Cap Hell?

[Schmoopy1000]

Seems some are using both sides of the fence here.

1st everyone (including me) complained about the Cowboys keeping players to long or spending to much resigning vets for more than they are worth.

but now use the fact we didn't resign hatcher (who wanted a pot of gold) or Ware (very long in the tooth) & use the reasoning because we are in cap hell.
Well I say we would have been nuts to sign them to the big contract no matter what the cap situation is. (unless it was the last piece of a puzzle)
So I think we didn't sign them so we don't go into cap hell later. The only contract that is scary is the QB contract which was designed from day one to be restructured. To me there is a huge difference from being tight with the cap(like most teams) & cap hell.

Yes we don't have as much play money as other teams right now, but that doesn't equate to cap hell.

 

[tw1st3d]

Seems some are using both sides of the fence here.

1st everyone (including me) complained about the Cowboys keeping players to long or spending to much resigning vets for more than they are worth.

but now use the fact we didn't resign hatcher (who wanted a pot of gold) or Ware (very long in the tooth) & use the reasoning because we are in cap hell.
Well I say we would have been nuts to sign them to the big contract no matter what the cap situation is. (unless it was the last piece of a puzzle)
So I think we didn't sign them so we don't go into cap hell later. The only contract that is scary is the QB contract which was designed from day one to be restructured. To me there is a huge difference from being tight with the cap(like most teams) & cap hell.

Yes we don't have as much play money as other teams right now, but that doesn't equate to cap hell.

Has nothing to do with seeing both sides of the fence.

It's real fucking simple ..... Some of us can actually see this cap situation keeping us a .500 team. And would like to go ahead and bite the bullet and ge that part over with.

As far as Hatcher goes .. I agree we should have let him go. But he didn't get a gold mine from Washington. In fact he got LESS than Melton got with us. Only difference is we can opt out on Melton next year. So thats only a good deal if he has a shitty year and we cut him after the season ..... or if he has a good enough year to keep him we keep him 2 more years at 9 million. So we let a guy go that had more sacks last year than Melton has ever had in a season to replace him with a guy 1 year youner with a bigger contract. Not smart money management IMO.

No to Pdays point .... draft and player evaluations... I agree
But here's what we did in the draft. We could have moved up2 spots to get ahead of the Steelers and actually got the rusher we wanted. 2 spots doesnt cost much. Prolly a 3rd. Which would have left us with our 2nd. Could have fixed 2 D-line positions for YEARS to come. Instead we waited til the second gave up more for a lesser player.
Anyone can sugar coat that all they want ... it was still a shitty draft management.
AAnd if your biggest problem is how we draft and evaluate talent ...... That would just give you more reason to question the move and not have faith in the front office (which I dont)

 

[PDay8810]

"Some of us can actually see this cap situation keeping us a .500 team"


then you haven't been watching the actual games the last 7 years or so cause I still think the three I mention have more to do with 500 than available money.


nobody is sugarcoating anything. The thread topic is pretty darn clear as we stand here today. It's just some consider this money issue as not the major issue....hasn't been the last few seasons and doesn't seem to me to be in the near future. It's still about having guys stay somewhat healthy and several players on your 53 outperforming their contract.

 

[ROMOTOOWENS]

I have never paid real close attention to the cap until recently and I still dont care a whole lot about it. The thing I have seen in the past is if JJ wants them he finds a way to resign them. Maybe this has kept us from signing that big FA that we have needed - I dont know. About 3 yrs ago - he was dying to get Namdi as was I. Arent we glad that didnt happen now. .

 

[ROMOTOOWENS]

"Some of us can actually see this cap situation keeping us a .500 team"


then you haven't been watching the actual games the last 7 years or so cause I still think the three I mention have more to do with 500 than available money.


nobody is sugarcoating anything. The thread topic is pretty darn clear as we stand here today. It's just some consider this money issue as not the major issue....hasn't been the last few seasons and doesn't seem to me to be in the near future. It's still about having guys stay somewhat healthy and several players on your 53 outperforming their contract.

