Claiborne

[es4m11]

Opinions very but I think it had a lot more to do with the horse collar rule than how they tried to use him.

I can definitely agree that the horse collar rule had an effect on Roy, mostly do to him thinking a little more instead of just reacting.

I have to disagree with that being the biggest issue, though. Asking Roy to play center field was the bigger problem. Manster do you remember the Washington game several years ago? Mark Brunell and Santana Moss hooking up twice for 40-50+ yard TD's in the last 3-4 minutes of the game -- both times Roy Williams let Moss get behind him. That game pretty much summed up Roy's abilities as a FS. I don't think the horse collar had anything to do with the fact Roy couldn't cover back there.

 

[Otis B. Driftwood]

I can definitely agree that the horse collar rule had an effect on Roy, mostly do to him thinking a little more instead of just reacting.

I have to disagree with that being the biggest issue, though. Asking Roy to play center field was the bigger problem. Manster do you remember the Washington game several years ago? Mark Brunell and Santana Moss hooking up twice for 40-50+ yard TD's in the last 3-4 minutes of the game -- both times Roy Williams let Moss get behind him. That game pretty much summed up Roy's abilities as a FS. I don't think the horse collar had anything to do with the fact Roy couldn't cover back there.

I was at that game. My buddy and his son (Redskins fans) were so disgusted with 5 minutes left that they wanted to leave. Told them that I'd be damned if we left before it was over.


Wish we had left.

 

[Manster7588]

I can definitely agree that the horse collar rule had an effect on Roy, mostly do to him thinking a little more instead of just reacting.

I have to disagree with that being the biggest issue, though. Asking Roy to play center field was the bigger problem. Manster do you remember the Washington game several years ago? Mark Brunell and Santana Moss hooking up twice for 40-50+ yard TD's in the last 3-4 minutes of the game -- both times Roy Williams let Moss get behind him. That game pretty much summed up Roy's abilities as a FS. I don't think the horse collar had anything to do with the fact Roy couldn't cover back there.

Well let's look at it in a time line. Horse Collar rule became effective for the 2005 season. Redskins abused Roy in 2005. That was beginning of Roy's slide. Had T.O. not been hurt in 2004 the rule is not enacted then and Roy would have been more than willing to drag guys down by the pads. Roy never had the speed to keep up so all he could do in pass coverage is hope to stay close.and drag em down. A 3 yard run with a horse collar became a 18 yard play.
Besides Parcells wasn't a round per in a square coach. He tried to use players strengths not put them where they didn't fit. I never saw Roy as being used as a Ed Reed type.

 

[ROMOTOOWENS]

No horse collar on this one. I actually liked this K, just sick of reliving the torching Roy took that Monday night. And yes, Roy caused this

 

[es4m11]

Well let's look at it in a time line. Horse Collar rule became effective for the 2005 season. Redskins abused Roy in 2005. That was beginning of Roy's slide. Had T.O. not been hurt in 2004 the rule is not enacted then and Roy would have been more than willing to drag guys down by the pads. Roy never had the speed to keep up so all he could do in pass coverage is hope to stay close.and drag em down. A 3 yard run with a horse collar became a 18 yard play.
Besides Parcells wasn't a round per in a square coach. He tried to use players strengths not put them where they didn't fit. I never saw Roy as being used as a Ed Reed type.

I still don't see how the horse collar rule has anything to do with Roy Williams not being able to cover guys down the field. Did it make Roy less of a player? Yes. But it had nothing to do with him not being able to stop guys from running by him in coverage.

Roy was asked to cover a lot more when Woodson retired. After Woodson, Roy ended up playing with guys named Lynn Scott, Tony Dixon, Kieth Davis, Pat Watkins. I remember more than a few times Roy getting burnt trying to cover down field.

 

[Manster7588]

I still don't see how the horse collar rule has anything to do with Roy Williams not being able to cover guys down the field. Did it make Roy less of a player? Yes. But it had nothing to do with him not being able to stop guys from running by him in coverage.

Roy was asked to cover a lot more when Woodson retired. After Woodson, Roy ended up playing with guys named Lynn Scott, Tony Dixon, Kieth Davis, Pat Watkins. I remember more than a few times Roy getting burnt trying to cover down field.

Yes Roy got burnt much more after Woodson retired however it had a lot more to do with Woodson not being there to help out. Roy never had coverage skills Woodson made Roy's job of being an in the box safety easier and he was seldom asked to cover. Now even though he's was bad in coverage he wasn't that much of a liability until the horse collar rule. From that point on he was a liability in pass coverage and in the run game.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Not that anyone gives a crap but I taught a class last week at a Phoenix high school and walking on campus I saw, "The home of Phillipi Sparks and Darren Woodson". Felt like I shouldnt have been there as an Eagles fan

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Opinions very but I think it had a lot more to do with the horse collar rule than how they tried to use him.

