Ben Simmons-Joel Embiid Duo

[flyerhawk]

No doubt about that, but for 85% of the teams out there, they have to at least start with the draft. You either need to have an attractive destination like Miami, New York, LA, or you need a strong foundation of talent if your team is going to attract quality free agents. For most, that starts in the draft.

Completely agree. You need a cornerstone player. Sometimes you strike gold and get him with the 7th pick in the draft like or Curry or, more frequently, you hit a stud at #1 like Lebron.

 

[flyerhawk]

Simmons passing last night was pretty damn impressive. Only watched the highlights so far but I recorded the game and I will watch it.

 

[shopson67]

Simmons passing last night was pretty damn impressive. Only watched the highlights so far but I recorded the game and I will watch it.

He also committed 7 turnovers and threw a lot of passes off of defenders' legs. He needs to get confidence in that jumpshot or he's going to get the Rondo treatment where the defenders back off by two steps, daring him to shoot. He'll get away with driving against that in summer league, but not so much when the real games start.

 

[flyerhawk]

He also committed 7 turnovers and threw a lot of passes off of defenders' legs. He needs to get confidence in that jumpshot or he's going to get the Rondo treatment where the defenders back off by two steps, daring him to shoot. He'll get away with driving against that in summer league, but not so much when the real games start.

Of course. He's hardly a finished product in his 3rd summer league game. If he doesn't develop a good mid-range jumper he will never be a dominant player.

But he has some impressive court vision.

Not sure that Rondo is a good comparison. Simmons needs to get some shooting confidence but if you give him a lane he is going to be tough to stop given his size.

 

[CodeBreaker]

LeBron also has no good mid-range jumper

 

[flyerhawk]

Joel Embiid on the court...

 

[knowyourenemy]

What good is a roster built solely of bigs? You have to build a balanced roster, and having 3 lottery centers is not doing that. If the Sixers can get a promising PG or shooter out of trading a big, they should do it. I think you're a little ahead of yourself worrying about falling short IN the playoffs, when the more pressing issue is falling short OF the playoffs, or even getting out of the bottom 5 in the league.

Actually, falling short of the playoffs or getting out of the bottom 5 in the league are not pressing issues for the 76ers. Nobody should want to be in the middle in the NBA. It's where the 76ers were during the Brand-Iguodala years and it got them nowhere. They got middle-of-the-road draft picks and couldn't lure any top free agents and didn't have much cap space to begin with.

I'd love to see the team make progress, but the process was always about putting the team in position to win a championship. If all the process does is turn the team into a 35-45 win team again, then it will have completely and utterly failed.

 

[knowyourenemy]

The problem is that the Sixers don't control the rights to the guys forever. Noel is going to be an RFA next year. And then a UFA the year after.

It would be great to be able to keep Noel, Embiid, Okafor, Simmons and Saric. The problem is they have absolutely zero backcourt. In a point guard driven league, the Sixers may have the worst group of PGs in basketball.

For the Sixers to have a chance at being legitimate they need to start getting good. Next year's FA class is going to be loaded but the Sixers need to show that they are serious team if they are going to have any chance of drawing any of those FAs.

That's not how free agency tends to work in the NBA. Noel will likely get an offer from another team next offseason and the 76ers will have the option to match that offer. The big problem isn't Noel leaving as a UFA. The big problem is whether the 76ers want to match whatever outrageous offer Noel ends up getting as a restricted free agent.

But even if they don't want Noel at whatever crazy deal he will be offered, the 76ers will always have the ability to trade him. It then becomes a question of what they can get for him in return . . . which may or may not be much of anything.

 

[knowyourenemy]

I honestly think that was a big reason why they got rid of Hinkie. they had to clear the air for FAs.

Rumor has it that agents hated Hinkie because he wasn't willing to pay several million dollars for the mediocre talent that they represented. Enter Bryan Colangelo and he's dishing out decent money to guys like Henderson, Bayless, Rodriguez, reportedly offered Jamal Crawford a max contract, offered Ginobili $20 million, etc.

 

[knowyourenemy]

First off they have to spend 40 million just to get to the salary floor. Secondly, they need to show a committment to winning. Barnes is a good player to have on the team. Get a legit shooting guard and point guard and you might have a legit chance to do something.

Keep hoping that you can draft a championship team and you can expect a lot of disappointment.

The only penalty, as far as I know, for not hitting the salary floor is that you're required to spend it anyway. So, I think that the team would simply have to give that money to players currently on the roster . . . and that's it.

If that's all accurate, there really isn't a huge incentive to spend to hit the salary floor, especially if it's going to hamstring your cap space in future years where you might need that money.

Edit: I see this has already been discussed. Disregard.

