Game Thread: Bengals Chargers - LOL

[MaximumSam]

Does Duke Tobin have a kid? The Bengals only hire their own employees' family, but I think any teenage girl would have had the sense to avoid John Ross.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I think Taylor has pretty good job security. It's clear that this team's roster was in terrible shape when Marvin left. At this point, I don't know why Duke Tobin doesn't get more criticism in the media. He clearly whiffed on Dennard, Price, Cedric O, Billy Price, and Jon Ross. His free agent signings (linebacker and tackle from Buffalo) have been nothing special and the roster went from one with great young talent in 2015 to one of the worst in the league when Marvin left.

I think they've made a few solid moves over the past two years and I expect that Taylor should have something to show for it by next year. I think this year will be a lot of ups and downs.... The team is much better than last year's version, but still too many holes to consistently compete

Agreed, he deserves a fair amount of blame, but so did Marvin and Co - they watched for several years while they still had Whitworth, and others, to know that Fisher and Ced were terrible - and yet, when the time came - they doubled down on those guys, despite watching them every day in practice. It makes me start to really question the end years and Marvin's ability to truly recognize talent. Then again, his hands, at times, are tied because Brown is not paying more than he feels like paying.

Any good staff would have cut ties with Ced, re-signed Whit for 2 years, and tried again. Instead, this organization doubled down on its failures and then acted shocked when they failed.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I don't think that would have been a offensive pass interference on Green if the Ref was not standing right there, and it wasn't for a game winning TD. It was too critical of a play. I do agree it was offensive pass interference, and I think overall, the game was really well called by the refs for not having any preseason either. They let the guys play. But they couldn't not call that play an offensive pass interference at that stage of the game in the end zone.

All I ask for is consistency from refs. If you are going to call the game 1 way, you call it like that all game long. As a coach I may not like it, but at least I can coach my guys up to adjust. If they start bouncing all over the place with calls, then that is where I end up having a problem. Williams used that same arm-bar several times through the game to get open. Fine. I didn't like it, but then I expect it to be called the same way on both sides, which it was not.

You can't just decide to call, or not call, something because of the situation of the game. Either it is a foul all the time, or it is not. I hate when people state that the refs need to "let them play" down the stretch and not call fouls. If it is a foul, then the player IS deciding the game - they decided to commit a foul. It is the refs JOB to call that foul. Not decide that because it is the 4th quarter, late game, etc..etc..etc...that suddenly this foul has to be call, or not called is actually doing the opposite - it is the ref NOT doing his job. It's one of the stupidest arguments I hear every year in sports.

Anyway - in the end, it was the right call - but I would argue that holding should have been called 1st on the CB - he was all over AJ well into the endzone, meaning that it was past the 5 yards allowed for contact. AJ wouldn't have pushed off if not for that.

 

[cincygrad]

Agreed, he deserves a fair amount of blame, but so did Marvin and Co - they watched for several years while they still had Whitworth, and others, to know that Fisher and Ced were terrible - and yet, when the time came - they doubled down on those guys, despite watching them every day in practice. It makes me start to really question the end years and Marvin's ability to truly recognize talent. Then again, his hands, at times, are tied because Brown is not paying more than he feels like paying.

Any good staff would have cut ties with Ced, re-signed Whit for 2 years, and tried again. Instead, this organization doubled down on its failures and then acted shocked when they failed.

Yeah, it's frustrating when trying to assign blame because there really isn't a good way to evaluate truth. I remember hearing multiple times that John Ross was not Marvin Lewis's choice for that pick and he wasn't happy about it. I've heard the same thing when it came to Whitworth - He was Marvin's captain and he wanted him retained. But there is no way to evaluate this sort of info.... Anyone that tells you they know what goes on down there at PBS is probably lying.

The erosion of coaching talent probably hurt the talent development. I think all Bengal fans will agree that Zimmer was a guy that got a lot out of players. And no matter how people view Jay Gruden and Hue Jackson, both were terrific positional coaches/coordinators with a track record of getting a lot out of their talent. Losing those guys over the years probably hurt a ton.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Yeah, it's frustrating when trying to assign blame because there really isn't a good way to evaluate truth. I remember hearing multiple times that John Ross was not Marvin Lewis's choice for that pick and he wasn't happy about it. I've heard the same thing when it came to Whitworth - He was Marvin's captain and he wanted him retained. But there is no way to evaluate this sort of info.... Anyone that tells you they know what goes on down there at PBS is probably lying.

The erosion of coaching talent probably hurt the talent development. I think all Bengal fans will agree that Zimmer was a guy that got a lot out of players. And no matter how people view Jay Gruden and Hue Jackson, both were terrific positional coaches/coordinators with a track record of getting a lot out of their talent. Losing those guys over the years probably hurt a ton.

Agreed. It wouldn't shock me one bit to learn that Lewis wanted those guys and didn't get them because Brown wasn't going to pay them. That is the sort of thing that has gone on with OL here for decades. But, it is what it is now.

Also agree with losing the coaching talent. To add, I think that they also failed to find guys to replace them, not just from a coaching talent standpoint, but a personnel fit as well. I feel like the defense Zimmer left behind was good, but new coaches didn't fit the mold of the players that were currently on that team. That makes for a bad mix, and eventually poor results. That coach is fired, and then the cycle starts anew. Much like we all talk about finding players that fit a scheme, coaches aren't exempt from this. When trying to figure out coaches that fit, unless you are looking at a total overhaul, you should find guys who exhibit traces of coaching that fit your current personnel, especially if those players have been successful.

 

[cincygrad]

Agreed. It wouldn't shock me one bit to learn that Lewis wanted those guys and didn't get them because Brown wasn't going to pay them. That is the sort of thing that has gone on with OL here for decades. But, it is what it is now.

Also agree with losing the coaching talent. To add, I think that they also failed to find guys to replace them, not just from a coaching talent standpoint, but a personnel fit as well. I feel like the defense Zimmer left behind was good, but new coaches didn't fit the mold of the players that were currently on that team. That makes for a bad mix, and eventually poor results. That coach is fired, and then the cycle starts anew. Much like we all talk about finding players that fit a scheme, coaches aren't exempt from this. When trying to figure out coaches that fit, unless you are looking at a total overhaul, you should find guys who exhibit traces of coaching that fit your current personnel, especially if those players have been successful.

Yeah.... Imagine being Ken Zampese. He grew up with a father that was credited with being one of the best offensive innovators of all time. He then cut his teeth as an assistant on the greatest show on turf teams with Mike Martz. As a QB coach he helped developed Palmer (no surprise given his talent) and then helped develop Dalton (rookie qb took team to playoffs). I think he also turned down multiple offers during this time due to his wife's battle with cancer. Then, when it's time to finally get your chance, you're tasked with running someone else's offense. I'm not sure the guy would have done well anyway.... But it was pretty clear when he was here that he was running an offense that was designed by the guys before him. And they certainly weren't going to evolve even though the league had figured them out.