Big Ben says Dalton is ROY

[Tubbs1518]

AJ has been great, but when you consider all that Dalton has done, and tasked to do on this offense...he's clearly the ROY.

Cam is putting up ridiculous stats, but they are meaningless because they can't win. Also, their OC is calling about 50 pass plays a game. If Gruden did that, Andy could probably have a few more 300 yard games, and maybe even a 400 yard game, but at what cost.

Also, earlier on, Cam was throwing killer INT's and Dalton was not. Now, I realize that in the first Pit and Balt games Dalton did have some killer INT's, but eventually you knew it was going to happen.

If you are taking the WHOLE picture into context and considering everything that Dalton done and asked to do on this offense, and winning....he's ROY and it's not even close, really.

The problem I see with that argument is if you switch them places how would each do? I think this team is better with Cam at the reigns as opposed to if you put Dalton on Carolina I'm not sure they have 2 wins right now. I love Dalton but lets not act like he is a better player than Cam because right now he isn't.

 

[vancelot23]

You're dead wrong on that. Dalton is playing so far above what a rookie should its not funny. Newton is putting up stats because of TE offense they run. I don't think the bengals would be better at all with newton. With dalton in Carolina, it's hard to say. They would run a different offense and actually use the 2 good RBs they have. No way does newton have the Bengals at 7-4

 

[Servo]

I hope next year we're having the same argument (which of our top two picks should be rookie of the year). This year my vote goes to Dalton just due to the fact that he's the unquestioned leader of that huddle and already an excellent field general. WR's are at a disadvantage to QB's for awards just based on their position but if a WR were to upseat a QB for ROY it'd be Green. He's just spectacular and thank God does not seem like a total friggin douche bag me first type guy. 2011 draft = A++

 

[whyoh]

I haven't seen an actual Steeler troll here so far.

 

[grayghost668]

I think the bengals got the best of this deal with Dalton,but only time will tell which will have the better career in the long run

 

[whyoh]

What the hell does Ben know?

 

[flamingrey]

I agree with Tubbs. We'd be 7-4 or better.

We're where we're at due to the defense. And Cam would actually improve our run game and we'd be better in the redzone. He'd also probably utilize Green better as he has a more accurate long ball.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Hmmm me and flaming agreeing....scary. Vance still hasn't let go of his pre-draft Newton hate. If Carolina had our D they would be battling NO and ATL for that division.

 

[Cincyfan78]

You can't compare because you don't know. They are not running the same offense that requires the QB to do what Dalton is doing.

Can Cam manage a game? We don't know. They are chucking it 40 and 50 times a game.

We've seen Dalton throw it 35 times (I think) at least once or twice. We know he can open it up. We also know that he can manage the small ball game. Accurate, smart throws on minimal attempts to drive the offense. Cam has not been asked to do that, so we don't know if he can. Dalton can do either.

 

[vancelot23]

If you think Marvin would use newton correctly you haven't been paying attention for the past 8 years. As a QB newton has been average. As a runner, spectacular. Dalton is a leader, making few mistakes, and led the team to a possible playoff spot. Speculating on what he would do on another team or what another QB would so here is stupid and unimportant.

 

[vancelot23]

Also if I had the option to I back and take Newton instead of Dalton, I wouldn't. Dalton is perfect for this team and 7-4 proves it.

 

[Servo]

I'm good with Dalton. Yeah, Newto is scary talented but I wonder if he'll be the next Vick (gawdy stats...overall about a .500 QB). Plus, if we're sticking to reality if we had Newton we woudlnt have Green (we'd of had to of traded that pick to move up or he would've fallen to #4). So if it's Dalton +Green or Cam Newton + say Torrey Smith (or whatever 2nd rd WR you like) I'll take the Dalton Green combo every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[Tubbs1518]

I'm good with Dalton. Yeah, Newto is scary talented but I wonder if he'll be the next Vick (gawdy stats...overall about a .500 QB). Plus, if we're sticking to reality if we had Newton we woudlnt have Green (we'd of had to of traded that pick to move up or he would've fallen to #4). So if it's Dalton +Green or Cam Newton + say Torrey Smith (or whatever 2nd rd WR you like) I'll take the Dalton Green combo every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

This isn't a want to change the past convo, its just a sheer switch of Dalton and Cam. If Cam was on this team we are a superior team. He is a superior player. it's that simple.

 

[Tubbs1518]

If you think Marvin would use newton correctly you haven't been paying attention for the past 8 years. As a QB newton has been average. As a runner, spectacular. Dalton is a leader, making few mistakes, and led the team to a possible playoff spot. Speculating on what he would do on another team or what another QB would so here is stupid and unimportant.

Newton has made precisely 2 more INT's this year and 2 less TD's throwing. However he has 9 more TD's that Dalton running and 5 more overall. He also completes a higher % of his passes while throwing more deep balls and more overall, and has almost the exact same QB rating. He also has a yard higher average and 500 more yards throwing.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Again, you can't swithc QB A with QB B because they are not running the same offense.

Cam's stats would NOT look like they would if he were in Cincy. Nor would Dalton's if he were in Carolina.

Also, besides talent, you still have to wonder if Cam can manage the game, the small ball game, with the same ability that Dalton has been able to do. I just don't know if he can. I'm not saying he can't...but the fact is, he hasn't been asked to do that.

 

[Tubbs1518]

He has thrown 30 more passes than Dalton. It's not like we don't throw here. And why would we play the small ball game? Green and Simpson are big play down the field guys. Same with Gresham. I see an offense similar to 2005 if Newton was here with his down the field accuracy.

 

[kramer1]

In a vacuum Cam is better. If you take where they were drafted into consideration than Dalton comes out ahead. Their teams records too, obviously.

 

[vancelot23]

Again, Marvin would not allow Cam to throw the ball 40-50 times a game. Never happen. You can't just assume what a player would do in another offense. That's nonsense. Can is more talented, but as of right now, not a better QB. They also don't base the ROY on what a player would have done if he was on a different team. That doesn't matter.

 

[Tubbs1518]

In a vacuum Cam is better. If you take where they were drafted into consideration than Dalton comes out ahead. Their teams records too, obviously.

I agree I wouldn't trade Dalton and Green for Cam and say Smith. But in en even exchange Cam is a better player than Dalton.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Again, Marvin would not allow Cam to throw the ball 40-50 times a game. Never happen. You can't just assume what a player would do in another offense. That's nonsense. Can is more talented, but as of right now, not a better QB. They also don't base the ROY on what a player would have done if he was on a different team. That doesn't matter.

Ok it's based on stats and the way they play Cam still wins. And as I already said Cam has only thrown it 30 more times than Dalton and that is with Dalton missing 1/2 a game. Get some facts straight before we spout off people. Newton is throwing an average of 3 more passes a game than Dalton.