Cleveland Game

[Darrell Green Fan]

I can't believe this Trent Murphy thing is still going on. To me it's pretty clear that up until this year Dean was correct. In his first 2 years he demonstrated nothing other than "just a guy" status. Sure players need time to develop but a 2nd round pick should not be entering year 3 as "just a guy", they need to show the promise that Preston Smith did his first year.

But all that has changed this season and yeah Dean does bring a lot of this on himself by not acknowledging Murphy's play. But in fairness it's only been 4 games. And I will always defend a poster's right to come back years later and voice the same opinion they had on draft day. That's not Monday Morning Quarterbacking, it is backing up his initial opinion with more evidence. And he clearly appears to be correct on Long who is trending towards career backup status. But Dean does need to do a better job of admitting that (to date) his initial opinion is not being validated with Murphy's play.

As for Norman it is idiotic to put their record on him. How soon we forget just how crappy our secondary was just a few years ago.

 

[skinsdad62]

TM's career has been better then 2/3's of the 2nd rounders that were drafted with him coming INTO this season i am not sure what standard you have for a 2nd rounder but it must be way too high if a murphy isnt good enough when he equals or out performs his peers

 

[j_y19]

TM's career has been better then 2/3's of the 2nd rounders that were drafted with him coming INTO this season i am not sure what standard you have for a 2nd rounder but it must be way too high if a murphy isnt good enough when he equals or out performs his peers

This . DGF, dean's position has very little to do with Murphy and more to do with who we didn't draft at that position. He was adamant that we fucked up by not taking Moses in the second, even though we still got him. Ever since that draft, he has been out to prove that Murphy was a bad pick and he was right about moses. In a way, he was right about moses, as he is proving to be an adequate RT. But he went right where he should have. In fact, both Moses and Murphy are proving to be solid, not spectacular, picks.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

This . DGF, dean's position has very little to do with Murphy and more to do with who we didn't draft at that position. He was adamant that we fucked up by not taking Moses in the second, even though we still got him. Ever since that draft, he has been out to prove that Murphy was a bad pick and he was right about moses. In a way, he was right about moses, as he is proving to be an adequate RT. But he went right where he should have. In fact, both Moses and Murphy are proving to be solid, not spectacular, picks.

People need to get past complaining about who the Redskins didn't draft. Jeez - you could make this complaint against any NFL team & beyond that you can't undo anything so it is pretty much a waste of time. Just be happy that the Redskins are actually retaining draft picks & more recently doing a decent job at drafting for the most part.

 

[Breed]

I can't believe this Trent Murphy thing is still going on. To me it's pretty clear that up until this year Dean was correct. In his first 2 years he demonstrated nothing other than "just a guy" status. Sure players need time to develop but a 2nd round pick should not be entering year 3 as "just a guy", they need to show the promise that Preston Smith did his first year.

Redskins 2nd rd pk of the last 20 years
2016 - Sua Cravens - 53rd pk
2015 - Preston Smith - 38th pk
2014 - Trent Murphy - 47th pk
2013 - David Amerson - 51st pk
2012 - Didn't have a 2nd
2011 - Jarvis Jenkins 41 pk
2010 - Didn't have a 2nd
2009 - Didn't have a 2nd
2008 - Devin Thomas 34th, Fred Davis 48th, Malcolm Kelly 51st
2007 - Didn't have a 2nd
2006 - Roger "Rocky" McIntosh 35th pk
2005 - Didn't have a 2nd
2004 - Didn't have a 2nd
2003 - Taylor Jacobs 44th pk
2002 - LaDell Betts 56th pk
2001 - Fred Smoot 41st pk
2000 - Didn't have a 2nd
1999 - Jon Jansen - 37th pk
1998 - Stephen Alexander 48th pk
1997 - Greg Jones 51st pk

Who would you label successful 2nd rd pks from the selections above.?

Jon Jansen and, Fed Smoot would be the gold standard of 2nd rd Redskin picks of the last 20 years w/o question.

