Boudreau needs to go

[johnnytata]

hey loco, let me throw this idea at you. i know he has taken some heat in the past couple years, but what about coaxing a guy like scott niedermeyer to play one more year. he's got some sandpaper to his game, would provide good veteran leadership, pair him up with mike green for a full season. he wouldn't have to be a marquee guy but more of a complimentary player and his experience could help keep mike green really grounded, almost like a mentor, not just to green but with carlson and alzner possibly coming up full time, they could use that too. the caps have a lot more offensive depth than the ducks and he could experience a minor resurgence.

 

[ROOLZ]

hey loco, let me throw this idea at you. i know he has taken some heat in the past couple years, but what about coaxing a guy like scott niedermeyer to play one more year. he's got some sandpaper to his game, would provide good veteran leadership, pair him up with mike green for a full season. he wouldn't have to be a marquee guy but more of a complimentary player and his experience could help keep mike green really grounded, almost like a mentor, not just to green but with carlson and alzner possibly coming up full time, they could use that too. the caps have a lot more offensive depth than the ducks and he could experience a minor resurgence.

I'd love that, or any number of older, experienced, playoff hardened players.

IMHO, having Feds on the team was highly underrated. I mean he did score the game winner in the series against the Rangers last year.

OV having a fellow Russian with the leadership and the experience Fed's had was invaluable to the team overall, and i really think the Caps missed him in the Habs series.

 

[D-sizzle]

Obviously this series has been the hot topic for the past couple of days in the hockey world. One of the angles being discussed and partly confirmed by Hal Gill in an interview on local Pittsburgh radio yesterday was that the Caps were trying to do too much individually instead of playing as a team.

I'm not sure I completely agree but an example used was with Ovie. For the last 5 minutes or so of game 7 Ovechkin was on the ice almost the entire time and seemed to just try to get the puck and beat everyone all by himself. It might be over-simplifying it a little but I could see where they were coming from.

Personally I think it was a perfect storm for Montreal where several factors all played into the final result. What do you guys think?

 

[johnnytata]

Obviously this series has been the hot topic for the past couple of days in the hockey world. One of the angles being discussed and partly confirmed by Hal Gill in an interview on local Pittsburgh radio yesterday was that the Caps were trying to do too much individually instead of playing as a team.

I'm not sure I completely agree but an example used was with Ovie. For the last 5 minutes or so of game 7 Ovechkin was on the ice almost the entire time and seemed to just try to get the puck and beat everyone all by himself. It might be over-simplifying it a little but I could see where they were coming from.

Personally I think it was a perfect storm for Montreal where several factors all played into the final result. What do you guys think?

these are great points and why veteran leadership from a player who has been there-done that is so important. when it comes to crunch time, these guys are human too, they get anxious, and when highly skilled, highly competent people get anxious, their tendency is to trust themselves more than anyone else. a vet, like fedorov could have pulled ov aside and calmed him down, kept his perspective, sometimes more effectively than a coach. the majority of the players on this team are 25 or younger.

almost every team has to go through a lot of adversity before they can achieve success, especially when the players are young and carry so much burden so early.

 

[Urkie]

There are a lot of ways to play winning hockey in the playoffs. I see a lot of good posts from really good fans in this thread who obviously know and play hockey, and then I see a lot of garbage from fans of other teams who throw criticism at the Caps that doesn't make any sense and doesn't reflect anything that actually occurred in this series. The Caps didn't play dump and chase? What are you talking about? They absolutely did. And no, he didn't keep things the same. Look at my post above again. And an all-out offensive force? They gave up 66 shots in the last 3 games. That's not careless, irresponsible hockey. They played pretty well on defense. They don't have the best players in that department, but besides Mike Green who was just losing pucks off his stick while skating with it for no reason, the D guys did pretty well. Poti and Carlson were downright excellent.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Pens are not a stellar defensive unit, are they? They've gone to two straight Stanley Cup finals. And the two best defensive teams in the Eastern conference are also gone right now, are they not? So clearly there is no magic formula for the playoffs that the Caps simply refuse to embrace. This isn't something that Boudreau just "doesn't get." They scored 19 goals in the first 4 games and then Halak just became incredible. If they had lost a bunch of games 5-4, I'd see your point. But they lost 2 of the last 3 games 2-1. Guys didn't execute. It was clearly working and then it wasn't. The goalie got hot, things tighten, and the goal gets smaller. That's hockey.

