Coach Saban wasn't that great...

[TrustMeIamRight]

Well as a Michigan man, I will give you the benefit of the doubt about what constitutes a mediocre B1G coach...y'all certainly have enough personal experience lately to judge.

We had mediocre coaches for the better part of a decade, prior to hiring Harbaugh. So yeah, we have quite a bit of experience.

 

[Mike30142]

FOURTEEN 5 star recruits signed from the state of Alabama. ONE from the state of Michigan.

If you'd like to go a step further -- I only went back 6 years as I didn't have time to go back further -- I can do so later if you'd like. Alabama has signed 20 top 100 recruits from the state of Alabama in the last 6 years. Michigan has had 5 top 100 recruits from the state of Michigan.

Comparing the two states is pointless. The quality of players out of the state of Alabama is light years better than Michigan. It is one of my points as to why I said Saban couldn't do what Dantonio did at MSU. He'd never get the recruiting classes at MSU.

I don't really care but I'm guessing Bama does have more top 100 recruits than Michigan. But, is there a possibility that more top 100 recruits from Michigan didn't sign with Michigan? Did some go to OSU?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Congrats, you've used multiple years and managed to name about 10% of the players on the team.

Yes, we get great players and recruiting is a huge part of our success. Duh. You just don't have a remote fucking clue as to WHY Alabama gets them.

You made the comment about Bama recruits going to the NFL and they weren't all 5 star guys -- I just named the guys from the last year or two. If there was a walk on or 2 star guy Saban brought in and developed into a high NFL pick. List them.

And I agree wholeheartedly on recruiting being a huge reason for Bama's success. It is EXACTLY why I've said repeatedly. Very good coach, but a great coach in the SEC. Also the same reason I said he couldn't do at MSU what Dantonio has done -- his recruiting classes wouldn't come near the talent he gets at Bama.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I don't really care but I'm guessing Bama does have more top 100 recruits than Michigan. But, is there a possibility that more top 100 recruits from Michigan didn't sign with Michigan? Did some go to OSU?

Two guys. Damon Webb and Mike Weber.

 

[Rolltide94]

We had mediocre coaches for the better part of a decade, prior to hiring Harbaugh. So yeah, we have quite a bit of experience.

I don't know, 3rd out of 7 teams, two years in a row seems like a trend...a mediocre trend.

 

[4down20]

You made the comment about Bama recruits going to the NFL and they weren't all 5 star guys -- I just named the guys from the last year or two. If there was a walk on or 2 star guy Saban brought in and developed into a high NFL pick. List them.

And I agree wholeheartedly on recruiting being a huge reason for Bama's success. It is EXACTLY why I've said repeatedly. Very good coach, but a great coach in the SEC. Also the same reason I said he couldn't do at MSU what Dantonio has done -- his recruiting classes wouldn't come near the talent he gets at Bama.

You're an idiot.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You're an idiot.

All I did was respond to your comment. Feel free to list all diamond in the rough recruits Saban has taken from unknown to a high NFL draft pick at Bama. The guys being drafted lately seem to be overwhelmingly 5 star and top 100 recruits.

It just emphasizes what I've said repeatedly. Great recruiter. The most talented team in CFB by a landslide. Very good coach, but when given the advantages the SEC provides, he is great.

This past year -- Alabama had 23 5 star recruits (or roughly 25% of their scholarship players). The other 3 teams in the CFP had 10 COMBINED.

Every year Bama has, by far, the most talent. The fact they have only won 1 of 3 CFP's is a laughable.

 

[7Samurai13]

Is Harbaugh a good coach if he is 0-6 for conference or division titles in FBS college, a 2-2 bowl record and has only finished better than third in his division once? He also has huge built in advantages at Michigan over everyone else in the conference not named Ohio State. He had two top 10 classes on roster when he stepped into Ann Arbor.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I don't know, 3rd out of 7 teams, two years in a row seems like a trend...a mediocre trend.

No doubt. But when you look at how bad UM was when Harbaugh took over -- going from 11 wins to 8 wins to 7 wins to 5 wins under Brady Hoke and taking over a team whose best QB on the roster was Shane Morris. Winning 10 games in back to back seasons is great. Last year was a disappointment, losing 3 games by 5 total points, but not much you can do when your QB struggles like he did.