Of the 3 you mention- player evaluation, developing players, execution and game planning- dont you think we have made strides here with exception of maybe player evaluation. I guess what Im getting at is the Coaching this team is recieving. I know JG/ Romo have had their issues with the clock but as far as coaching- Callahan, Linehan, Marinelli , Kiffen- thats a wealth of knowledge to offer IMO. I could be way off here but I think the player development and planning should be in good hands. Im anxious to see how 3 alphas on the offensive side coexist- JG, Linehan, and Callahan.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Yikes ... 19 million for the Eagles? Lets hope they don't spend it wisely.

They will spend it wisely. They have been traditionally good at managing their cap. They are holding on to that to roll it over to next year. Trent Cole will be let go and that saves us $10 million on top of that. I'm guessing Demeco Ryans 7.5 million is dropped also with neither leaving any dead money. The Eagles have some very big bills coming up.. Fletcher Cox, Michael Kendrick, Brandon Boykin and especially Nick Foles. We will try to sign all of them to fair contracts by ending their rookie contracts a year or two early.

If the cap goes up 5 million we are looking at 50 million in cap space used to resign our good young nucleus. Boykin could be tricky cause he's the best nickle CB in the NFL but will he want #1 CB money? I think the Eagles are out of the big money FA game as it hasnt worked out to well (Nnamdi Asomugha, TO, Jevon Kearse, The "Dream Team" fiasco etc.).

 

[PDay8810]

Of the 3 you mention- player evaluation, developing players, execution and game planning- dont you think we have made strides here with exception of maybe player evaluation. I guess what Im getting at is the Coaching this team is recieving. I know JG/ Romo have had their issues with the clock but as far as coaching- Callahan, Linehan, Marinelli , Kiffen- thats a wealth of knowledge to offer IMO. I could be way off here but I think the player development and planning should be in good hands. Im anxious to see how 3 alphas on the offensive side coexist- JG, Linehan, and Callahan.

Good points. Player development to me is more than a guy here or there. I think they failed last year with Wilcox if he was so bad about knowing his assignments that Heath got on the field week after week. Carr, Mo, Carter, Scandrick, Church haven't made significant enough strides to me. Maybe this is the year some of that changes. It's needed. GOOD Coaches should have vision and coach role players to their role. They should make Pro Bowlers All Pro's on occasion. When was the last time that happened?

I keep going back to 3rd all time in yards allowed last season or something like that, as well as teams like the Ravens and other teams over the resent years talking about our game plans and predictability on offense. tendencies are important and good coaches scout their own....least you would think they would.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Yet again Im in agreement with Twist3d. Whether we like it or not, following the cap is a part of rooting for your team these days. I dont think a ton of space is as good as it seems and I dont think being up against the limit is horrible as it seems. But ascending teams need to have cap space to keep their studs from hitting unrestricted free agency. Typically you have to over pay to keep them once they hit UFA status. Cap space is also good to add good 2nd tier UFA's to fill in some holes or landing an occasional superstar every five years or so. Conner Barwin on the Eagles is a perfect example of a tier two FA. He might have been our best Defensive player last year and he didnt break the bank. He was sitting behind JJ Watt. Its nice to have extra money to bring in good players that aren't tier 1 UFA's that break the bank.

If you turn your back on your teams cap issues you are ignoring the hypothetical troubles your team might face. Im curious to see how Dallas resigns T. Smith, Dez and DeMarco Murray. It will be interesting to see what they decide to do but you do want your team to be able to keep the studs you drafted and all 3 are studs. T. Smith simply cant be let go. WAY TOO VALUABLE.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Yet again Im in agreement with Twist3d. Whether we like it or not, following the cap is a part of rooting for your team these days. I dont think a ton of space is as good as it seems and I dont think being up against the limit is horrible as it seems. But ascending teams need to have cap space to keep their studs from hitting unrestricted free agency. Typically you have to over pay to keep them once they hit UFA status. Cap space is also good to add good 2nd tier UFA's to fill in some holes or landing an occasional superstar every five years or so. Conner Barwin on the Eagles is a perfect example of a tier two FA. He might have been our best Defensive player last year and he didnt break the bank. He was sitting behind JJ Watt. Its nice to have extra money to bring in good players that aren't tier 1 UFA's that break the bank.