Did you even watch the series? If they lost b/c of lousy, awful defense, I would agree with you, Urkie, but that's not what happened here. Their offense and power play failed them. Again, guys didn't execute. And I could be wrong, but I don't think much changes in the playoffs on a 5-on-4 situation. You pass it around for open shots, create traffic, and try to get it home. It didn't happen. That's on the players and give credit to Halak and the effort of the Habs' defensive players.

For all the talk of how the playoffs are so different than the season, here's how it went down...

Caps-Habs - split season series, series goes to 7 games
Devils-Flyers - Flyers dominate 5-1 in the season and 4-1 in the playoffs
Bruins-Sabres - Bruins won season series 4-2, playoffs = same
Senators-Pens - split season series, pretty tight series with 4 OT frames

Canucks-Kings - Canucks win season 3-1 and playoff series 4-2
Sharks-Avs - Split season, Sharks win in 6 but Avs were very close early on
Blackhawks-Preds - Hawks win season 4-2, playoffs = same
Wings-Coyotes - split season series, seesaw playoff series goes to 7 games

Sure, playoff hockey is more physical, there are fewer penalties generally, and guys play harder, faster, and you can plan on tighter Ds and wild goalie swings.

But low and behold, all the teams that won the season series (even though their overall record wasn't as good), also won the playoff series. So it seems to me that while there is a difference in playoff hockey, it's overstated and a little cliche. Four of the season series were won by one team, and they ALL won their playoff series by a nearly identical margin. Four of the season series were split, and they ALL went to 6 or 7 games and were close series.

This is because of matchups!!! Some teams are simply tougher opponents for others. The Devils killed the Caps this year, but the Flyers (who we destroyed) mauled them. Matchups. If you face a hot goalie during the season, you're on a plane to play somebody else the next day and don't see him for a month. But if he heats up in the playoffs, you have to face him again the next game.

Some teams match up better against others. It was a bad draw for the Caps and our guys on offense simply didn't convert when they had the chances. That part is not on Boudreau and it is not because of careless, sloppy defense either. Frankly, I wish it was on the guy b/c it's a lot easier to just replace the coach than dissect the team. But I don't think that was the problem here. And if it was, the tired stereotypes of the Capitals you've presented have nothing to do with the way this series was played.

The Caps were utterly and completely dominant in every facet of the game (save goalie) in game 7. It just didn't go in the net. Thems the breaks and that's why hockey is sometimes a cruel, devious mistress.

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. I did watch the entire series and that's what I felt I saw. I'm not hating on the Caps or anything or singling them out. I really feel like it was some kind of coaching problem because I don't think you can just chalk it up to Halak standing on his head.

Perhaps bringing in my boy Volchenkov would really help you guys next year...

 

[ROOLZ]

Obviously this series has been the hot topic for the past couple of days in the hockey world. One of the angles being discussed and partly confirmed by Hal Gill in an interview on local Pittsburgh radio yesterday was that the Caps were trying to do too much individually instead of playing as a team.

I'm not sure I completely agree but an example used was with Ovie. For the last 5 minutes or so of game 7 Ovechkin was on the ice almost the entire time and seemed to just try to get the puck and beat everyone all by himself. It might be over-simplifying it a little but I could see where they were coming from.

Personally I think it was a perfect storm for Montreal where several factors all played into the final result. What do you guys think?

I think it sucked.. BIG TIME!

 

[D-sizzle]

I think it sucked.. BIG TIME!

lol that's not what I meant ROOLZ but I hear ya man.

I obviously didn't bother me like it did you and other Caps fans but I honestly was pissed. I wanted the rematch.

At least we get the winter classic next year huh?

 

[D-sizzle]

these are great points and why veteran leadership from a player who has been there-done that is so important. when it comes to crunch time, these guys are human too, they get anxious, and when highly skilled, highly competent people get anxious, their tendency is to trust themselves more than anyone else. a vet, like fedorov could have pulled ov aside and calmed him down, kept his perspective, sometimes more effectively than a coach. the majority of the players on this team are 25 or younger.

almost every team has to go through a lot of adversity before they can achieve success, especially when the players are young and carry so much burden so early.

good post johnnytata. Veteran presence is always discussed and obviously has some merit.

