Coaches Film: Bears Game

[threelittleturds]

Yeah, while I have supported him and still will if he plays, I never was ok with missing open receivers in an offense he's an "expert" in and knows the defense. I was ok with him not forcing even semi-covered receivers, knowing that the coaches emphasized both high percentage passes and protecting the ball. But when we're losing LATE? Push!!!

Yep, but push smart too. The game was still winnable when Alex threw that bonehead INT late in the game, because he was pushing stupid.

Anyway, CK missed some stuff that I've came down hard on Alex for missing. I expect more from Alex as an 8 year vet, but... maybe I expect too much and am ignoring the obvious that it is impossible to see all things at once during a football snap.

 

[MHSL82]

Yep, but push smart too. The game was still winnable when Alex threw that bonehead INT late in the game, because he was pushing stupid.

Anyway, CK missed some stuff that I've came down hard on Alex for missing. I expect more from Alex as an 8 year vet, but... maybe I expect too much and am ignoring the obvious that it is impossible to see all things at once during a football snap.

I expect him to hit it most often and am disappointed when he doesn't, but sometimes people have to know the vantage point of the QB. It's not where we see it, the angle we see it, it's not clear headed like we are (we can focus and make less mental decisions through the play), etc. It doesn't excuse him, of course, since he is a professional, just saying it isn't that clear. For example, in the Seattle Moss play, perhaps he could and should have seen it, but multiple people from Niners.com were analyzing it from a different point of time than when he would have to have seen it in order to get it there. I'm not sure about here because we didn't discuss it THAT much on this board. SOME (not all) people acted like he could have seen him wave and then throw it, no trouble.

I won't use the "every QB misses" excuse, because he misses often enough that it's a concern (though I don't know the average frequency of all QBs of missing) and also, some misses are worse than others and must be evaluated individually.

ChrisPozz lamented the access to ALL-22 to lay fans, not to you specifically, but there is a trouble making some people who know nothing think they know something. I think you are good and fair about it, so I don't think he was talking about you and definitely not everyone who uses it. I think you have been fair in your expectations, presentation of the facts, etc. I don't think you post like you have a stake in either QB failing, so you're good with me, as most everyone is here on this filtered board.

 

[dredinis21]

My one gripe with Kaep that I feel will bite him and the team in the ass if he doesn't fix quickly is that he seemed to lock onto receivers instead of going through his progressions. To me, it either seemed as if he was locked on a guy or was really slow to go to his second read. What made it easier is that the Bears (surprisingly) didn't really throw this first time starter any defensive wrinkles aside from one play that I remember that confused Kaep when they went from showing all out blitz to a two deep zone and he ended up getting sacked. I feel that these are growing pains that the Niners either have to commit to enduring in exchange for the explosive vertical passing or allow Smith to start if they feel that this is too much to overcome in their ball control offense.

Because in one game we went from 29th to 21st in passing over 20 yds, because in 3 games Smith threw passes past 20 yds 3 times while Kaep did it 4 times in ONE game, I would continue to roll with Kaep with the understanding that this kid is still pretty raw and will likely make more mistakes but ultimately net us bigger plays.

 

[threelittleturds]

Smith completed the same route to VD vs. New Orleans - granted, not with a defender in his face, but I explained that in my earlier post.

The play you speak of, there is a 3rd Saint off camera to form the triangle that mirrors the CK pass I've highlighted.

 

[Bemular]

The play you speak of, there is a 3rd Saint off camera to form the triangle that mirrors the CK pass I've highlighted.

Yeppers - dips in behind the LB (or NB) and just in front of the safety

 

[Kinzu]

I'm getting nervous about Kaep starting. You read and listen to all the so called experts, and they keep pointing out how easy the Bears defense made it for Kaep to have that game. They made it to easy for him to read man-coverage and their blitz package. Even though the Saints statistically are a worst Defense they will not be so vanilla in their coverages.

I also noticed when watching the game again the other night that Kaep seem to stare down his first read at times and I kept wondering how that never led to an interception from the so called best D at getting turnovers.

