Bill Simmons trade idea

[shopson67]

So you are saying trading Simmons for AD would be the same as trading Fultz for Kawhi??

Sorry, but that is an extremely, extremely, extremely poor analogy. And I am being very nice when I put it that way.

Of course not. I was just tracing the Sixers homerism to the next logical trade target.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Of course not. I was just tracing the Sixers homerism to the next logical trade target.

So then address my other point: If AD came out tomorrow and said I will not resign, and I want out ASAP, then does Simmons become a viable trade prospect?

Under other circumstances maybe not but under those circumstances I would say the answer is easily yes.

 

[shopson67]

So then address my other point: If AD came out tomorrow and said I will not resign, and I want out ASAP, then does Simmons become a viable trade prospect?

Under other circumstances maybe not but under those circumstances I would say the answer is easily yes.

I don't see how he fits the Pelicans roster whatsoever (and AD similarly does not fit the Sixers' biggest needs either). They're both big names (AD obviously bigger), but the trade makes no sense.

 

[returnofjakedog]

I don't see how he fits the Pelicans roster whatsoever (and AD similarly does not fit the Sixers' biggest needs either). They're both big names (AD obviously bigger), but the trade makes no sense.

If AD insisted that he would not resign and demanded a trade, then whether Simmons would fit on the Pels roster would irrelevant because they would be going in to a rebuild or restructure phaze. The Sixers point of view is a bit more tricky but AD made it work with Cousins and I could see it working by surrounding them with 3 and D guys. I don't know if they would do it or not but it is certainly worth considering.

If AD demanded a trade then something would have give. What would be acceptable then? Because letting him walk for nothing certainly wouldn't. You are just shooting down the trade option but not providing any ideas for what NOLA would do if backed into a corner.

 

[shopson67]

If AD insisted that he would not resign and demanded a trade, then whether Simmons would fit on the Pels roster would irrelevant because they would be going in to a rebuild or restructure phaze. The Sixers point of view is a bit more tricky but AD made it work with Cousins and I could see it working by surrounding them with 3 and D guys. I don't know if they would do it or not but it is certainly worth considering.

If AD demanded a trade then something would have give. What would be acceptable then? Because letting him walk for nothing certainly wouldn't. You are just shooting down the trade option but not providing any ideas for what NOLA would do if backed into a corner.

The Sixers will need more than 3 and D guys; they'll need play makers without any true PGs or Simmons (McConnell alone won't get it done). They'll have no more trade pieces to get these players, and cap space will become an issue.

There will be plenty of trade offers if NOLA decides to make AD available, it's not my job to work all of that out. If they choose to pick Simmons (who I doubt will even be offered) out of all those options, more power to them (and I anticipate them missing the playoffs for another 5 years).

 

[trojanfan12]

The Sixers point of view is a bit more tricky but AD made it work with Cousins and I could see it working by surrounding them with 3 and D guys. I don't know if they would do it or not but it is certainly worth considering.

I don't know. I tend to agree with @shopson67 on this. Name for name, it's a good trade, but not when you're talking about what each team, specifically the Sixers, needs.

Sure, it doesn't really matter to the Pels because, as you point out, they'd be going into rebuild/restructure mode anyway. As currently constructed, the Pelicans are unlikely to ever be much better than they are right now.

But for the Sixers, who look to be contenders, it would require them making other changes to their roster that they really don't need to make at this point. The Sixers need experience and a minor tweak or 2 to be contenders, not the restructuring that this trade would represent.

 

[flyerhawk]

I don't know. I tend to agree with @shopson67 on this. Name for name, it's a good trade, but not when you're talking about what each team, specifically the Sixers, needs.

Sure, it doesn't really matter to the Pels because, as you point out, they'd be going into rebuild/restructure mode anyway. As currently constructed, the Pelicans are unlikely to ever be much better than they are right now.

But for the Sixers, who look to be contenders, it would require them making other changes to their roster that they really don't need to make at this point. The Sixers need experience and a minor tweak or 2 to be contenders, not the restructuring that this trade would represent.

I generally agree that the Sixers likely wouldn't want to make this deal. But is it possible that a Pop student would want to recreate the early Spurs teams? Maybe. But I doubt it.

I fundamentally disagree that the Pelicans would say no to that trade if they felt they had to trade AD. IMO, if the AD situation got to the point of a trade being inevitable they would snap this deal up in a second. It is hard to envision any team being willing and able to offer more than that.

And, LOL, at @shopson calling Sixer fans homers because they highly rate Simmons. I mean, he's no Josh Hart but apparently there are some non-Sixer fans who think he is pretty good.