The only negative thing I can say about Budreau is that he might get too emotional himself sometimes. Other than that I think he's a good coach and definitely should be retained.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

Give some credit to the Habs. They got the goaltending and it seemed like every player on that team was willing to sacrifice them self to win.

Those guys were blocking shots left and right (both d-man and forwards) Bottom line is they played as a team that wanted it more than the Caps.

The Caps did play as individuals and were not willing to lay it on the line when it counted. I like the Caps and certainly thought they would punch the Habs out in five games.

After last season the Caps players said they learned from the experience but from what I saw it didn't show in their play.

There situation was similar to the Pens before they made the coaching change and it made a big difference. I will take team play and hustle to win 90% of the time esp in the playoffs

Just my two cents.

 

[elocomotive]

I don't think the Caps lack "team" play. They have some of the best passing sequences of any team in the league. Give the Habs credit there, they disrupted some of that, but I saw a lot of really nice passes from the Caps in the series save maybe the 2nd line (Semin, Fleischmann) which was one of the best 2nd lines in the league all year and was invisible in this series.

As for Nieds, I don't know. I don't think the team is too lacking in the vet leadership department - Knuble, Poti, Morrison, those guys have been around. Obviously Nieds is a guy like that brings a lot to the table. What I'd like to see is them bring in another blue liner that is big, physical, and defensive-minded (but I'd rather it be a guy with at least a few more years in him), limit Green's minutes and use him primarily on the PP, and if they have to trade Semin to make that happen, so be it. I think trading Green would be okay too, b/c he's just been a choking dog the last two years. I don't think you want to let go of both of these guys - but they'd have trade value for a team trying to make the playoffs (they'd sell tickets, they contribute offensively, both good PP players) and I don't think we can afford them both come the '11-'12 season when young stars like Carlson, Varly, and others will need new contracts. So maybe you make a move this offseason to bolster your defense and put you in a better cap situation down the road. Maybe Niedermayer is the guy, or maybe somebody else.

As for Feds, he was okay. He had the big playoff goal, but Morrison/Knuble have been WAY better than Fedorov/Kozlov in terms of fit, physicality, defensive effort, and offensive production. That was basically the veteran forward swap we did from '09 to '10. Knuble has been a much better linemate with OV than Feds ever was and Kozlov was slow and none too dangerous.

 

[johnnytata]

i don't know. giving up on a 70 point d-man seems like just too much. sure he may be a defensive liability and has been mia in the last 2 playoffs, but these guys are a once in a generation type players and NO WAY you would ever get equal value.

remember, these guys are only 2 full years into this. i maintain you dont make huge changes right after a huge collapse like this, you keep it together and see if they learn from the adversity (and i dont wanna hear that they choked last year too, they lost to a great team and eventual stanley cup champs).

 

[islander4cups]

i don't know. giving up on a 70 point d-man seems like just too much. sure he may be a defensive liability and has been mia in the last 2 playoffs, but these guys are a once in a generation type players and NO WAY you would ever get equal value.

remember, these guys are only 2 full years into this. i maintain you dont make huge changes right after a huge collapse like this, you keep it together and see if they learn from the adversity (and i dont wanna hear that they choked last year too, they lost to a great team and eventual stanley cup champs).

The Caps can't get equal value for Green because they'd have to get a forward who doesn't backcheck but scores and gets overpaid at 6 mill per the next few seasons. The Caps can definitely have addition by subtraction and they can do that by starting with two moves...

Dump Semin
Dump Green

These are two of the most overrated players in the league. They eat up cap space, disappear at playoffs and both are defensive liabilities. The fact that Green is nominated for the Norris is a disgrace.

But what cracks me up is this...people are calling for Bruce B's head...WHAT ABOUT GEORGE MCPHEE? A coach can only coach the talent he has, not the talent he WANTS. McPhee has put together a poor defensive team that yes, with the exception of guys like Brooks Laich and Knuble is rather 1-D on offense. However, this team played more than well enough to win this series in 6 games, but it was stolen by the goalie. Is that a cop out? No.