Rocky Mac, LaDell "Cornball" Betts and Stephen Alexander I'd label successes.

After that it gets hazy, hell, it was already a little cloudy before we got here. Believe it or not though, and I'm not 100% on this, but Fred "Sleepy" Davis might be the next most successful pick. If for no other reason than he was a Redskin technically for 6 seasons.

As it stands right now. Murphy, Smith and Cravens chances of surpassing Rocky Mac, Betts and Alexander. All of whom didn't do much after their Redskin days isn't crazy talk.

After 6 seasons with the Skins Rocky Mac played 2 more years for 2 different teams and his NFL career was over.

LaDell Betts played 8 seasons for the Redskins as a back up RB and KO ret man, but did have a 1157 yards rushing at 4.7 ypc in 2006. After his 8 year Redskin stint. Betts played 8 games with the Saints and his NFL career was over.

After 4 seasons with the Skins that includes being named a pro bowler in 1999. Stephen Alexander played another 5 years for 2 different teams and his NFL career was over,

 

[skinsdad62]

Redskins 2nd rd pk of the last 20 years
2016 - Sua Cravens - 53rd pk
2015 - Preston Smith - 38th pk
2014 - Trent Murphy - 47th pk
2013 - David Amerson - 51st pk
2012 - Didn't have a 2nd
2011 - Jarvis Jenkins 41 pk
2010 - Didn't have a 2nd
2009 - Didn't have a 2nd
2008 - Devin Thomas 34th, Fred Davis 48th, Malcolm Kelly 51st
2007 - Didn't have a 2nd
2006 - Roger "Rocky" McIntosh 35th pk
2005 - Didn't have a 2nd
2004 - Didn't have a 2nd
2003 - Taylor Jacobs 44th pk
2002 - LaDell Betts 56th pk
2001 - Fred Smoot 41st pk
2000 - Didn't have a 2nd
1999 - Jon Jansen - 37th pk
1998 - Stephen Alexander 48th pk
1997 - Greg Jones 51st pk

Who would you label successful 2nd rd pks from the selections above.?


Jon Jansen and, Fed Smoot would be the gold standard of 2nd rd Redskin picks of the last 20 years w/o question.

Rocky Mac, LaDell "Cornball" Betts and Stephen Alexander I'd label successes.

After that it gets hazy, hell, it was already a little cloudy before we got here. Believe it or not though, and I'm not 100% on this, but Fred "Sleepy" Davis might be the next most successful pick. If for no other reason than he was a Redskin technically for 6 seasons.

As it stands right now. Murphy, Smith and Cravens chances of surpassing Rocky Mac, Betts and Alexander. All of whom didn't do much after their Redskin days isn't crazy talk.

After 6 seasons with the Skins Rocky Mac played 2 more years for 2 different teams and his NFL career was over.

LaDell Betts played 8 seasons for the Redskins as a back up RB and KO ret man, but did have a 1157 yards rushing at 4.7 ypc in 2006. After his 8 year Redskin stint. Betts played 8 games with the Saints and his NFL career was over.

After 4 seasons with the Skins that includes being named a pro bowler in 1999. Stephen Alexander played another 5 years for 2 different teams and his NFL career was over,

there you have it he seems to be a fairly good pick

 

[Sportster 72]

I'll start it off if it helps .... I thought Russell Wilson was too short .... I was wwwrrroo ... I was wwwwrrrooooonn .... I was wrrroooonnnnnnnnnn ..... I was wwwwwwwwrrrroooooooooonnnnnnnnggggggggg

 

[skinsdad62]

hey i thought we could win with JC i was wrong then , i was wrong now , 50 years from now i will be wrong

 

[gkekoa]

I wasn't wrong on JC. I was wrong on Cam Newton and I was wrong on RG3 (after year 1). I have been very right on my fantasy team...that's right bitches.

 

[Krusheasy]

II have been very right on my fantasy team...that's right bitches.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Wait we are using the REDSKINS 2nd round draft history as if that is the norm? LMAO. How about we look at league wide stats which show consistent starters by position. To date Murphy has not been a consistent starter at LB which is why he was asked to change positions.