If you turn your back on your teams cap issues you are ignoring the hypothetical troubles your team might face. Im curious to see how Dallas resigns T. Smith, Dez and DeMarco Murray. It will be interesting to see what they decide to do but you do want your team to be able to keep the studs you drafted and all 3 are studs. T. Smith simply cant be let go. WAY TOO VALUABLE.

no one is turning their back on the cap issues. We are disagreeing on where we are in the cap.
the cap sky is not falling on us & we will sign our studs. Those saying we are in cap hell are comparing us to some of the best at controlling the cap. We are far from that, but we aren't gutting the team to get under the cap. again there is a difference from being against the cap & being in cap hell.

 

[ROMOTOOWENS]

I go year to year . I just think JJ gets it done when it comes to resigning the so called stud players. Maybe we overpay them and that keeps us from getting a big time FA or 2 . In our 2013 draft- 5 of the 7 picks will start or have significant roles this season. For some reason Im just seeing more competition this year than in years past- so that tells me 1-53 should be better.

 

[snookdad]

Yet again Im in agreement with Twist3d. Whether we like it or not, following the cap is a part of rooting for your team these days. I dont think a ton of space is as good as it seems and I dont think being up against the limit is horrible as it seems. But ascending teams need to have cap space to keep their studs from hitting unrestricted free agency. Typically you have to over pay to keep them once they hit UFA status. Cap space is also good to add good 2nd tier UFA's to fill in some holes or landing an occasional superstar every five years or so. Conner Barwin on the Eagles is a perfect example of a tier two FA. He might have been our best Defensive player last year and he didnt break the bank. He was sitting behind JJ Watt. Its nice to have extra money to bring in good players that aren't tier 1 UFA's that break the bank.

If you turn your back on your teams cap issues you are ignoring the hypothetical troubles your team might face. Im curious to see how Dallas resigns T. Smith, Dez and DeMarco Murray. It will be interesting to see what they decide to do but you do want your team to be able to keep the studs you drafted and all 3 are studs. T. Smith simply cant be let go. WAY TOO VALUABLE.

I do look at our cap number as a fan in terms of if we are over or do we have many, and what we can spend that's about it I'm no concerned to the degree as some of my fellow fans of this team who are deeply immersed in the cap. I don't consider myself a casual fan at all I'm a hard core die hard fan, but at some point some of you guy's approach is to sophisticated and just not fun. We have guys who or payed handsomely to care for the cap and I don't worry about the cap cause i'm powerless to change it. I just want to root for my Boys.

 

[snookdad]

They will spend it wisely. They have been traditionally good at managing their cap. They are holding on to that to roll it over to next year. Trent Cole will be let go and that saves us $10 million on top of that. I'm guessing Demeco Ryans 7.5 million is dropped also with neither leaving any dead money. The Eagles have some very big bills coming up.. Fletcher Cox, Michael Kendrick, Brandon Boykin and especially Nick Foles. We will try to sign all of them to fair contracts by ending their rookie contracts a year or two early.

If the cap goes up 5 million we are looking at 50 million in cap space used to resign our good young nucleus. Boykin could be tricky cause he's the best nickle CB in the NFL but will he want #1 CB money? I think the Eagles are out of the big money FA game as it hasnt worked out to well (Nnamdi Asomugha, TO, Jevon Kearse, The "Dream Team" fiasco etc.).