BEcause this team doesn't have the D to go deep into the playoffs. Say what you want about Pitt's weak d, and it is imho and they won't win the cup this year due to it, but the Caps D ALWAYS gave up their own blueline and the top half of their zone. The Habs may have had only 16 shots in game 7, but 13 were excellent scoring chances because the Caps D never makes a team fight to get into their zone. The Caps D doesn't challenge players physically in front of their net.

And it is George McPhee who assembled this group of talent, not Bruce. Remember, McPhee knew he needed rugged crease clearing dmen at the deadline and didn't get one when he could have gotten that type of a 2nd round pick.

The Caps don't have the talent to have a "defense first" team. They need to build up their blueline plain and simple. They also need a legit second line that won't disappear each spring like Semin does.

 

[smo5039]

Well... You do bring up a good point about Mcphee. If they do decide to move Green or Semin, I think it's gonna be quite difficult given the money they gave those two. Those are bad contracts. Semin at 6 and Green at 5. Nobody wants to take on that type of cap hit.

and with your other point about the pens, I am assuming you are calling them weak because Scuds is gone. Because Hal Gill was addition by Subtraction. You are right they probably aren't as defensive minded (Goligoski, Leopold) with those two in but they aint chopped liver on the back end. Mckee is rather slow but is physical and I would compare him to Scuderi. Blocks a TON of shots.

 

[Pandolph20]

Heres what I think...

A. I give the Canadiens more credit than the Caps by a longshot x2. This is not me just ripping the Caps for the sake of dislike. Im giving my honest opinion here.....THE CAPS ARE A ONE TRICK PONY right now. Do I think they have a shitload of talent? Hell yeah. Do I think they were the best team in the regular season? Abso-fucking-lutely!
Do I think Bodreau needs to go? YES.

B. Bodreau, in my eyes, had trouble making adjustments all series. He was outcoached. Yes, as stated earlier, they outshot Montreal badly, the only problem is, shots on goal dont mean squat unless you put them in. Why didnt they score? Didnt capitalize on second chances, lacked traffic in front, too much shooting? Is it possible being gunslingers backfired in their face? That could all be speculation but the fact is, Montreal didnt just get lucky, someone is to blame for this loss and it isnt OV or Mike Green or even the goalie, I think its Bodreau.

C. They need a better coach. Period. You dont lose to the 8 seed as the Presidents trophy winner and expect to not get ripped.

 

[h X c Chris]

This thread is hysterical, I wonder what everyone is going to say if the Canadiens come back to win round 2 as well, should the Penguins go into a fire sale? Yeah dump Semin and Green, that'll work out! Losing a guy that was 76 points in 75 games, and oh wait he plays defense? He must be horrible at his job I mean he's only a +39. What a liability.

Just give him away caps fans...he's worthless. Flyers will gladly take him off your hands >=D

Ovechkin can just score 110-120 goals a season to make up for the 60-70 goals they'll lose from Semin and Green.

 

[elocomotive]

The Caps don't have the talent to have a "defense first" team. They need to build up their blueline plain and simple. They also need a legit second line that won't disappear each spring like Semin does.

To be fair, Schultz came into his own this year, finally using that huge body to play good D. He improved a TON and should continue to develop as a player. Alzner and Carlson both played about 20 games with the season and are likely going to be full-time Capitals next season - both are solid blue liners. The D is getting better through many of their draft picks. With those 3 guys in place and if they use Green less as their top defensive line and more as a secondary D-man and power play performer, this team is a year and one free agent from having a defense that could be very good.

I don't expect the Caps to change the plan a lot, but make some tweaks. Maybe that means Semin or Green are gone, maybe not. But I see a lot of knee jerk reaction from fans in this thread who really don't know this team.

Also, someone above said Semin and Green have no trade value - are you f#$#ing insane? Semin is a 40-goal scorer. Plenty of teams struggling to make the playoffs would love a guy like that. And plenty of teams could use a guy like Green on the power play and might think they could turn the guy into a better defender. Both of these guys have a TON of trade value. I hope they don't trade them both, but I could see one of them leaving town. We'll wait and see.

