Browns are screwed

[Darrell Green Fan]

And again explain to me how exactly is it good business to make a hole in one spot simply to TRY and fill a hole in another spot??

Prezactly. This team has very few good players. Garcon is one of them. Why would we be in a hurry to get rid of him just to try to fill another need? And yes the key word here it TRY. Garcon is one of the few FAs that actually worked out here, no guarantees the money saves will result the new player or players working out as well.

Have we already forgotten what it was like when our other receivers were Josh Morgan, Hank, an aging Santana and with a few injuries something called Nick Williams in the starting lineup? Now some are suggesting we go back to that situation only replacing Pierre with DJax who is a time bomb waiting to explode by the way.

 

[Stymietee]

Dude I call it hate because from the moment we signed him your words were he would not be a number 1 WR on any other team. And even when he had more receptions than any WR in the league, your words were basically that he only did it because the rest of our WRs were so pathetic.

And again explain to me how exactly is it good business to make a hole in one spot simply to TRY and fill a hole in another spot??

I stand by those statements, he's is not and has never been a #1 on any other team but this one. Additionally the signing of Roberts confirmed to many that this team had every intention on making him their #1, that is until DJax became available. If they thought him to be that dominating game changing type guy why sign Jackson? To be the #2? Makes no sense. Is it also not a fact that Indy with by far better QB play (Manning) deemed him to be a #2 behind Wayne?

Washington is a study in abject failure. They have constantly felt the need to spend huge sums of money on cast-offs of other teams then repackaging them as something that they are not, reimagining them as they once were, or not realizing that when another team allows a player to become available, there are legitimate reasons for that.

By the way, I've answered your question in my previous post........they are not filling holes as you suggest in your front yard/back yard analogy.......they are in complete rebuild mode.....that's Complete, top to bottom, no exceptions.

 

[Stymietee]

Prezactly. This team has very few good players. Garcon is one of them. Why would we be in a hurry to get rid of him just to try to fill another need? And yes the key word here it TRY. Garcon is one of the few FAs that actually worked out here, no guarantees the money saves will result the new player or players working out as well.

Have we already forgotten what it was like when our other receivers were Josh Morgan, Hank, an aging Santana and with a few injuries something called Nick Williams in the starting lineup? Now some are suggesting we go back to that situation only replacing Pierre with DJax who is a time bomb waiting to explode by the way.

So basically you have no faith in the organization, nor in the new GM to do the job he was hired to do? That's fair and I support your skepticism.

 

[Lonewate44]

I stand by those statements, he's is not and has never been a #1 on any other team but this one. Additionally the signing of Roberts confirmed to many that this team had every intention on making him their #1, that is until DJax became available. If they thought him to be that dominating game changing type guy why sign Jackson? To be the #2? Makes no sense. Is it also not a fact that Indy with by far better QB play (Manning) deemed him to be a #2 behind Wayne?

Washington is a study in abject failure. They have constantly felt the need to spend huge sums of money on cast-offs of other teams then repackaging them as something that they are not, reimagining them as they once were, or not realizing that when another team allows a player to become available, there are legitimate reasons for that.

By the way, I've answered your question in my previous post........they are not filling holes as you suggest in your front yard/back yard analogy.......they are in complete rebuild mode.....that's Complete, top to bottom, no exceptions.

You have been a hater of Garcon since they signed him....... Roberts WAS NOT signed to be our#1 receiver..he was signed to be our #2 wr.........When jackson became available.....why wouldnt we sign him to IMPROVE our team???...Which he did......we Signed him to have 2 STUD receivers, and that is what we have......

Yeah..In INDY he was #2 behind an established #1 wr that has been very good for year (he sat behind Harrison as the #2 for years)...... Pretty hard to become the the #1 guy when you have someone like Wayne in front of you......