Don't take this wrong but this is a perfect example imo on why cap managment has been over emphasized in this forum. In your own words the Eagles are a team who tend to manage the cap well and with a 50 million dollar surplus probably above avg. Yet over the coarse of 10 years the Eagles and Cowboys have relatively both lived in mediocrity. The Eagles and the Redskins have both over the past 5 or 6 years landed some big Names in F/A but when was the last time either team even made it past the divisional round in the playoffs?

 

[jarntt]

Seems some are using both sides of the fence here.

1st everyone (including me) complained about the Cowboys keeping players to long or spending to much resigning vets for more than they are worth.

but now use the fact we didn't resign hatcher (who wanted a pot of gold) or Ware (very long in the tooth) & use the reasoning because we are in cap hell.
Well I say we would have been nuts to sign them to the big contract no matter what the cap situation is. (unless it was the last piece of a puzzle)
So I think we didn't sign them so we don't go into cap hell later. The only contract that is scary is the QB contract which was designed from day one to be restructured. To me there is a huge difference from being tight with the cap(like most teams) & cap hell.

Yes we don't have as much play money as other teams right now, but that doesn't equate to cap hell.

Not true. If not for the cap problems that forced us to restructure Ware I think his salary was around $9M this year. We wouldn't have cut him at that dollar amount. Because of the cap problems and restructures I think Wares cap hit was around $17M. So you can see it as playing both sides of the fence, but I don't. Keeping Ware at one more year for $9M would be a good idea for me, doing so at a $17M cap hit was just not possible or worthwhile. That isn't playing both sides, that is recognizing the two different scenarios.

Hatcher was a FA so it's a totally different scenario. I guess If we were in a great cap situation we could have tagged him. I'll leave it up to each person as to whether or not that would have been smart, but it certainly would have made us a much better team. But signing him long term would have perpetuated the problems in the past that screwed our cap in the first place.

 

[ROMOTOOWENS]

If Hatch was tagged what would that have been - 9 mill??? I say no.

 

[tw1st3d]

there is a difference from being against the cap & being in cap hell.

So what would it take for you to consider us in cap hell? How could we possibly be in a worse situation with the cap?

I'm just curious.


Cause here is what I see.
We have huge money invested in Carr. Who wasn't even good last year. Making top 5 cb money
a high 1st invested in Mo who wasn't close to good last year.

We have Carter at linebacker..... Good or bad this year. He is a free agent end of the season.
Lee is out (but not going to factor an injury into this)
All of our LBers other than Lee and Dunbar are on rookie contracts.
Minus Spencer and Melton our D-line is either on rookie deals or cheap deals. With Hayden and Selvie both free agents at the end of the season

Now here is a good thing. Other than Free our entire O-line makes shit. Smith is on a rookie contract as well as Leary and Frederick, while MB makes back up guard money.

But the thing is. After this year Leary is a free agent as well. BTW he is on a rookie min contract.
Smith will have to be resigned either this year or next. The sooner the cheaper but we have him for next year reguardless.
EVERY receiver we have is on a rookie contract. With Dez, Harris, and Beasley all free agents after the season.
Goto TE .... Witten is making right much. But like with Ware, ALOT of his money is restructure money.
Then goto the backfield. Both Murray andDunbar are on rookie contracts and both Free Agents at the end of the year.

Anf OFC Romo who we restructure every year.


We have awhole lot of starters playing on rookie contracts. and yet as stands going into 2015 we are well over the cap. With alot of players to resign.


So will we be tearing down the team........ No but it will look awhole lot different with most of those guys gone.

 

[tw1st3d]

meant to say Durant at lber not Dunbar

 

[Ekspozed]

So what would it take for you to consider us in cap hell? How could we possibly be in a worse situation with the cap?

I'm just curious.


Cause here is what I see.
We have huge money invested in Carr. Who wasn't even good last year. Making top 5 cb money
a high 1st invested in Mo who wasn't close to good last year.