I'm worried at how Kaep will do against more zone blitzes and cover 2 looks from the Defense. The Bears for whatever reason just thought they could out play us physically which turned out to be a huge mistake. If Kaep starts I am little worried a bad game might be coming, but this is why I agree with starting him. The team needs to see how he handles the road and a trickier defense. Even if he does well I'm not sure they should name him the starter going into the playoffs though, but if he does well it gives everyone some insurance in case Alex goes down again.

 

[threelittleturds]

My one gripe with Kaep that I feel will bite him and the team in the ass if he doesn't fix quickly is that he seemed to lock onto receivers instead of going through his progressions. To me, it either seemed as if he was locked on a guy or was really slow to go to his second read. What made it easier is that the Bears (surprisingly) didn't really throw this first time starter any defensive wrinkles aside from one play that I remember that confused Kaep when they went from showing all out blitz to a two deep zone and he ended up getting sacked. I feel that these are growing pains that the Niners either have to commit to enduring in exchange for the explosive vertical passing or allow Smith to start if they feel that this is too much to overcome in their ball control offense.

Because in one game we went from 29th to 21st in passing over 20 yds, because in 3 games Smith threw passes past 20 yds 3 times while Kaep did it 4 times in ONE game, I would continue to roll with Kaep with the understanding that this kid is still pretty raw and will likely make more mistakes but ultimately net us bigger plays.

Smith locked into WRs too, and that one play you're talking about.. locking in wasn't the problem, absolutely nobody was open. If you'd like I could take pictures to prove that, but believe me, CK had nowhere to go and a 4 man rush beat 6 man protection. I don't know who it was for the Bears but he beat Iupati and Gore to get into CK's face super fast... that dude made an amazing play.

 

[MHSL82]

Smith completed the same route to VD vs. New Orleans - granted, not with a defender in his face, but I explained that in my earlier post.

Oh ok, duh on my part. You're right. We could have gone to overtime, so a conservative approach could have been ok, but Smith did feel it was worth the risk then. I don't think he does it unless he feels he needs to, Kaep did it when he didn't need to. I think Alex can make almost every throw, but he either doesn't do it consistently or he doesn't try often. And of course, he isn't the best at doing it, either.

Thanks for pointing that play out again (I must have skipped your previous post).

 

[Bemular]

Oh ok, duh on my part. You're right. We could have gone to overtime, so a conservative approach could have been ok, but Smith did feel it was worth the risk then. I don't think he does it unless he feels he needs to, Kaep did it when he didn't need to. I think Alex can make almost every throw, but he either doesn't do it consistently or he doesn't try often.

Thanks for pointing that play out again, I missed it perhaps because of the angle of the snapshot. It looked risky as opposed to on target from the Kaep view.

When you view as much film as I do you tend to remember plays. As for Smith making all the throws, of course he can make all the throws - he just needs bigger windows than QB's with stronger arms.

 

[Kinzu]

Alex has been more conservative under Harbaugh than he was in the years prior. I would actually say he has been less willing to throw deep since the shoulder surgery. I don't know if that injury affected his arm strength or anything because he would never use it as an excuse, but I do remember him back when we had no receivers capable catching a football trying to hit them on deep routes.

He also threw deep a good bit in his return game against the Texans a couple of years ago.

I think with Alex it's gotten to be more about keeping the offense on the field and taking the safe plays. He kept saying during the offseason he knew he needed to take more chances deep, but when he gets into the game he is more content with taking the open underneath route than waiting to see if the deep route will be open. That could be due to Harbaugh's coaching or it could be because Alex realized he started to have more success and less turnovers with that approach.

Despite what he says I think games like the one against the Giants do affect him. He tried to force some passes in that game and it led to 3 turnovers. It just seems like his comfort level is with the short to intermediate passes. He won't let one fly deep unless it's wide open from the start or the situation and play call is good for it.

 

[threelittleturds]

Alex has been more conservative under Harbaugh than he was in the years prior. I would actually say he has been less willing to throw deep since the shoulder surgery. I don't know if that injury affected his arm strength or anything because he would never use it as an excuse, but I do remember him back when we had no receivers capable catching a football trying to hit them on deep routes.

He also threw deep a good bit in his return game against the Texans a couple of years ago.

I think with Alex it's gotten to be more about keeping the offense on the field and taking the safe plays. He kept saying during the offseason he knew he needed to take more chances deep, but when he gets into the game he is more content with taking the open underneath route than waiting to see if the deep route will be open. That could be due to Harbaugh's coaching or it could be because Alex realized he started to have more success and less turnovers with that approach.