 

[loki604]

The Caps can't get equal value for Green because they'd have to get a forward who doesn't backcheck but scores and gets overpaid at 6 mill per the next few seasons. The Caps can definitely have addition by subtraction and they can do that by starting with two moves...

Dump Semin
Dump Green

These are two of the most overrated players in the league. They eat up cap space, disappear at playoffs and both are defensive liabilities. The fact that Green is nominated for the Norris is a disgrace.

But what cracks me up is this...people are calling for Bruce B's head...WHAT ABOUT GEORGE MCPHEE? A coach can only coach the talent he has, not the talent he WANTS. McPhee has put together a poor defensive team that yes, with the exception of guys like Brooks Laich and Knuble is rather 1-D on offense. However, this team played more than well enough to win this series in 6 games, but it was stolen by the goalie. Is that a cop out? No.

BEcause this team doesn't have the D to go deep into the playoffs. Say what you want about Pitt's weak d, and it is imho and they won't win the cup this year due to it, but the Caps D ALWAYS gave up their own blueline and the top half of their zone. The Habs may have had only 16 shots in game 7, but 13 were excellent scoring chances because the Caps D never makes a team fight to get into their zone. The Caps D doesn't challenge players physically in front of their net.

And it is George McPhee who assembled this group of talent, not Bruce. Remember, McPhee knew he needed rugged crease clearing dmen at the deadline and didn't get one when he could have gotten that type of a 2nd round pick.

The Caps don't have the talent to have a "defense first" team. They need to build up their blueline plain and simple. They also need a legit second line that won't disappear each spring like Semin does.

The reason I'm not calling for GMGM's head is because I think the group is capable of winning. At the very least they should have been able to get to the conference finals. Are their moves I would make? Sure, and getting rid of Semin is one of the them. But I still think they lost this series because of coaching. As for the D, I agree it was poor to say the least, but they still could have won if BB had made some adjustments to the overall game plan.

 

[islander4cups]

Well... You do bring up a good point about Mcphee. If they do decide to move Green or Semin, I think it's gonna be quite difficult given the money they gave those two. Those are bad contracts. Semin at 6 and Green at 5. Nobody wants to take on that type of cap hit.

and with your other point about the pens, I am assuming you are calling them weak because Scuds is gone. Because Hal Gill was addition by Subtraction. You are right they probably aren't as defensive minded (Goligoski, Leopold) with those two in but they aint chopped liver on the back end. Mckee is rather slow but is physical and I would compare him to Scuderi. Blocks a TON of shots.

I understand your point about Gill as an individual, but he and Scuds together were easily the best D pairing they've had since their 90's cup runs. Losing Scuderi was a blow to their d because they don't have a defensive dman who's better right now and I don't think they have a legit top pairing that can shut down a top line the way Scuds and Gill did last year. Even if you want to say that pairing was only a top pairing in their playing level for the playoffs last year, that's fine, but I don't see a Dpair for the Pens who will fill that role this year, which is why I think they will be exposed by any of 3 possible western teams they could face this year.

As for Green, his contract will make it impossible to get equal value, but Semin is a UFA after next season so whomever they trade him to is only paying that for a season. Though I'm sure no one is likely to look at him as a rental that will take LESS money to stay. Unfortunately, the Caps really screwed up his market value.

 

[ritari330]

For the record, GMGM says Burce will be back

washingtonpost.com

 

[islander4cups]

The reason I'm not calling for GMGM's head is because I think the group is capable of winning. At the very least they should have been able to get to the conference finals. Are their moves I would make? Sure, and getting rid of Semin is one of the them. But I still think they lost this series because of coaching. As for the D, I agree it was poor to say the least, but they still could have won if BB had made some adjustments to the overall game plan.

How can you say he didn't adjust? He juggled the offensive lineup sitting Fleshmen for one. When you get 40+ and 50+ shots on net in the last two games, it isn't because you aren't shooting or getting good shots.

What would have had him do differently? The truth of the matter is the Caps are not BUILT for playoff hockey. They need fewer Semin's and more Knubles and Laich type players. It is McPhee's job to get them. He had his chance to get big crease clearers on d and a sandpaper guy at the deadline...didn't do it.