 

[trojanfan12]

I fundamentally disagree that the Pelicans would say no to that trade if they felt they had to trade AD. IMO, if the AD situation got to the point of a trade being inevitable they would snap this deal up in a second. It is hard to envision any team being willing and able to offer more than that.

Agree 100% that the Pels would take that in a heartbeat. They're essentially replacing a franchise player in his prime with a likely franchise player who hasn't hit his prime yet. They'd be crazy not to take that.

The Sixers are the ones who should reject that trade.

 

[flyerhawk]

Agree 100% that the Pels would take that in a heartbeat. They're essentially replacing a franchise player in his prime with a likely franchise player who hasn't hit his prime yet. They'd be crazy not to take that.

The Sixers are the ones who should reject that trade.

Yup. The only way they would even think of making that deal is if they thought that the Embiid/Simmons pairing can't work. Even then it would be unlikely. And I don't think they believe that for a second.

 

[shopson67]

And, LOL, at @shopson calling Sixer fans homers because they highly rate Simmons. I mean, he's no Josh Hart but apparently there are some non-Sixer fans who think he is pretty good.

It was the incredulousness that seemed to be in every post that anyone would think that Simmons wasn't on par with AD.

I love Josh Hart; he's actually my fave of the current homegrown Lakers. Doesn't mean he's the best of the group or a standout talent, I just like the way he plays the game. Wish he wasn't missing so many 3s lately, lol.

You mentioned Pop, how does Simmons fit with a Spurs discussion? Exactly who are you comparing him to?

 

[tlance]

I don't know. I tend to agree with @shopson67 on this. Name for name, it's a good trade, but not when you're talking about what each team, specifically the Sixers, needs.

Sure, it doesn't really matter to the Pels because, as you point out, they'd be going into rebuild/restructure mode anyway. As currently constructed, the Pelicans are unlikely to ever be much better than they are right now.

But for the Sixers, who look to be contenders, it would require them making other changes to their roster that they really don't need to make at this point. The Sixers need experience and a minor tweak or 2 to be contenders, not the restructuring that this trade would represent.

That has been my point all along.

Not a great trade for Philly. They won't do this.

Amazingly good trade for NO.

@shopson67 says it would be a bad trade for both because of fit. As I said multiple times, fit doesn't matter for them if they decide to trade AD. Because they would be reshaping their entire roster anyway.

 

[tlance]

Shame on you for comparing Simmons to Lebron or Jordan. Lebron has averaged at least 3 3pt attempts per game since his rookie year (his worst percentage year at 29%). Simmons is taking over 90% of his shots within 10 ft; Lebron's career average from that range is 48%, and topped out at 57%. That 90% is Andre Drummond range. It's great that Simmons can pass and rebound, but calling him a point GUARD is ludicrous. He shoots like an old-school center.

At least Fultz seemingly has excuses for his shooting woes.

First off,

I don't think I did compare Simmons to either. I simply named two players who were poor shooters early in their careers.

And you make some really big assumptions here. Simmons isn't incapable of shooting 3s. He simply chooses not to because he isn't efficient enough yet.

I would argue that shooting 0 3s is probably not any worse than shooting 3 a game at 30%.

Simmons is not ever going to be Klay Thompson, but he will start shooting 3s at some point. And my bet is that he won't be terrible at shooting them when he does.

 

[Shanemansj13]

First off,

I don't think I did compare Simmons to either. I simply named two players who were poor shooters early in their careers.

And you make some really big assumptions here. Simmons isn't incapable of shooting 3s. He simply chooses not to because he isn't efficient enough yet.

I would argue that shooting 0 3s is probably not any worse than shooting 3 a game at 30%.

Simmons is not ever going to be Klay Thompson, but he will start shooting 3s at some point. And my bet is that he won't be terrible at shooting them when he does.

Well if you are the Sixers you HOPE he starts expanding his game and you hope he starts soon. Even if he isn't a great shooter, he needs to shoot is the point. I will take 3 years of shooting around 30% to eventually form a jumpshot. I mean lets take Lebron for example: Coming out he wasn't going to be a great 3 point shooter and that was actually one of his weaknesses. In his first 5 years he shot: 31%, 35%, 32%, 31%, 34% from 3. The point is he struggled but he worked on his shot and continued to improve. One year he shot close to 41%.

The more in-game shooting he does, the more confidence it gives him. Then by the time you know it, players have to at least respect that shot a little and it opens up his driving ability even more which also leads to more open shots for his teammates. There is no excuse for not shooting when we see in practice, he CAN shoot.

