Big Ben says Dalton is ROY

[vancelot23]

Carolina has built their offense around makin Cam look good, at the expense of the team. Cincy isn't trying to make Dalton look good. He's doing that himself.

 

[Tubbs1518]

And that is Cam's fault. You don't fault the player for the team. It's not Cam's fault they are 3-8. It's his D. You give him Cincys D and they are 7-4 or better.

 

[vancelot23]

Cam is not a better player. He's more athletic and faster. He's not smarter or more accurate or a better QB. Stop making stuff up.

 

[kramer1]

Carolina can give us one of their RB's, please.

 

[vancelot23]

And that is Cam's fault. You don't fault the player for the team. It's not Cam's fault they are 3-8. It's his D. You give him Cincys D and they are 7-4 or better.

I wasn't aware of your ability to travel to alternate universes to gain info on what might have been. That's a ludicrous statement.

 

[Tubbs1518]

It's a ludicrous statment to say Cam isn't more accurate. His completion % is higher while throwing more deep passes and passes in general. I thought completions % measured accuracy? Or is that in my alternate universe as well? The numbers say Cam is. Running is part of football. His running TD's still count for 6.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Ok it's based on stats and the way they play Cam still wins. And as I already said Cam has only thrown it 30 more times than Dalton and that is with Dalton missing 1/2 a game. Get some facts straight before we spout off people. Newton is throwing an average of 3 more passes a game than Dalton.

Yes, but how many passes are called that Cam ends up running? I would say a fair amount considering the check and run method they use with him (and really, who wouldn't use that method with him).

Also, you don't know how Cam would play in the WC offense set up by Gruden. No one does.

So, the whole argument of ROY switching QB's is moot because you can't do it. You simply don't know.

Right now, considering all things...talent, stats, winning, and ability to lead their team...Dalton wins. It's not a slam on Cam. His talen level dwarfs Dalton's...but you don't need a super star at QB to win when you have a top 10 defense. Just a guy who knows what his role is. Just ask Trent Dilfer, or maybe Dan Marino. Hell, for as good as he was, Joe Montana was never "talented" by normal standards. He was just as smart as hell. Same with Brady, really. Dude has a great arm, but he's smart, too. Even if he loses some of his arm strength, you know he's going to make good, smart decisions.

I don't think anyone is trying to take away what Cam has done...almost all of us on here were wrong about him. I know I was...but talent alone doesn't mean that he should win ROY. Stats are great, but they need to help your team win. This is why most of the time you see MVP's on winning teams...not losing ones.

 

[Tubbs1518]

There is a difference in helping your team win and them actually winning. When your D gives up 45 you aren't gonna win. I'd vote for Cam 10/10.

 

[vancelot23]

I'd vote dalton 10/10 so there. I'd argue Carolina would be better with dalton. Fewer TOs, longer drives allowing the D to rest and they would use the two stud RBs more.

 

[Tubbs1518]

DALTON HAS 2 LESS INT'S. Jesus you'd think he had thrown 30 the way you talk.

 

[DanBengalfan]

yea, he brought his team from 2 to 3 wins.... big improvement.
way to carry his team.

I don't think it's a run away decision yet. although he's worth considering.

 

[whyoh]

Dalton > Newton


was in college....is now

 

[vancelot23]

It's still more and I don't know the fumble numbers

 

[vancelot23]

I bet caronina's d would prefer dalton if answering honestly

 

[Tubbs1518]

Newton has 1 more fumble. And I bet they wouldn't. Let's get out of yoru fantasy world. Dalton has been great, no doubt, but a lot of the big plays are because Green is insane. His D is great and keeps him in games and gives him a chance at these combacks. In Carolina he would never have that chance because they give up 40 a game.

 

[Cincyfan78]

NFL Hot Button Topic of the week - NFL - ESPN

Sportsnation poll:

Dalton 57%
newton 43%

 

[flamingrey]

Again, you can't swithc QB A with QB B because they are not running the same offense.

Cam's stats would NOT look like they would if he were in Cincy. Nor would Dalton's if he were in Carolina.

Also, besides talent, you still have to wonder if Cam can manage the game, the small ball game, with the same ability that Dalton has been able to do. I just don't know if he can. I'm not saying he can't...but the fact is, he hasn't been asked to do that.

This is a ridiculous argument.

Any QB that can play very well on his own with defenses zoned in on him can manage a game. Furthermore, I'd argue that a player of Cam's ability being able to make plays with his feet while still being able to make the passes would make a BETTER game manager than a normal player transitioning from chucker to game manager.

The only thing debateable is the flip side, whether a game manager can have the same success as a chucker. So if there is any question, it would be whether Dalton could play as well in Carolina as Cam has.

 

[Tubbs1518]

This is a ridiculous argument.

Any QB that can play very well on his own with defenses zoned in on him can manage a game. Furthermore, I'd argue that a player of Cam's ability being able to make plays with his feet while still being able to make the passes would make a BETTER game manager than a normal player transitioning from chucker to game manager.

The only thing debateable is the flip side, whether a game manager can have the same success as a chucker. So if there is any question, it would be whether Dalton could play as well in Carolina as Cam has.

Wow this is kind of scary how much I am agreeing with him.

 

[flamingrey]

NFL Hot Button Topic of the week - NFL - ESPN

Sportsnation poll:

Dalton 57%
newton 43%

This debate is who is better Cam or Dalton.

It isn't who is the ROY.

That poll provides nothing to this argument.

 

[flamingrey]

Way too many homers on this board.