 

[Stymietee]

Gentlemen/Ladies, I have not forgotten the avalanche of posters that made it perfectly clear that they saw me as hating S. Moss 3 seasons ago when I suggested that his time was past. Hating when I suggested in the last two off seasons that the OL needed to be up graded. Still more hating when I suggested that M. Shanahan's system would not work in the NFC East. Then my hate turn into dispiriting despise when I went after B. Allen. If the best that you can say about me is that I've been consistent, consider this, S. Moss has been paid to dress in the last few years. After a few seasons of futility very few would argue in favor of keeping our OL as is. M.Shanahan is gone and you couldn't stop people from expressing joy with the hire of a true GM.

The news is about to get worse for a bunch of you. Barring interference from Allen via Snyder S. McGloughin is going to disappoint many of you by making moves at the expense of short term goals in favor of long term gains. What? Surprised? When he said that the team will get younger, I didn't hear him say except this or that player. When he said the team would get bigger I didn't hear except this player or that one. When he said that the team will draft and developed their own players I never heard him say except at this position or that one. Who are the current players that came here via FA.? Most will be gone in a year or two. Etch it in stone, changes are coming to DC unfortunately for some of you, it's gonna happen like it or not to players that you hate to see it happening to.

 

[Stymietee]

You have been a hater of Garcon since they signed him....... Roberts WAS NOT signed to be our#1 receiver..he was signed to be our #2 wr.........When jackson became available.....why wouldnt we sign him to IMPROVE our team???...Which he did......we Signed him to have 2 STUD receivers, and that is what we have......

Yeah..In INDY he was #2 behind an established #1 wr that has been very good for year (he sat behind Harrison as the #2 for years)...... Pretty hard to become the the #1 guy when you have someone like Wayne in front of you......

Call it hating if that makes you feel better, but the debate over Pierre Garcon being a #1 or #2 WR goes beyond this site. My guess is that for those of you who see him as a #1, it's hating when others do not. That's OK, I understand.

Here's an example:
Shawn Springs: Pierre Garcon is a No. 2 - Washington Post





BTW: you've misread my comment about Roberts, the subject was and has been Garcon. To be clear Roberts was bought here to be the #2. I could have made that clearer.

It's also OK if you see this team as having 2 stud WR, I don't, we have an outstanding guy in Jackson and a good #2 in Garcon.

 

[Lonewate44]

Call it hating if that makes you feel better, but the debate over Pierre Garcon being a #1 or #2 WR goes beyond this site. My guess is that for those of you who see him as a #1, it's hating when others do not. That's OK, I understand.

Here's an example:
Shawn Springs: Pierre Garcon is a No. 2 - Washington Post





BTW: you've misread my comment about Roberts, the subject was and has been Garcon. To be clear Roberts was bought here to be the #2. I could have made that clearer.

It's also OK if you see this team as having 2 stud WR, I don't, we have an outstanding guy in Jackson and a good #2 in Garcon.

Well.......to each his own.....If you want to label jackson as #1 and Garcon as #2...that is your right.....but a #2 guy doesnt lead his team in receptions for 2 or more years.......But I am very happy with our 2 starting WRs....I was EXTREMLY disappointed in Roberts and his knack for not catching the ball.......I hope that Grant takes the next step and moves into that role.

 

[Lonewate44]

Gentlemen/Ladies, I have not forgotten the avalanche of posters that made it perfectly clear that they saw me as hating S. Moss 3 seasons ago when I suggested that his time was past. Hating when I suggested in the last two off seasons that the OL needed to be up graded. Still more hating when I suggested that M. Shanahan's system would not work in the NFC East. Then my hate turn into dispiriting despise when I went after B. Allen. If the best that you can say about me is that I've been consistent, consider this, S. Moss has been paid to dress in the last few years. After a few seasons of futility very few would argue in favor of keeping our OL as is. M.Shanahan is gone and you couldn't stop people from expressing joy with the hire of a true GM.