 

[flyerhawk]

It was the incredulousness that seemed to be in every post that anyone would think that Simmons wasn't on par with AD.

Not s single Sixer fan said that Simmons was on par with AD. Every one of us was referring to their trade value which is not the same thing as their basketball value. This was stated numerous times.

I love Josh Hart; he's actually my fave of the current homegrown Lakers. Doesn't mean he's the best of the group or a standout talent, I just like the way he plays the game. Wish he wasn't missing so many 3s lately, lol.

You mentioned Pop, how does Simmons fit with a Spurs discussion? Exactly who are you comparing him to?

Not interested in engaging a round and round of you asking me for the comparisons and then saying how absurd they are.

 

[tlance]

Well if you are the Sixers you HOPE he starts expanding his game and you hope he starts soon. Even if he isn't a great shooter, he needs to shoot is the point. I will take 3 years of shooting around 30% to eventually form a jumpshot. I mean lets take Lebron for example: Coming out he wasn't going to be a great 3 point shooter and that was actually one of his weaknesses. In his first 5 years he shot: 31%, 35%, 32%, 31%, 34% from 3. The point is he struggled but he worked on his shot and continued to improve. One year he shot close to 41%.

The more in-game shooting he does, the more confidence it gives him. Then by the time you know it, players have to at least respect that shot a little and it opens up his driving ability even more which also leads to more open shots for his teammates. There is no excuse for not shooting when we see in practice, he CAN shoot.

I disagree somewhat.

Eventually he does have to start taking them.

But, this isn't the same situation as the early years of LeBron. The 6ers are a contender to win the East. Also, Simmons might not be able to hit at 30% yet. If he is hitting like 28%, then anything more than the occasional attempt is hurting his team. AND, it isn't really helping his drive game if he shoots poorly. Because defenders will only respect it once he proves he can hit at a decent clip.

Lastly, we don't know for sure why Simmons doesn't take 3s. But, in my experience, 99.9% of players like taking shots. If Simmons isn't taking 3s, it is most likely because Brett Brown and 6ers staff have yet to give him the green light.

 

[shopson67]

Not interested in engaging a round and round of you asking me for the comparisons and then saying how absurd they are.

So you're admitting it's a weak comparison before even stating it. We're making progress.

 

[flyerhawk]

So you're admitting it's a weak comparison before even stating it. We're making progress.

No. I understand when someone is trying to corner a discussion to suit their preferences.

First off I WASN'T saying that Simmons would be a good fit in the Pop system. I said that the Sixers could theoretically like the idea of Simmons for AD trade because the Sixers would try to emulate the early Pop system with Embiid being David Robinson and AD being Tim Duncan.

But since you were obsesses with negging Simmons you twisted that into me saying that they wanted Simmons to fit into the Pop system.

I have absolutely no idea why you choose to be the ONE guy saying that the Pels would never want Simmons for AD. Feel free to die on that absurd hill. I guess it ruins your dreams of a AD for Lonzo and Kuzma deal. But don't worry, the Sixers aren't trading Simmons so you only have to worry about the Celtics.

 

[tlance]

No. I understand when someone is trying to corner a discussion to suit their preferences.

First off I WASN'T saying that Simmons would be a good fit in the Pop system. I said that the Sixers could theoretically like the idea of Simmons for AD trade because the Sixers would try to emulate the early Pop system with Embiid being David Robinson and AD being Tim Duncan.

But since you were obsesses with negging Simmons you twisted that into me saying that they wanted Simmons to fit into the Pop system.

I have absolutely no idea why you choose to be the ONE guy saying that the Pels would never want Simmons for AD. Feel free to die on that absurd hill. I guess it ruins your dreams of a AD for Lonzo and Kuzma deal. But don't worry, the Sixers aren't trading Simmons so you only have to worry about the Celtics.

Well, the Celtics and about 15 other teams that might take a shot.

 

[flyerhawk]

Well, the Celtics and about 15 other teams that might take a shot.

True.

IF they open the market for AD, there will be a long line of GMs looking to make a deal.

I could see the Knicks, Nets, Sactown, Shytown, Wiz, Grizz, Heat, and Suns all make serious efforts to get him with likely better prospects.

OTOH, I actually think that trading Lonzo right now would be a bad idea. PGs take a few years to develop usually and trading him now would get you pennies on the dollar.

 

[trojanfan12]

OTOH, I actually think that trading Lonzo right now would be a bad idea. PGs take a few years to develop usually and trading him now would get you pennies on the dollar.

Yeah, unless it was in a trade where he was part of a package to land AD, I agree.

He shows enough skill that they could end up regretting moving him in any other kind of deal.