I think it had to be more then that. You've watched the Cowboys play more then I but in 2004 I think he had like 6 horse collar tackles when they were legal. Thats like one every 3rd game so it shouldnt have affected his game that much. He just seemed too big to run with WRs. In those 6 or so horse tackles he ended 3 players season. I remember when he did it to TO and I was crushed. 2004 was our big year and we lose TO during week 13.

I used to love that guy TO. His first game with Philly he puts up 3 TDs vs the Giants. I had him and McNabb on my fantasy team and dominated that year. I even had that shirt that said, "I LOVE TO" hahaha. Such a great talent and I was one of the few that were never pissed at him when he left town. He burned bridges everywhere he went but I always had a strong suspicion he was struggling with mental disease and, if true, he needs to be cut some slack.

 

[Manster7588]

I think it had to be more then that. You've watched the Cowboys play more then I but in 2004 I think he had like 6 horse collar tackles when they were legal. Thats like one every 3rd game so it shouldnt have affected his game that much. He just seemed too big to run with WRs. In those 6 or so horse tackles he ended 3 players season. I remember when he did it to TO and I was crushed. 2004 was our big year and we lose TO during week 13.

I used to love that guy TO. His first game with Philly he puts up 3 TDs vs the Giants. I had him and McNabb on my fantasy team and dominated that year. I even had that shirt that said, "I LOVE TO" hahaha. Such a great talent and I was one of the few that were never pissed at him when he left town. He burned bridges everywhere he went but I always had a strong suspicion he was struggling with mental disease and, if true, he needs to be cut some slack.

You basically supported my argument. In 2004 he used the horse collar tackle to his advantage. In 2005 the horse collar tackle became a penalty and Roy wasn't the same any longer.

The horse collar penalty is needed in today's nfl, but it was the beginning of pussyfixtation of the NFL

 

[ArlingtonCowboys100]

I really missed seeing Roy make those horsecollar tackles after the league outlawed them. Roy hurt lots of players with that tackle. He was the best at it. It did affect him. Maybe Barry Church horsecollars brees tonight and knocks him out of the game.

 

[ArlingtonCowboys100]

I think it had to be more then that. You've watched the Cowboys play more then I but in 2004 I think he had like 6 horse collar tackles when they were legal. Thats like one every 3rd game so it shouldnt have affected his game that much. He just seemed too big to run with WRs. In those 6 or so horse tackles he ended 3 players season. I remember when he did it to TO and I was crushed. 2004 was our big year and we lose TO during week 13.

I used to love that guy TO. His first game with Philly he puts up 3 TDs vs the Giants. I had him and McNabb on my fantasy team and dominated that year. I even had that shirt that said, "I LOVE TO" hahaha. Such a great talent and I was one of the few that were never pissed at him when he left town. He burned bridges everywhere he went but I always had a strong suspicion he was struggling with mental disease and, if true, he needs to be cut some slack.

Roy had way more than 6 horsecollar tackles. He had become an expert at it and did it all the time.

 

[snookdad]

I think the kid is a bust lets try him at safety before we cut him for nothing.

 

[Ekspozed]

I think the kid is a bust lets try him at safety before we cut him for nothing.

Not sure why people keep saying try more at safety. He can't cover or tackle and seems dumb and lost.... Yes let's try and teach him a new position on the fly...

 

[UK Cowboy]

Looks like an ACL....

 

[TxHeat]

Looks like an ACL....

improvement by subtraction.

 

[UK Cowboy]

improvement by subtraction.

Didn't hurt last night. Hate it for the kid though. From everything I've heard, he's a nice kid, just not the, um, sharpest tool in the shed.....

 

[TxHeat]

Didn't hurt last night. Hate it for the kid though. From everything I've heard, he's a nice kid, just not the, um, sharpest tool in the shed.....

Getting a 4 on the Wonderlic should have been a clue. Just sayin'.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Getting a 4 on the Wonderlic should have been a clue. Just sayin'.

That would have been a huge red flag when trading to move up for him. You could see how much faster the team is playing this year in Rod's simplified scheme. I just wonder if having his 3rd DC since his rookie year was too much for the kid to grasp....a blind rabbit could make a 4 on a Wonderlic

 

[es4m11]

You get 4 points for getting your name right on the wonderlic, right? Or maybe it was 6 points...

Mo will be back next year but, I wonder if it would not be best to just rehab him and then part ways with an unconditional release.

 

[TxHeat]

You get 4 points for getting your name right on the wonderlic, right? Or maybe it was 6 points...

Mo will be back next year but, I wonder if it would not be best to just rehab him and then part ways with an unconditional release.

maybe it was a 6. that's what VY also got.