Chipper Jones, Jim Thome, Vlad Guerrero and Trevor Hoffman inducted into the HOF

[Chewbaccer]

Your hero is an asshole.

Sorry this is how you find out

He wouldn't have been my hero if he wasn't an asshole.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

He wouldn't have been my hero if he wasn't an asshole.

Touché!

Let me know if you're coming to Cooperstown, you can stop in for a visit with us

 

[JohnU]

Speaking of the H of F ... interesting article on Dave Parker.

Dave Parker lives with Parkinson’s disease as another Hall of Fame Class heads to Cooperstown without him

 

[soxfan1468927]

Some people want to elect members to the hall based on pure stats, but we don't do it that way. A bunch of writers vote for their favorite players and don't vote for guys that were rude to them once back in St. Louis in 1997.

Its all opinions and eye tests.

You all seem to think I'm supposed to see Chipper exactly the same way everyone else does, and that's just not how the world works, sorry.

Never said that you should see Chipper the exact same as everyone else. I just don't see how you see Chipper as less of a HOFer than Trevor Hoffman.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Never said that you should see Chipper the exact same as everyone else. I just don't see how you see Chipper as less of a HOFer than Trevor Hoffman.

Because he sucks dick, all right??

 

[Omar 382]

Because he sucks dick, all right??

<looks around at others while shrugging> Yeah, checks out for me

 

[Omar 382]

What 3B would you rank ahead of Chipper.

Mike Schmidt for sure.

George Brett and Eddie Mathews have arguments, I'm extremely biased and would take Chipper over both, but they have strong cases.

That's it at 3B.

I guess it depends if you count A-Rod as a SS or third baseman. He played more games and had more innings at SS, so I count him as a SS. Even if I did count him as a third baseman, I'm not sure that I put him above Schmidt, trying to be as objective as possible.

I've got Schmidt as the best, Mathews second, and Chipper third. George Brett was a great player, don't get me wrong, but I think he's closer to Beltre/Santo/Boggs in terms of production than he is to Chipper.

To anyone who's making the argument of the eye test, or "was Chipper Jones really regarded as one of the best players while playing?"; fine, let's ignore the statistics. As someone who watched Chipper Jones tee off my team's pitchers every year from when I started watching baseball regularly- 2006-2012 (let me remind you, in the twilight of his career)- Yes, Chipper Jones was one of the best players of his generation, and of all time. This isn't even taking his defense into account, which always seemed underrated to me.

For the stat guys, from '05-'08, Chipper put up a 153, 155, 163, and 174 wRC+ respectively. Though he was hurt a couple of those years ('05 and '06), that 4 year run is up there with any 3B's 4 year run in the history of the game.

Actually, now I'm curious. @soxfan1468927, you seem to be the guy to go to- which 3B had similar or better 4 year runs?

 

[Omar 382]

I guess it depends if you count A-Rod as a SS or third baseman. He played more games and had more innings at SS, so I count him as a SS. Even if I did count him as a third baseman, I'm not sure that I put him above Schmidt, trying to be as objective as possible.

I've got Schmidt as the best, Mathews second, and Chipper third. George Brett was a great player, don't get me wrong, but I think he's closer to Beltre/Santo/Boggs in terms of production than he is to Chipper.

To anyone who's making the argument of the eye test, or "was Chipper Jones really regarded as one of the best players while playing?"; fine, let's ignore the statistics. As someone who watched Chipper Jones tee off my team's pitchers every year from when I started watching baseball regularly- 2006-2012 (let me remind you, in the twilight of his career)- Yes, Chipper Jones was one of the best players of his generation, and of all time. This isn't even taking his defense into account, which always seemed underrated to me.

For the stat guys, from '05-'08, Chipper put up a 153, 155, 163, and 174 wRC+ respectively. Though he was hurt a couple of those years ('05 and '06), that 4 year run is up there with any 3B's 4 year run in the history of the game.

Actually, now I'm curious. @soxfan1468927, you seem to be the guy to go to- which 3B had similar or better 4 year runs?

His WAR or WAA total would actually be easy to beat because of the time missed. But I wonder if anyone, who had let's say 430 PA every year for 4 years, if they could match his offensive production. I bet Schmidt, A-Rod, maybe Killebrew if he played at third for 4 years. Cabrera.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I guess it depends if you count A-Rod as a SS or third baseman. He played more games and had more innings at SS, so I count him as a SS. Even if I did count him as a third baseman, I'm not sure that I put him above Schmidt, trying to be as objective as possible.

I've got Schmidt as the best, Mathews second, and Chipper third. George Brett was a great player, don't get me wrong, but I think he's closer to Beltre/Santo/Boggs in terms of production than he is to Chipper.