This year, IMO, it will be much of the same. I see 8, maybe 9 wins. Starting 17 new starters -- there will be a ton of question marks. 2018 and every year going forward, 10 wins should be the floor for expectations as UM will have removed all of Hoke's recruits and Harbaugh will have his own.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Is Harbaugh a good coach if he is 0-6 for conference or division titles in FBS college, a 2-2 bowl record and has only finished better than third in his division once? He also has huge built in advantages at Michigan over everyone else in the conference not named Ohio State. He had two top 10 classes on roster when he stepped into Ann Arbor.

You continue to talk about the two top 10 classes and we've went over this. The guys who made those classes so highly ranked -- Derrick Green, Shane Morris, Patrick Kugler, David Dawson, Chris Fox, Ondre Pipkins, etc. flopped because of a piss poor coaching staff.

UM had no QB and an OL with experience, but wasn't very good. In two years, we started started a backup QB from Iowa and Wilton Speight (who started 4th on the QB depth chart in Harbaugh's 1st year)

The defense did its job. They gave up 11 to Iowa and 3 points in regulation to OSU. As a MSU fan, I'd think you would know how badly poor QB play can hurt a team. That is what killed us last year.

That being said -- UM went from 5 wins to 10 wins in back to back seasons -- finishing 12th and 10th in the country. I'm quite happy with that.

 

[7Samurai13]

You continue to talk about the two top 10 classes and we've went over this. The guys who made those classes so highly ranked -- Derrick Green, Shane Morris, Patrick Kugler, David Dawson, Chris Fox, Ondre Pipkins, etc. flopped because of a piss poor coaching staff.

UM had no QB and an OL with experience, but wasn't very good. In two years, we started started a backup QB from Iowa and Wilton Speight (who started 4th on the QB depth chart in Harbaugh's 1st year)

The defense did its job. They gave up 11 to Iowa and 3 points in regulation to OSU. As a MSU fan, I'd think you would know how badly poor QB play can hurt a team. That is what killed us last year.

That being said -- UM went from 5 wins to 10 wins in back to back seasons -- finishing 12th and 10th in the country. I'm quite happy with that.

So having top classes only counts if your Alabama but don't count when your Michigan. You just had ELEVEN PLAYERS drafted from those classes this year. More than Ohio State and more than Alabama. There was talent on the team when Harbaugh got there so why do you keep pretending there wasn't and we need to put the kid gloves on for Harbaugh for the next decade until he gets all of his guys in? I have never heard "wait til he gets his guys in" as much as I have from Michigan fans and their coaches. We were told by MICHIGAN FANS that Hoke and Harbaugh run similar systems so it should have been seamless integration, now we have to wait 4, 5, 6 years to actually judge Harbaugh?

 

[outofyourmind]

Is Harbaugh a good coach if he is 0-6 for conference or division titles in FBS college, a 2-2 bowl record and has only finished better than third in his division once? He also has huge built in advantages at Michigan over everyone else in the conference not named Ohio State. He had two top 10 classes on roster when he stepped into Ann Arbor.

So having top classes only counts if your Alabama but don't count when your Michigan. You just had ELEVEN PLAYERS drafted from those classes this year. More than Ohio State and more than Alabama. There was talent on the team when Harbaugh got there so why do you keep pretending there wasn't and we need to put the kid gloves on for Harbaugh for the next decade until he gets all of his guys in? I have never heard "wait til he gets his guys in" as much as I have from Michigan fans and their coaches. We were told by MICHIGAN FANS that Hoke and Harbaugh run similar systems so it should have been seamless integration, now we have to wait 4, 5, 6 years to actually judge Harbaugh?

This guy said it best in the wrong thread.

College Football History is littered with Coaches that were given all the tools and never made anything happen.

#amirite or what

 

[Rolltide94]

No doubt. But when you look at how bad UM was when Harbaugh took over -- going from 11 wins to 8 wins to 7 wins to 5 wins under Brady Hoke and taking over a team whose best QB on the roster was Shane Morris. Winning 10 games in back to back seasons is great. Last year was a disappointment, losing 3 games by 5 total points, but not much you can do when your QB struggles like he did.

This year, IMO, it will be much of the same. I see 8, maybe 9 wins. Starting 17 new starters -- there will be a ton of question marks. 2018 and every year going forward, 10 wins should be the floor for expectations as UM will have removed all of Hoke's recruits and Harbaugh will have his own.