We have Carter at linebacker..... Good or bad this year. He is a free agent end of the season.
Lee is out (but not going to factor an injury into this)
All of our LBers other than Lee and Dunbar are on rookie contracts.
Minus Spencer and Melton our D-line is either on rookie deals or cheap deals. With Hayden and Selvie both free agents at the end of the season

Now here is a good thing. Other than Free our entire O-line makes shit. Smith is on a rookie contract as well as Leary and Frederick, while MB makes back up guard money.

But the thing is. After this year Leary is a free agent as well. BTW he is on a rookie min contract.
Smith will have to be resigned either this year or next. The sooner the cheaper but we have him for next year reguardless.
EVERY receiver we have is on a rookie contract. With Dez, Harris, and Beasley all free agents after the season.
Goto TE .... Witten is making right much. But like with Ware, ALOT of his money is restructure money.
Then goto the backfield. Both Murray andDunbar are on rookie contracts and both Free Agents at the end of the year.

Anf OFC Romo who we restructure every year.


We have awhole lot of starters playing on rookie contracts. and yet as stands going into 2015 we are well over the cap. With alot of players to resign.


So will we be tearing down the team........ No but it will look awhole lot different with most of those guys gone.

As a fan, you're worrying too much about the cap.
Jerry Jones will again fit us under the cap while putting together a competing team.

 

[tw1st3d]

As a fan, you're worrying too much about the cap.
Jerry Jones will again fit us under the cap while putting together a competing team.

If and only if you consider 8-8 competing..........

are we a threat to win the division? Absolutely .... the division sucks
are we a threat to win a superbowl? ..... No period .... the only way would be some serious luck ... and major injuries to 8 other teams .... hell after all a team with major injuries last year kicked our ass ( Chicago)

fitting under the cap is what we do ...... and now we are sown to majority contracts that are rookie contracts .... 3 contracts we can move money on not 10 ..... and over the cap with a bunch of STARTERS ON ROOKIE CONTRACTS...... running out of players to restructure

YOU CANNOT RESTRUCTURE A ROOKIE CONTRACT


we can bite the bullet soon .... or the solid player we have like Frederick ... wont be anything left to resign him with .... thats what happens when you push contracts to the future

Me I think we have a solid core on rookie contracts ..... most I'd prefer to keep ... and we are putting ourselves in a situation to not be able to keep ANY of them

 

[tw1st3d]

As a fan, you're worrying too much about the cap.
Jerry Jones will again fit us under the cap while putting together a competing team.

and actually .... If that is the way you think or others ( im not focusing on you) Then you have no rights to ever blame Jerry Jones for the situation the Cowboys are in.


That's how he thinks ... it's a failed way of thinking .... So anyone agreeing with it ..... Thinks like him ... and loses all rights to blaming him

and yes that includes you Pday.... always for THIS year and never for the future

 

[tw1st3d]

Yet again Im in agreement with Twist3d. Whether we like it or not, following the cap is a part of rooting for your team these days. I dont think a ton of space is as good as it seems and I dont think being up against the limit is horrible as it seems. But ascending teams need to have cap space to keep their studs from hitting unrestricted free agency. Typically you have to over pay to keep them once they hit UFA status. Cap space is also good to add good 2nd tier UFA's to fill in some holes or landing an occasional superstar every five years or so. Conner Barwin on the Eagles is a perfect example of a tier two FA. He might have been our best Defensive player last year and he didnt break the bank. He was sitting behind JJ Watt. Its nice to have extra money to bring in good players that aren't tier 1 UFA's that break the bank.

If you turn your back on your teams cap issues you are ignoring the hypothetical troubles your team might face. Im curious to see how Dallas resigns T. Smith, Dez and DeMarco Murray. It will be interesting to see what they decide to do but you do want your team to be able to keep the studs you drafted and all 3 are studs. T. Smith simply cant be let go. WAY TOO VALUABLE.

Nick you kinda get what im trying to say .... but it's a bit more complex with the Cowboys

Of our starters .... only 7 arent on rookie contracts( offense and defense combined) .... and we are over the cap next year ... without resigning anyone

I dont understand how in the hell that isnt considered cap hell