"2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)"

What stats tells us about the draft by round

 

[Sportster 72]

That articile was written almost two years ago but just a check on QBs suggest data isn't good or out of date:

Tyrod Taylor - 6th round
Trevor Simien - 7th round
Tony Romo - UDFA

I understand you may be just giving 2nd round data but just my initial thought about QBs and he was way off and I only researched two QBs, I knew Romo was undrafted.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Not sure what that post had to do with my link. My link showed complete league wide stats on 2nd round linebackers which is what Trent Murphy is. And that link showed my bar was not set too high.

Works much better than the argument "Well there you have it, he is better than Devon Thomas so obviously he was a good pick".

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

hey i thought we could win with JC i was wrong then , i was wrong now , 50 years from now i will be wrong

Yeah like Griffin I was one of the last JC supporters as well. Oh well, we are all wrong at times. Just need to be able to admit it later.

 

[j_y19]

Yeah like Griffin I was one of the last JC supporters as well. Oh well, we are all wrong at times. Just need to be able to admit it later.

And there is the rub........

 

[gkekoa]

Wait we are using the REDSKINS 2nd round draft history as if that is the norm? LMAO. How about we look at league wide stats which show consistent starters by position. To date Murphy has not been a consistent starter at LB which is why he was asked to change positions.

"2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)"

What stats tells usuff the draft by round

The only problem with that statistic is it doesn't show the success rate of 2nd round picks at LB. It shows where your typical starter comes from but not the success rate of the pick.
It also doesn't show when they are consistent starters. TM is in his third year and has started about half the games in his career.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Sure it does, a "consistent starter" is a pretty good way to measure a pick. But I don't mean to imply that those stats are the end all. Again they are measuring linebackers who became regular starters at some point in their careers and over half hit that level. But TM having only 2 seasons is not enough time to give a final grade on him.

But again to compare the pick with Redskins disastrous 2nd round picks of the past is a really dumb way to look at it.

 

[Breed]

But again to compare the pick with Redskins disastrous 2nd round picks of the past is a really dumb way to look at it.

Why is it dumb? Its the Redskins who drafted him and its the Redskin we're talking about and are concerned with. You seemed fine comparing Murphy to another Redskin 2nd pk in Preston Smith. I merely compared Murphy to a bigger sample size of Redskin 2nd rd picks.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Why is it dumb? Its the Redskins who drafted him and its the Redskin were talking about and are concerned with. You seemed fine comparing Murphy to another Redskin 2nd pk in Preston Smith. I merely compared Murphy to a bigger sample size of Redskin 2nd rd picks.

No I have been comparing Murphy with all 2nd round picks in a debate going back at least a year. Smith was just one and an easy one to reference seeing as he beat out TM as a rookie. The argument Dad and others have been making for a year is he is better than most 2nd round picks because he made the roster and contributed. The stats don't appear to back up that claim. But I do agree to an extent. He was not a bust as Dean claimed because he was a contributor even in a limited way.

 

[Breed]

No I have been comparing Murphy with all 2nd round picks in a debate going back at least a year. Smith was just one and an easy one to reference seeing as he beat out TM as a rookie. The argument Dad and others have been making for a year is he is better than most 2nd round picks because he made the roster and contributed. The stats don't appear to back up that claim, although I do agree to an extent. He was not a bust as Dean claimed because he was a contributor even in a limited way.

Word. I have no dog in the fight, but I am of the opinion that Murphy does have value and has contributed to the good. Now whether he's contributed enough to the good is another argument.

I basically said this in another post. If we look at his college career. He trended nicely from the time he was a freshman who played in 2 games, had 2 tackles and one sack. Too his senior year where he led the Pac 12 in sacks, was second in the nation in the same category with 15 and a consensus All American. He also compared well with another current NFL LB who came out the same year he did in Anthony Barr from UCLA.

Maybe Murphy's just a late bloomer. Whatever the case may be. I'm glad he's still a Redskin.