Blind Comparison Thread

[MilkSpiller22]

OPS is far more useful than freaking quality starts

Of course it is... as i have said that QS is only good to show consistency... Consistency in the big scheme of things is just a small part of a player...

 

[Villain]

Well, not really... Since no single stat should be used as the all ultimate stat, finding ways to use a stat is what they are for...

Who is advocating an ultimate stat?

and the more stats you use the better... I have never said QS is the best stat, but i do think it is the best stat out there to measure consistency... and until there is a better one, i will be using it... I feel like QS gets a bad wrap because people can't look past the 4.5 ERA... But don't realize that ERA is irrelevant to the stat...

ERA is absolutely relevant to QS. While we're here, let me add that I also don't like to use ERA.

But again, if you can show me a percent stat that shows consistency better, than i am happy to use it instead... But remember, the first rule for a successful stat is for it to be easy to use and easy to understand...

I already advocated that a graph would be much more useful to demonstrate consistency (or lack thereof) and you dismissed that because you like numbers. In that case, just look at the raw numbers without the graphical representation.

Anyways, there's no such thing as a consistency stat. QS doesn't really show that either. If you're looking at an entire careers' worth of numbers - literally thousands of innings pitched - the sample size is often far and away large enough to smooth out the dips and valleys.

I challenge you to find me two players with close to identical ERA+, thousands of innings pitched apiece, and with one being far more/less consistent than the other as best demonstrated by their QSs. Twin pitchers on the surface, one far more volatile than the other.

 

[StanMarsh51]

The players are:





JACK MORRIS (A): 254-186 record, 3824 IP, 3.90 ERA (105 ERA+), 1.30 WHIP, 1.78 K/BB, 43.8 WAR, 32.8 WAR7
DENNIS MARTINEZ (A): 245-193 record, 4000 IP, 3.70 ERA (106 ERA+), 1.27 WHIP, 1.84 K/BB, 49.5 WAR, 33.5 WAR7

 

[navamind]

The players are:





JACK MORRIS (A): 254-186 record, 3824 IP, 3.90 ERA (105 ERA+), 1.30 WHIP, 1.78 K/BB, 43.8 WAR, 32.8 WAR7
DENNIS MARTINEZ (A): 245-193 record, 4000 IP, 3.70 ERA (106 ERA+), 1.27 WHIP, 1.84 K/BB, 49.5 WAR, 33.5 WAR7

but... but... game 7!!!

 

[StanMarsh51]

Next one:

Both pitchers played during the same era...

A: 139-78 record, 2026 IP, 3.20 ERA (136 ERA+), 1.13 WHIP, 3.51 K/BB, 50.7 WAR, 44.8 WAR7, 65% QS
B: 147-105 record, 2325 IP, 3.11 ERA (129 ERA+), 1.17 WHIP, 3.35 K/BB, 51.0 WAR, 38.4 WAR7, 68% QS

 

[Villain]

Pitcher A

 

[navamind]

A.

 

[DHoey]

A

 

[Villain]

Next one:

Both pitchers played during the same era...

A: 139-78 record, 2026 IP, 3.20 ERA (136 ERA+), 1.13 WHIP, 3.51 K/BB, 50.7 WAR, 44.8 WAR7, 65% QS
B: 147-105 record, 2325 IP, 3.11 ERA (129 ERA+), 1.17 WHIP, 3.35 K/BB, 51.0 WAR, 38.4 WAR7, 68% QS

How many IBBs does each pitcher have? That's the only stat that measures how big of a pussy each one was.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Next one:

Both pitchers played during the same era...

A: 139-78 record, 2026 IP, 3.20 ERA (136 ERA+), 1.13 WHIP, 3.51 K/BB, 50.7 WAR, 44.8 WAR7, 65% QS
B: 147-105 record, 2325 IP, 3.11 ERA (129 ERA+), 1.17 WHIP, 3.35 K/BB, 51.0 WAR, 38.4 WAR7, 68% QS

the WAR7 is a pretty big difference for such similar careers... and Player A's WAR and WAR7 are so close to each other...

So Player A must have had the significantly better best seasons but must have not played to well afterwards...

Since i care more about prime and best seasons, i have to go A... But it is clear that B was a more consistent pitcher and for much longer...

 

[Omar 382]

Without FIP, xFIP, K/9, BB/9, HR/FB ratio, FIP-, and a WAR based on FIP, I find it very hard to compare pitchers

 

[StanMarsh51]

Looks like player A is pick....

