Closers All Time 2 - 10

[blstoker]

Overall Career or at their peak?

Career:
Mo
Smith
Hoffman
Fingers
Franco
Eckersley
Reardon
Wagner
Nathan
Papelbon

Peak:
Eckersley
Mo
Gagne
Kimbrel
Mesa
KRod
Fingers
Quisenberry
Montgomery
Smoltz

 

[Nosferatu]

Overall Career or at their peak?

Career:
Mo
Smith
Hoffman
Fingers
Franco
Eckersley
Reardon
Wagner
Nathan
Papelbon

Peak:
Eckersley
Mo
Gagne
Kimbrel
Mesa
KRod
Fingers
Quisenberry
Montgomery
Smoltz

you dont have Wagner in peak? Oh, cuz his peak was his career, gotcha!

 

[blstoker]

you dont have Wagner in peak? Oh, cuz his peak was his career, gotcha!

No, because from the time it took me to list the career and list the peaks, I forgot about him....He should at least replace Smoltz.

 

[Nosferatu]

No, because from the time it took me to list the career and list the peaks, I forgot about him....He should at least replace Smoltz.

He should be much higher than that.

 

[blstoker]

He should be much higher than that.

I agree, but I'm currently working on limited sleep here and just not wanting to think where that higher really is. Probably right above Mesa (who is so precarious where he is because his peak was so short).

 

[StanMarsh51]

Overall Career or at their peak?

Career:
Mo
Smith
Hoffman
Fingers
Franco
Eckersley
Reardon
Wagner
Nathan
Papelbon

Peak:
Eckersley
Mo
Gagne
Kimbrel
Mesa
KRod
Fingers
Quisenberry
Montgomery
Smoltz

For peak, I think there's a good amount of non-listed guys I'd put over Mesa and maybe K-Rod (who saved a lot of games, but was very shaky)...Nathan, Papelbon, Lidge, Hoffman, Wetteland, Foulke, Nen.

 

[blstoker]

For peak, I think there's a good amount of non-listed guys I'd put over Mesa and maybe K-Rod (who saved a lot of games, but was very shaky)...Nathan, Papelbon, Lidge, Hoffman, Wetteland, Foulke, Nen.

Mesa's peak was short, which is why after adding Wagner, he's ranked 6th. Yes, 1 season isn't all that impressive - but his 1995 season was one of the best any closer has put together - possibly top 3, maybe top 5.

Francisco Rodriguez always gets discounted because he is perceived to have just gotten saves in sheer numbers, but his overall numbers are more than impressive. Just be happy it was Rodriguez instead of Bobby Thigpen.

As was said to Nos, I was putting this list together off the top of my head with very little sleep, so I forgot some players. Also, I didn't want to make it too heavy with recent players, so I added the three on the bottom, none of which probably should be on the peaks list. But, I will address the ones you listed specifically.

Nathan - yeah, sure. He should be on the list - his '04-'09 seasons are pretty good, and would be higher than Mesa.

Papelbon - Again, yeah, should be on the list for his - '06-'09 seasons. I'd put him higher than Mesa as well, though only because his '06 season is one of the few I would say was better than Mesa's '95.

Lidge - Lidge was way up and way down. He could get a multi season peak with '04-'05, but his overall numbers those years don't scream kick Mesa off the list. Other than that he had a great year in '08, and everything else ranges from mediocre to atrocious.

Hoffman - He had a magnificent 2 season peak in '98-'99, but his real strength as a closer comes from the fact he was solid at the role for a decade and a half. He'd be higher than KRod, but not sure about Mesa.

Foulke - He was a lot like Hoffman in that he would have a really descent 2 year peak, but otherwise he was just pretty consistent. But, his 2 year peak wasn't nearly as good as Hoffman's, and he only closed for 4 years (at least full time).

Nen - No. His peak is just so hard to nail down. He had 3 really good individual seasons - none as good as Mesa's - but he sandwiched horrible seasons in between them, so they really can't be combined together to create a long term peak. his peaks were high - valleys low, and from season to season you got either or.


So, even adjusting for the 6 you listed, I don't think I would take Mesa off the list - or KRod for that matter.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

any career list with eckersley is just wrong!!! he had peak... but 4 good(2 GREAT) relief seasons doesnt make a great career closer...

 

[blstoker]

any career list with eckersley is just wrong!!! he had peak... but 4 good(2 GREAT) relief seasons doesnt make a great career closer...

Interesting opinion.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Interesting opinion.

Milky never saw him play.....

 

[blstoker]

Milky never saw him play.....