Despite what he says I think games like the one against the Giants do affect him. He tried to force some passes in that game and it led to 3 turnovers. It just seems like his comfort level is with the short to intermediate passes. He won't let one fly deep unless it's wide open from the start or the situation and play call is good for it.

Alex was fucked under Nolan and even more by Singletary. Let's not forget Singletary's offense... "Hey everyone, we're running on first and second down, and if you do stop us Alex has to bail us out"... I dare you to stop Alex from completing a pass to Battle, Jackson, Bruce, etc... long list of nobodies...

Singletary didn't allow Smith to be conservative... Sing was like, hey asshole I stacked the deck against you by telling everyone I wanted to run 90% of the time on 1st and 2nd down... now bail my arrogant ass out by completing 3rd and long..... What, you can't??? I better go with Carr or Troy....

Back to Nolan, he did good by Alex and so did McCarthy... those are two magnificent OCs... HC, meh, not so much, but OC... very good. Those two set him up to succeed.

Anyway, bottom line, the 1st time owners, coaches, and GMs, absolutely ruined Alex Smith. And he still busted his ass, so I'll always love the guy... but I won't let my love get in the way of my opinion that CK does it better.

 

[arsenal6106]

Quality thread 3LB.

 

[dredinis21]

Smith locked into WRs too, and that one play you're talking about.. locking in wasn't the problem, absolutely nobody was open. If you'd like I could take pictures to prove that, but believe me, CK had nowhere to go and a 4 man rush beat 6 man protection. I don't know who it was for the Bears but he beat Iupati and Gore to get into CK's face super fast... that dude made an amazing play.

Three, I'm not doubting Smith locking onto WRs, I grade each QB independently of each other as opposed to comparing because I feel as if that's when bullshit brews.

As far as the play I mentioned, I don't need you to show pics, I knew he had nowhere to go, but my point was more about the fact that it was the one play that looked disguised initially that truly looked to affect Kaep, making him look tentative or confused. I remember watching the play, focusing on the WR to the bottom of the screen and watching how covered they were. My point was more about how he froze. They showed 7 rushing, only rushed 4 and dropped three into coverage and sat in a zone (not counting secondary on this play as they sat in a zone). Kaep made no move to avoid the rush, just seemed to sit down in the pocket at the point where it was starting to collapse. In other plays, if the pocket collapsed, you would see him move laterally or step up. It just looked as if the play confused him, hence my reasoning for bringing it up.

As far as staring targets down, he seemed to do it quite a bit...moreso then Smith if we are comparing but I have to also mention the fact that I am in favor of Kaep starting ahead of Smith as well.

 

[dredinis21]

I love Smith for the sole fact that he could have bitched and moaned his entire tenure in SF, from shitty teams to shitty coaches...but he didn't. He just continued to work hard, continued to keep his focus and was always about the team first. For that, I think ALL Niner fans should show respect towards him.

That being said, like you said Three, I just think that CK does it better and I am ready to usher in a new era of Forty Niner football with CK at the helm.

 

[MHSL82]

I love Smith for the sole fact that he could have bitched and moaned his entire tenure in SF, from shitty teams to shitty coaches...but he didn't. He just continued to work hard, continued to keep his focus and was always about the team first. For that, I think ALL Niner fans should show respect towards him.

Brady Quinn and Matt Leinart and maybe Troy Smith should take lessons from Smith.

Leinart would likely have played again, thus had an opportunity with the Cardinals (I don't count the one half with the Houstons in which he got injured as much of a chance), if he didn't pout his way to being traded to a team with a relatively established QB. If he studied the game and the playbook, was respectful, etc. he might have gone somewhere else besides behind Palmer again after his stint in Houston. Seattle? But then again, I feel Leinart was and is comfortable as a backup - something that say what you will about Alex, he isn't. He didn't leave to be a steady backup to Rivers, reunited with Norv.

Brady Quinn just seemed douchey when he made the comments about Tebow - everyone can assume he felt that way, to say it didn't seem smart. There was something else he said about Cassel this season that seemed to be immature.