To anyone who's making the argument of the eye test, or "was Chipper Jones really regarded as one of the best players while playing?"; fine, let's ignore the statistics. As someone who watched Chipper Jones tee off my team's pitchers every year from when I started watching baseball regularly- 2006-2012 (let me remind you, in the twilight of his career)- Yes, Chipper Jones was one of the best players of his generation, and of all time. This isn't even taking his defense into account, which always seemed underrated to me.

For the stat guys, from '05-'08, Chipper put up a 153, 155, 163, and 174 wRC+ respectively. Though he was hurt a couple of those years ('05 and '06), that 4 year run is up there with any 3B's 4 year run in the history of the game.

Actually, now I'm curious. @soxfan1468927, you seem to be the guy to go to- which 3B had similar or better 4 year runs?

Well that's a 162 wRC+ over 481 games and 2043 plate appearances. Just in that exact same time period, A-Rod had a 160 wRC+ over 612 games and 2691 plate appearances.

Eddie Mathews, 1952-1955, 161 wRC+ over 587 games
Dick Allen, 1964-1967, 163 wRC+ over 586 games

Just a couple I saw

 

[Omar 382]

Well that's a 162 wRC+ over 481 games and 2043 plate appearances. Just in that exact same time period, A-Rod had a 160 wRC+ over 612 games and 2691 plate appearances.

Eddie Mathews, 1952-1955, 161 wRC+ over 587 games
Dick Allen, 1964-1967, 163 wRC+ over 586 games

Just a couple I saw

Thanks man. I had a hunch Richie Allen might show up somewhere, but I thought maybe as a 1B.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Thanks man. I had a hunch Richie Allen might show up somewhere, but I thought maybe as a 1B.

I didn't dig too deep. Those were the three I saw first.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Well that's a 162 wRC+ over 481 games and 2043 plate appearances. Just in that exact same time period, A-Rod had a 160 wRC+ over 612 games and 2691 plate appearances.

Eddie Mathews, 1952-1955, 161 wRC+ over 587 games
Dick Allen, 1964-1967, 163 wRC+ over 586 games

Just a couple I saw

How does Al Rosen come out? He was the first name that popped in my head when I saw "peak".

 

[Omar 382]

How does Al Rosen come out? He was the first name that popped in my head when I saw "peak".

What's funny is that your usage of the word "peak" is the first instance of its usage on this page.

Something's not adding up. We're gonna need to take you downtown.

 

[DragonfromTO]

What's funny is that your usage of the word "peak" is the first instance of its usage on this page.

Something's not adding up. We're gonna need to take you downtown.

Haha, I guess I just don't have the time to type out "best 4 year run" every time I need to describe your parameters when "peak" seems like it fits just fine

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Not sure if I have Chipper as the third best 3B of all time or even a top 5.... But he was a clear HOF... I feel like the steroid era padded offensive stats too much...

As for Dick allen, I will always be surprised he did not make the HOF... and cant wait until the veterans committee rights that injustice...

 

[DragonfromTO]

What's funny is that your usage of the word "peak" is the first instance of its usage on this page.

Something's not adding up. We're gonna need to take you downtown.

Getting back to my original question, it looks like Rosen is close but his slight dip in 1951 fucks him.

 

[Omar 382]

Haha, I guess I just don't have the time to type out "best 4 year run" every time I need to describe your parameters when "peak" seems like it fits just fine

I looked it up, and Rosen doesn't have the 4 year run, per se, but his three year run from '52-'54 is pretty epic. 649 PA/155 wRC+ in '52, 688 PA/178 wRC+ in '53 (9.1 fWAR that year), and 566 PA/152 wRC+ in '54.

In comparison to Chipper's 4 year run earlier, Rosen is at 1,903 PA to Jones' 2,043. Goes to show how much time Chipper missed in '05/'06.

 

[Omar 382]

Getting back to my original question, it looks like Rosen is close but his slight dip in 1951 fucks him.

Yeah, I was ignoring his '50 and '51 stats because of '51, but it's not like he was awful or anything that year. He was still the 5th best third baseman in baseball that year in terms of WAR and wRC+. Also, holy shit- I just clicked on Minnie Minoso's page- I never realized he was such a good hitter. He was mediocre/horrendous his last 3 full seasons, but still finished with a career 133 wRC+.

Guy was like the original Albert Pujols before Pujols made it fashionable.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Yeah, I was ignoring his '50 and '51 stats because of '51, but it's not like he was awful or anything that year. He was still the 5th best third baseman in baseball that year in terms of WAR and wRC+. Also, holy shit- I just clicked on Minnie Minoso's page- I never realized he was such a good hitter. He was mediocre/horrendous his last 3 full seasons, but still finished with a career 133 wRC+.

Guy was like the original Albert Pujols before Pujols made it fashionable.

I'd actually be OK with Minoso in the Hall of Fame but I think that ship has sailed.

 

[Omar 382]

I'd actually be OK with Minoso in the Hall of Fame but I think that ship has sailed.

Yeah, if they didn't do it while he was alive, they'd probably feel like pricks electing him now