Player A - JOHAN SANTANA
139-78 record, 2026 IP, 3.20 ERA (136 ERA+), 1.13 WHIP, 3.51 K/BB, 50.7 WAR, 44.8 WAR7, 65% QS

Player B - FELIX HERNANDEZ
147-105 record, 2325 IP, 3.11 ERA (129 ERA+), 1.17 WHIP, 3.35 K/BB, 51.0 WAR, 38.4 WAR7, 68% QS

 

[StanMarsh51]

Next comparison:

A -.297 AVG, .858 OPS/125 OPS+, 281 HR, 1257 RBI, 1366 R, 2336 H, 147 SB (63%), 49.4 WAR, 37.5 WAR7
B- .318 AVG, .837 OPS/124 OPS+, 207 HR, 1085 RBI, 1071 R, 2304 H, 134 SB (64%), 50.4 WAR, 37.5 WAR7

Both played the same position, and player A played during the '90s-'00s while player B played during the '80s-'90S.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Next comparison:

A -.297 AVG, .858 OPS/125 OPS+, 281 HR, 1257 RBI, 1366 R, 2336 H, 147 SB (63%), 49.4 WAR, 37.5 WAR7
B- .318 AVG, .837 OPS/124 OPS+, 207 HR, 1085 RBI, 1071 R, 2304 H, 134 SB (64%), 50.4 WAR, 37.5 WAR7

Both played the same position, and player A played during the '90s-'00s while player B played during the '80s-'90S.

This is the first blind comparison with the stats given, I have no answer... nor am I leaning towards either side... It looks like @StanMarsh51 wanted to create a tie...

I will ask for HR%. XBH%, BB%, and total PA

Not a fan of counting stats without including PA...

 

[JohnU]

For QS, I think it's relevant to the rest of the team, but not to the pitcher who records it. The objective is to shorten the game, and QS usually just means not having to go to lesser quality pitchers early. Otherwise, it seems fairly inane.

 

[JohnU]

Next comparison:

A -.297 AVG, .858 OPS/125 OPS+, 281 HR, 1257 RBI, 1366 R, 2336 H, 147 SB (63%), 49.4 WAR, 37.5 WAR7
B- .318 AVG, .837 OPS/124 OPS+, 207 HR, 1085 RBI, 1071 R, 2304 H, 134 SB (64%), 50.4 WAR, 37.5 WAR7

Both played the same position, and player A played during the '90s-'00s while player B played during the '80s-'90S.

Do you have photos of their wives?

 

[Chewbaccer]

Next one:

Both pitchers played during the same era...

A: 139-78 record, 2026 IP, 3.20 ERA (136 ERA+), 1.13 WHIP, 3.51 K/BB, 50.7 WAR, 44.8 WAR7, 65% QS
B: 147-105 record, 2325 IP, 3.11 ERA (129 ERA+), 1.17 WHIP, 3.35 K/BB, 51.0 WAR, 38.4 WAR7, 68% QS

A

 

[DragonfromTO]

This is the first blind comparison with the stats given, I have no answer... nor am I leaning towards either side... It looks like @StanMarsh51 wanted to create a tie...

I will ask for HR%. XBH%, BB%, and total PA

Not a fan of counting stats without including PA...

Sure, but there's more to it than that. You haven't figured out who the two players are?

 

[Villain]

Next comparison:

A -.297 AVG, .858 OPS/125 OPS+, 281 HR, 1257 RBI, 1366 R, 2336 H, 147 SB (63%), 49.4 WAR, 37.5 WAR7
B- .318 AVG, .837 OPS/124 OPS+, 207 HR, 1085 RBI, 1071 R, 2304 H, 134 SB (64%), 50.4 WAR, 37.5 WAR7

Both played the same position, and player A played during the '90s-'00s while player B played during the '80s-'90S.

wOBA? wRC+? K%? BB%?

 

[Villain]

Looks like player A is pick....

Player A - JOHAN SANTANA
139-78 record, 2026 IP, 3.20 ERA (136 ERA+), 1.13 WHIP, 3.51 K/BB, 50.7 WAR, 44.8 WAR7, 65% QS

Player B - FELIX HERNANDEZ
147-105 record, 2325 IP, 3.11 ERA (129 ERA+), 1.17 WHIP, 3.35 K/BB, 51.0 WAR, 38.4 WAR7, 68% QS

Major League Leaderboards » 2016 » Pitchers » Advanced Statistics | FanGraphs Baseball

Great selection. Easy to forget how good Johan used to be.