As far as Troy Smith goes, stay here during the bye with a receiver or two like Alex did when he was the backup in the bye. None of this, "just fax me" stuff. He played one week and he needed a break? (Yes, I know, he was practicing the whole season.) I've never seen Alex yell at a coach like Troy did, but I see some passion to play as a good thing to an extent. (And I know Alex didn't like all of his coaches.)

It's hard to be disciplined, but it should be learned. Everything else as a QB is hard, why not just one more thing?

 

[threelittleturds]

Three, I'm not doubting Smith locking onto WRs, I grade each QB independently of each other as opposed to comparing because I feel as if that's when bullshit brews.

As far as the play I mentioned, I don't need you to show pics, I knew he had nowhere to go, but my point was more about the fact that it was the one play that looked disguised initially that truly looked to affect Kaep, making him look tentative or confused. I remember watching the play, focusing on the WR to the bottom of the screen and watching how covered they were. My point was more about how he froze. They showed 7 rushing, only rushed 4 and dropped three into coverage and sat in a zone (not counting secondary on this play as they sat in a zone). Kaep made no move to avoid the rush, just seemed to sit down in the pocket at the point where it was starting to collapse. In other plays, if the pocket collapsed, you would see him move laterally or step up. It just looked as if the play confused him, hence my reasoning for bringing it up.

As far as staring targets down, he seemed to do it quite a bit...moreso then Smith if we are comparing but I have to also mention the fact that I am in favor of Kaep starting ahead of Smith as well.

I know, at the time I said Kaep should have thrown it out the back of the endzone to avoid a sack... and a couple guys disagreed with me and said he did the right thing by taking the sack.

The Bears did confuse him on that play, I would never argue that buddy. But honestly, every QB would fail under that... I mean really, you'd be a fool not to recognize when that bunch lines up to rush the passer. Thats a lot of Pro Bowl talent, and maybe 3 out of 7 HOF talent.. you have to respect that group when they come after the QB.

 

[beardown07]

You guys are pretty serious on here....not one comment on the funniest game preview ever?

 

[iHATEdodgers]

I know, at the time I said Kaep should have thrown it out the back of the endzone to avoid a sack... and a couple guys disagreed with me and said he did the right thing by taking the sack.

The Bears did confuse him on that play, I would never argue that buddy. But honestly, every QB would fail under that... I mean really, you'd be a fool not to recognize when that bunch lines up to rush the passer. Thats a lot of Pro Bowl talent, and maybe 3 out of 7 HOF talent.. you have to respect that group when they come after the QB.

This is a great thread! Every post has been solid. I think what dre is saying is that on the only play where the Bears did anything remotely fancy on D, Kaep looked confused and took a sack. There was nowhere to go of course, but he didn't hightail it out of the pocket either he just took a sack.

I don't know if it was the sneaky D or just the fact that everyone was covered (maybe the only play all game for both) but it does make me wonder if Kaep is going to have problems ferreting out what the D is doing when they don't line up vanilla every down.

If he starts tomorrow we should know pretty quick. I'm hopeful he plays well.

 

[zman1527]

Probably my favorite play of the game, with Briggs in his face he just slings it into that tight window to VD on 3rd down and 12. A lot better than throwing 5 yard passes on 3rd and long.

Nice post and interesting stuff. Kap looked great and is obviously our future.

This pass to VD looks like a mistake to me, throwing into triple coverage. yeah, he got it but was it a good decision?

Pretty amazing that almost everyone is ready to throw Alex under the bus right away. I agree that Kap has way more physical ability and looked incredibly good. But AS had us in the SB last year w/o the two fumbles, and we likely would have won there. This year we are on track to be in great playoff position again. It just looks like an unnecessary risk to change now when Kap is so likely to make young QB mistakes. I trust Harbs for the most part, but a little worried about this move if he makes it.

 

[EKmane]

Smith completed the same route to VD vs. New Orleans - granted, not with a defender in his face, but I explained that in my earlier post.

And also part of having the "same arm" as Kaep includes the precise touch the Kaep possesses. Smith won't make a throw with a defender close because his touch is sparatic, he's scared of risking a pick, Kaep knows he can drop it in a spot whre only the wr has an opportunity to make the catch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ7xfvFgZ1E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=tQbO0DmVen4&feature=endscreen

skip to 7:45 for Colin's touch.