Or maybe Harbaugh is just a mediocre coach at the college level. Maybe he needs the built in advantages of the NFL where you can pay to get better players. I mean, he really hasn't had much success as a coach outside of the NFC West. He had one good season at Stanford, thanks to Andrew Luck, but didn't even win the conference. I mean yes, he had some success at San Diego, but shit, get real, Pioneer League, that is just a glorified high school league.

 

[7Samurai13]

This guy said it best in the wrong thread.




#amirite or what

Well stop being like @AlaskaGuy and start posting shit in the right places.

 

[outofyourmind]

Well stop being like @AlaskaGuy and start posting shit in the right places.

Hey
It was in the college football forum.

 

[7Samurai13]

Hey
It was in the college football forum.

Are you sure this isn't the political forum? I hear that's where all the best college football discussions happen.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Or maybe Harbaugh is just a mediocre coach at the college level. Maybe he needs the built in advantages of the NFL where you can pay to get better players. I mean, he really hasn't had much success as a coach outside of the NFC West. He had one good season at Stanford, thanks to Andrew Luck, but didn't even win the conference. I mean yes, he had some success at San Diego, but shit, get real, Pioneer League, that is just a glorified high school league.

Could be. History suggests otherwise, as he set school records for wins in a season at both San Diego and Stanford. He won two conference titles at SD -- a school who had never won a conference title the previous 50+ years. He took one of the worst teams in all of CFB, Stanford from 1-11 to 12-1 and a top 5 ranking.

He took SF, who hadn't had a winning record in a decade and won 2 division titles and a conference crown in 4 years.

Having one good season would be like someone taking over a program like say -- Michigan State coming off a 6 win season and after 4 years they'd still be the same 6-6 team. Then winning 9, before going back to the normal 7-5 to 5-7 team.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

So having top classes only counts if your Alabama but don't count when your Michigan. You just had ELEVEN PLAYERS drafted from those classes this year. More than Ohio State and more than Alabama. There was talent on the team when Harbaugh got there so why do you keep pretending there wasn't and we need to put the kid gloves on for Harbaugh for the next decade until he gets all of his guys in? I have never heard "wait til he gets his guys in" as much as I have from Michigan fans and their coaches. We were told by MICHIGAN FANS that Hoke and Harbaugh run similar systems so it should have been seamless integration, now we have to wait 4, 5, 6 years to actually judge Harbaugh?

No doubt. UM's defense played great all year. Speight killed us after injuring his shoulder against Iowa, but he was our best option. The ELEVEN GUYS did their job -- one guy didn't. Darboh, Chesson and Butt can't throw the ball to themselves. The defense gave up 11 to Iowa and 3 points in regulation to OSU.

And I don't know what MICHIGAN FANS said it'd be seamless. UM only had depth on the DL and CB. We had an average, at best, OL and lacked a quality RB. When De'Veon Smith is your starting RB, because he is the best RB in pass pro -- it tells you how much they trusted the OL.

I'm very happy with where UM is at right now. I'm going to enjoy watching the MSU game every year going forward. And the OSU game will go back to being one of the best games of the year.

 

[Rolltide94]

\

Having one good season would be like someone taking over a program like say -- Michigan State coming off a 6 win season and after 4 years they'd still be the same 6-6 team. Then winning 9, before going back to the normal 7-5 to 5-7 team.

Or it could be like taking over a Stanford team, that yes, was 1-11, the season prior, but who had averaged almost 5 wins a season for the 10 years prior to that and going 4-8, then 5-7, then 8-5, which incidentally averages out to less than 6 wins a year...then finally going 12-1, with the #1 draft choice, finishing 2nd in your conference and bolting for greener pastures...only to see your coordinator get promoted to your job and eclipse everything you accomplished there.

Damn, Harbaugh sounds a lot like Saban...minus the 5 championships and 3 CFB playoff appearances that is.

 

[4down20]

Or it could be like taking over a Stanford team, that yes, was 1-11, the season prior, but who had averaged almost 5 wins a season for the 10 years prior to that and going 4-8, then 5-7, then 8-5, which incidentally averages out to less than 6 wins a year...then finally going 12-1, with the #1 draft choice, finishing 2nd in your conference and bolting for greener pastures...only to see your coordinator get promoted to your job and eclipse everything you accomplished there.

Damn, Harbaugh sounds a lot like Saban...minus the 5 championships and 3 CFB playoff appearances that is.

Inb4 he gives Harbaugh all the credit for Shaw.