The news is about to get worse for a bunch of you. Barring interference from Allen via Snyder S. McGloughin is going to disappoint many of you by making moves at the expense of short term goals in favor of long term gains. What? Surprised? When he said that the team will get younger, I didn't hear him say except this or that player. When he said the team would get bigger I didn't hear except this player or that one. When he said that the team will draft and developed their own players I never heard him say except at this position or that one. Who are the current players that came here via FA.? Most will be gone in a year or two. Etch it in stone, changes are coming to DC unfortunately for some of you, it's gonna happen like it or not to players that you hate to see it happening to.

I completly agree with your last paragraph......however....when Scot (who is smart enough I assume) to not hurt your team by cutting or trading a good productive player in Garcon.....hope you wont be too butt-hurt......

Sure this is a rebuild......BUT.....you still have to go into the next few seasons with Players that can...you know.....help you win games to change the losing culture in DC..... Garcon is 1 of those players that will help the team......cutting him or trading him for a mid round pick in hopes that the guy you draft..can play...is crazy

 

[skinsdad62]

I've answered it several times, but you want to dismiss reason for emotion. Rather than a rewrite read the response that I've written to Shark.

It's "taboo" because few here agree with it (don't ask me why) but as you've said many media outlets are talking about it, but when I do I get this foolishness.

I expect at least a 3rd or 4th this year....a 6th or 7th in 2016 and nothing in 2017 when he becomes a FA. The teams that will take him and his salary will be those who see themselves as one or two players away from contending for it all now, with a 29 year old Garcon. Who replaces him? well you know that I see him as a career #2, so anybody!!

Let's say that neither Grant nor Roberts can grab 70 passes but collectively they get 25 to 30 not the same but 70 translated to 3-13, let's not forget that!

In this up-coming draft, this team will get other offensive players beyond OL. Bet one is either a TE or WR!! Can't really say that getting younger, bigger with talent weakens the WR corp, but I'm betting on the new GM to prove himself exactly who we hope he is.

There's no way this team cuts him, however, his trade value will never be greater than now.

now we are talking . i dont see a 3rd or 4th round pick as value for garcon . but even at that name me a team who will give you that and take on garcon's contract ? you would end up having to cut him thus getting nothing for him

it all sounds fine and dandy , lets trade him now get a punk 3rd or 4th for him and that pick becomes a HOF'r in the land of oz

i dont see the need to do anything with garcon except perhaps do a renegotiation of his contract . in the mean time i have a quality wr corp with which to see which , if any of my qbs , can be the guy

yeah i get it , we are rebuilding but i can only wait and see the garbage we put on the field next season if we gut the team which we wont . it already is gutted . we werent 4-12 because you want to label him a # 2 wr and i bet DJAX's production will go down if he lines up with roberts or grant at the # 2 spot

hell lets send DJAX packing too and get younger and bigger at WR too . we can field a team of divison 2 prospects next season

 

[skinsdad62]

oh by the way garcon would be a number one wr on the following teams seatle , oak , jets , panthers , rams , jax, titans , chargers , chiefs , browns, ravens, dolphins , vikings and possibly the colts , 49ers , and saints

 

[Lonewate44]

oh by the way garcon would be a number one wr on the following teams seatle , oak , jets , panthers , rams , jax, titans , chargers , chiefs , browns, ravens, dolphins , vikings and possibly the colts , 49ers , and saints

AGREE!!!!!

 

[Stymietee]

oh by the way garcon would be a number one wr on the following teams seatle , oak , jets , panthers , rams , jax, titans , chargers , chiefs , browns, ravens, dolphins , vikings and possibly the colts , 49ers , and saints

Remember, you did ask me to list teams that might be interested in Garcon.....well thanks, you've answered your own question.

 

[skinsdad62]

Remember, you did ask me to list teams that might be interested in Garcon.....well thanks, you've answered your own question.

its called the contract sty . i was asked who he would be a number one wr for i listed them .

now do these teams have the cap space to do that ?

and of course i would have to answer my question because you wouldnt

 

[Sharkinva]

Remember, you did ask me to list teams that might be interested in Garcon.....well thanks, you've answered your own question.

