World Series Chicago Cubs vs. Cleveland Indians

[CowboyB]

When I say steady progression and you CHUNK years together it's clear you have an agenda and presented stats in a manner to support your claim. Show me year by year shit head.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Not that I ever said Molina hasn't used PEDs which is exactly what makes your bullshit strawman but Yadier has a steady progression of improvement. Not a jump from worst to first.

Now prove your claim or shut the fuck up.

That's a stretch...not accusing him of anything but he got much better offensively in a quick amount of time.

Look at the years 2011-2013 and compare it with the years before and you'll see that he more doubled his per season home run total overnight and he went from a 94 OPS+ in 2008-2010 to a 130 OPS+ in 2011-2013 (with it jumping from 84 to 124 in the span of one year).

2008: 7 HR, 96 OPS+
2009: 6 HR, 100 OPS+
2010: 6 HR, 84 OPS+
2011: 14 HR, 124 OPS+
2012: 22 HR, 137 OPS+
2013: 12 HR, 129 OPS+



That's not a 'steady progression' by any means. He went from being a below average hitting catcher in 2010 to a top 5 hitting catcher the next 3 years.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

When I get to work I'll graph their progression.

Then who's gonna make the fries?

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

When I say steady progression and you CHUNK years together it's clear you have an agenda and presented stats in a manner to support your claim. Show me year by year shit head.

Yadier Molina

Pre steroids - .361 SLG%
With steroids - .481 SLG%

spits on umpires

 

[packerzrule]

Then who's gonna make the fries?

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

That's not a 'steady progression' by any means.

Clearly you're not wearing your Cardinals Underoos today.

 

[CowboyB]

That's a stretch...not accusing him of anything but he got much better offensively in a quick amount of time.

Look at the years 2011-2013 and compare it with the years before and you'll see that he more doubled his per season home run total overnight and he went from a 94 OPS+ in 2008-2010 to a 130 OPS+ in 2011-2013 (with it jumping from 84 to 124 in the span of one year).

2008: 7 HR, 96 OPS+
2009: 6 HR, 100 OPS+
2010: 6 HR, 84 OPS+
2011: 14 HR, 124 OPS+
2012: 22 HR, 137 OPS+
2013: 12 HR, 129 OPS+



That's not a 'steady progression' by any means.

OK he had steady progression with a down year in between.

Either way I'm not saying he didn't use. He probably did. But calling his career a mirror image to Arrieta is false.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Discuss

You talk about PED usage as if you're not a fan of a team that Yadier Molina plays for.

Prove it.

Speaking of discuss, check it out, Hammer, one of your favorite topics!

 

[CowboyB]

Yadier Molina

Pre steroids - .361 SLG%
With steroids - .481 SLG%

spits on umpires

You're not going to get me to deny he used if that's what you're trying to do. I don't give a fuck. If he used I wish he would have used more.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

You're not going to get me to deny he used if that's what you're trying to do. I don't give a fuck. If he used I wish he would have used more.

I'm not trying to do anything.

 

[CowboyB]

I'm not trying to do anything.

Liar.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Arrieta is a poster boy for PEDs. His whole career he has been shitty to mediocre and then all of the sudden he blows up past his prime.

He has been pretty mediocre for much of the 2nd half this year. Chances are he got wind of tests and dropped his cycles.

Pujols and Molina say hello

 

[CowboyB]

Pujols and Molina say hello

Cool!

 

[StanMarsh51]

OK he had steady progression with a down year in between.

Either way I'm not saying he didn't use. He probably did. But calling his career a mirror image to Arrieta is false.

You're still hooked on this 'steady progression' claim which is a major stretch...

If his numbers got 5% better on average for a number of years, your claim would make some sense. As you can see by the year-by-year numbers, that's not the case as he got significantly better in 2011 than he ever was, as he had more HR in 2011 than he did in 2009-2010 combined, and his OPS+ for 2011-2013 was nearly 40% better than it was in 2008-2010.

He also hit 2.5x more HR in 2011-2013 than he did the prior 3 years. If a player averaged 20 HR for a 3 year stretch then averaged 50 for the next 3 years (2.5x increase, similar to Molina's), you're seriously going to claim that's a steady, normal progression? You'd have a hard time finding anyone who would agree with that...

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Either way I'm not saying he didn't use. He probably did. But calling his career a mirror image to Arrieta is false.

You can literally swap Arrieta's name for Molina's in what you said and the statement is no less accurate.

Arrieta is a poster boy for PEDs. His whole career he has been shitty to mediocre and then all of the sudden he blows up past his prime.

Through age 27, Arietta had an 80 ERA+, then at ages 28-30, 160 ERA+.

Through age 27, Molina had an 82 OPS+, then at ages 28-30, 130 OPS+.

 

[CowboyB]

You're still hooked on this 'steady progression' claim which is a major stretch...

If his numbers got 5% better on average for a number of years, your claim would make some sense. As you can see by the year-by-year numbers, that's not the case as he got significantly better in 2011 than he ever was, as he had more HR in 2011 than he did in 2009-2010 combined, and his OPS+ for 2011-2013 was nearly 40% better than it was in 2008-2010.

He also hit 2.5x more HR in 2011-2013 than he did the prior 3 years. If a player averaged 20 HR for a 3 year stretch then averaged 50 for the next 3 years (2.5x increase, similar to Molina's), you're seriously going to claim that's a steady progression? You'd have a hard time finding anyone who would agree with that...

I had no idea there were only 2 stats. Of course you can find anything you're looking for. If you watch his average you can see steady progression. His plate discipline also has steady progression as he increasingly became harder to strikeout.

Factor all of that and it's not unreasonable to believe AFTER he became a better hitter in all aspects the other numbers came together.

14 home runs is not a lot by any means and I'm sure we can see jumps from single digits to double digits in one year for many players of his ilk.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I had no idea there were only 2 stats. Of course you can find anything you're looking for. If you watch his average you can see steady progression. His plate discipline also has steady progression as he increasingly became harder to strikeout.

Factor all of that and it's not unreasonable to believe AFTER he became a better hitter in all aspects the other numbers came together.

14 home runs is not a lot by any means and I'm sure we can see jumps from single digits to double digits in one year for many players of his ilk.

I'm starting to feel badly for you now.

Here, put these on:

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Of course you can find anything you're looking for.

I don't think he had to look very long to find OPS+ and HR totals.

 

[CowboyB]

I don't think he had to look very long to find OPS+ and HR totals.

I agree. Cherry picking is effortless.

 

[The Q]

@Snake Eyes This is really weird being on the same side of something.

Salazar is a huge pussy.

There, that feels better.