I like milk well enough, but we're pretty much on opposite ends of every opinion.....

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Milky never saw him play.....

No, but why does that matter?? He only had 2 Great closer seasons, if we are separating Peak players with career players then how can he be in career??

 

[UK Cowboy]

No, but why does that matter?? He only had 2 Great closer seasons, if we are separating Peak players with career players then how can he be in career??

Milk, saying Eck wasn't a top 10 closer is absurd. It's like saying Earl Campbell wasn't an all time great running back. At some point, you have to quit looking in a stat book and simply watch a game.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Milk, saying Eck wasn't a top 10 closer is absurd. It's like saying Earl Campbell wasn't an all time great running back. At some point, you have to quit looking in a stat book and simply watch a game.

Didn't say he wasn't a top 10 reliever... On the first page Nos, did not mention RP like Hoyt wilhelm, because he was not a "closer"... so then we are to assume that this whole thread is only for closers, and not for RP... then when we started differentiating between peak and career, how can you include a pitcher whose career as closer was ONLY his peak and only 4 seasons, with ONLY 2 great ones...

 

[UK Cowboy]

Didn't say he wasn't a top 10 reliever... On the first page Nos, did not mention RP like Hoyt wilhelm, because he was not a "closer"... so then we are to assume that this whole thread is only for closers, and not for RP... then when we started differentiating between peak and career, how can you include a pitcher whose career as closer was ONLY his peak and only 4 seasons, with ONLY 2 great ones...

Milk, go find the written opinion of the players he played against, managers he played against, GM's, scouts, whoever you want, the consensus will always be that Eck wasn't just top 5, usually top 3, and if not for Mo, might be considered the GOAT. Not sure how you can contradict that

 

[Clayton]

1. Mo
2. Eck
3. Hoffman

Debatable after that for me. I'd put Kimbrel 4th and maybe KRod 5th.

 

[Nosferatu]

1. Mo
2. Eck
3. Hoffman

Debatable after that for me. I'd put Kimbrel 4th and maybe KRod 5th.

I gotta put Wagner in there somewhere, I like Hoffman but I think i'd take Wagner over him and I know i'd take Wagner over KRod. I also don't think Henke gets enough love...

 

[Clayton]

I gotta put Wagner in there somewhere, I like Hoffman but I think i'd take Wagner over him and I know i'd take Wagner over KRod. I also don't think Henke gets enough love...

I think my top 4 is etched in. The more I think about KRod, the more Im slipping on him. I believe the Brewers used him as a set up guy in the 8th and he was really good but thats a downgrade from closer. Hoffman is closer to 2 than having anyone beat him. I think people lose track of how good his career was.

This might sound odd but Id take Trevor Rosenthal over Lee Smith. Lee Smith was just a guy who was good for a really, really long time but never great. Id also probably not have Rosenthal in my top 15 so...yeah..not super high on Lee Smith.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Milk, go find the written opinion of the players he played against, managers he played against, GM's, scouts, whoever you want, the consensus will always be that Eck wasn't just top 5, usually top 3, and if not for Mo, might be considered the GOAT. Not sure how you can contradict that

Again, you are misunderstanding my argument... If we are differentiating Peak and career, then how can you put Eck on the career list... We are not talking about who you would WANT more, it is who had the better "CLOSER" career... Nos made a point of it right away that the likes of Hoyt Wilhelm should not be listed because he was not a closer, Eckersley was only a "closer" for 9 seasons and had a 5 season peak... outside those 5 seasons he was either a SP or just not a good closer...

If we are differentiating career with peak, how does that make him top 10?? and you guys have him top 3...

Now, if you are only making one list, then fine, but if you are making a career and a peak list then he should not be in the career list... And realize, i originally made the comment during the whole peak season conversation....

 

[UK Cowboy]

Again, you are misunderstanding my argument... If we are differentiating Peak and career, then how can you put Eck on the career list... We are not talking about who you would WANT more, it is who had the better "CLOSER" career... Nos made a point of it right away that the likes of Hoyt Wilhelm should not be listed because he was not a closer, Eckersley was only a "closer" for 9 seasons and had a 5 season peak... outside those 5 seasons he was either a SP or just not a good closer...

If we are differentiating career with peak, how does that make him top 10?? and you guys have him top 3...

Now, if you are only making one list, then fine, but if you are making a career and a peak list then he should not be in the career list... And realize, i originally made the comment during the whole peak season conversation....

Man I get what you are saying, here's what I know...you take all the guys that have ever closed a game, pick the best team you could, Eck is one of the top 5 guys you're looking at as closer