Now answer why other than because you want him gone, would we trade him for a 3rd or later round pick? Even in a total rebuild as you suggest, you dont scrap the entire roster. Odds are we could not get a solid #2 WR with the ability to play as the #1 if needed for a 3rd round pick. If we trade or cut him, we save $5 million on the cap.. but it will cost $3 million of that to replace him.... in other words its a net loss in both talent and cap dollars.

 

[skinsdad62]

Now answer why other than because you want him gone, would we trade him for a 3rd or later round pick? Even in a total rebuild as you suggest, you dont scrap the entire roster. Odds are we could not get a solid #2 WR with the ability to play as the #1 if needed for a 3rd round pick. If we trade or cut him, we save $5 million on the cap.. but it will cost $3 million of that to replace him.... in other words its a net loss in both talent and cap dollars.

he doesnt see that . he just wants garcon gone shark for whatever reason

there is only one reason and one reason only to release garcon and that is if he is the dry snitcher

but to tell me that we can have grant and roberts combine for 30-35 catches and we will be fine is simply foolish bantor

you role coverage to DJAX and shut him down and make grant beat you . then you will be calling jackson overpaid and will want him gone next

garcon has averaged 59 catches a year for 7 seasons even after being stuck behind wayne and harrison . garcon has one of the better set of hands in the NFL , blocks well and gets good YAC

 

[j_y19]

The only way we trade Garcon is if we get something of comparable value. A 3rd or 4th round pick is no where close to comparable value for a solid, starting WR in this league. It would take a 2nd, at a minimum. Remember, we also are trying to develop a QB or 2. If you want to hamper that, get rid of one of your best WRs.

As others have said, don't go creating other problems that you have to solve. We have enough holes on this team already, we don't need to make any more. Now, if someone offers us a second round pick, I'll listen, only because of the contract hit we take with Garcon, not because he isn't a productive WR. I do agree with Sty that we are going into full rebuild mode so some of these vets with this huge contracts will be looked at with a critical eye, but I don't think they will do anything with Garcon for the reasons I've stated above. The vets that are in trouble are guys like DHall, Cofield, Chester, Bowen, Levaou, and Hatcher. Their production comes no where close to their contract values.

 

[Stymietee]

Now answer why other than because you want him gone, would we trade him for a 3rd or later round pick? Even in a total rebuild as you suggest, you dont scrap the entire roster. Odds are we could not get a solid #2 WR with the ability to play as the #1 if needed for a 3rd round pick. If we trade or cut him, we save $5 million on the cap.. but it will cost $3 million of that to replace him.... in other words its a net loss in both talent and cap dollars.

I'll let the team answer that for you. Notice one other name omitted from this letter as core players.

Redskins letter to fans doesn't list RGIII as core player - NFL ...

NFL.com - Page Not Foundredskins-letter-to-fans-doesnt-l...

 

[Stymietee]

You guys are totally forgetting one thing when you state that you cannot get value for the pick that Garcon brings, and that is Garcon himself, who was a 6th round pick. So basically no faith in Scot McGloughin.

 

[j_y19]

I'll let the team answer that for you. Notice one other name omitted from this letter as core players.

Redskins letter to fans doesn't list RGIII as core player - NFL ...

NFL.com - Page Not Foundredskins-letter-to-fans-doesnt-l...

Jordan reed wasn't on that letter, either. Guess that means they are trying to get rid of him, too?

 

[j_y19]

You guys are totally forgetting one thing when you state that you cannot get value for the pick that Garcon brings, and that is Garcon himself, who was a 6th round pick. So basically no faith in Scot McGloughin.

Really? You really think it's probable that we can draft a wr in the 6th round and he have 60+ catches next year? Really???