 

[flyerhawk]

That's not how free agency tends to work in the NBA. Noel will likely get an offer from another team next offseason and the 76ers will have the option to match that offer. The big problem isn't Noel leaving as a UFA. The big problem is whether the 76ers want to match whatever outrageous offer Noel ends up getting as a restricted free agent.

But even if they don't want Noel at whatever crazy deal he will be offered, the 76ers will always have the ability to trade him. It then becomes a question of what they can get for him in return . . . which may or may not be much of anything.

That doesn't really change my point. We are starting to get to the stage of the cycle with some players where they will be able to leave. Unless Noel has a huge season this year, he will be difficult to keep and difficult to get decent compensation for. And even if the Sixers do get good compensation for him, it is resetting the cycle as it would almost certainly be draft picks.

 

[knowyourenemy]

That doesn't really change my point. We are starting to get to the stage of the cycle with some players where they will be able to leave. Unless Noel has a huge season this year, he will be difficult to keep and difficult to get decent compensation for. And even if the Sixers do get good compensation for him, it is resetting the cycle as it would almost certainly be draft picks.

From the perspective of the 76ers, having Noel move on isn't the worst thing in the world. Yes, it would be great if he shows that he's an elite big man and then it's a no-brainer to match whatever offer he gets. But if he doesn't show that, or there isn't a clear spot where he fits in for the future of this team, they hopefully swap him for picks or players and, as you said, "reset the cycle."

Sure, they need to compete but I don't want them to ruin their cap flexibility for future years by signing average players to big deals. My eyes are on free agency in 2018 when there will be a ton of talent potentially available, specifically Paul George who will be 28 years old, has a player option that offseason, and will probably be tired of losing in Indiana. So, I'd be ok with swapping Noel and resetting the cycle, if that's how things play out.

 

[flyerhawk]

From the perspective of the 76ers, having Noel move on isn't the worst thing in the world. Yes, it would be great if he shows that he's an elite big man and then it's a no-brainer to match whatever offer he gets. But if he doesn't show that, or there isn't a clear spot where he fits in for the future of this team, they hopefully swap him for picks or players and, as you said, "reset the cycle."

Sure, they need to compete but I don't want them to ruin their cap flexibility for future years by signing average players to big deals. My eyes are on free agency in 2018 when there will be a ton of talent potentially available, specifically Paul George who will be 28 years old, has a player option that offseason, and will probably be tired of losing in Indiana. So, I'd be ok with swapping Noel and resetting the cycle, if that's how things play out.

I wasn't suggesting that the Sixers should blow up the cap with dumb contracts. Far from it. But the truth is that the Sixers will need to overspend to bring in some players, even if the team really turns it around this year.

If the Sixers wind up winning 20 games this year, why would any big time FA come here? Unless Simmons is absolutely dominant, which seemly unlikely, they aren't going to get any of the big name players.

 

[knowyourenemy]

I wasn't suggesting that the Sixers should blow up the cap with dumb contracts. Far from it. But the truth is that the Sixers will need to overspend to bring in some players, even if the team really turns it around this year.

If the Sixers wind up winning 20 games this year, why would any big time FA come here? Unless Simmons is absolutely dominant, which seemly unlikely, they aren't going to get any of the big name players.

True, but almost every team overspends to bring in players. I don't think the 76ers will have to drastically overspend to bring in free agents in 2017 and beyond.

As far as winning in the near future, they'll add Simmons, Embiid, and Saric from last year's roster. Sad but true, they've also improved their perimeter play by bringing in Henderson, Bayless, and Rodriguez. 20 wins should be the floor for this team.

Still, let's assume they go berserk and improve to 35 wins in 2016-2017 (ignore whether this is likely or not), I would say that they still face the same problem of an inability to attract talent. Big name players still aren't going to want to play for a 35 win team. It's why I say 2018 is really the free agency period that they should be focusing on. By then, the hope is that Simmons and Embiid have blossomed, the team has made the playoffs, maybe won a playoff series, and the team is looking to add one more piece to become serious contenders for 2018-2019 and beyond.

 

[flyerhawk]

True, but almost every team overspends to bring in players. I don't think the 76ers will have to drastically overspend to bring in free agents in 2017 and beyond.

As far as winning in the near future, they'll add Simmons, Embiid, and Saric from last year's roster. Sad but true, they've also improved their perimeter play by bringing in Henderson, Bayless, and Rodriguez. 20 wins should be the floor for this team.

Still, let's assume they go berserk and improve to 35 wins in 2016-2017 (ignore whether this is likely or not), I would say that they still face the same problem of an inability to attract talent. Big name players still aren't going to want to play for a 35 win team. It's why I say 2018 is really the free agency period that they should be focusing on. By then, the hope is that Simmons and Embiid have blossomed, the team has made the playoffs, maybe won a playoff series, and the team is looking to add one more piece to become serious contenders for 2018-2019 and beyond.

All fair points. I guess for me, I think overspending now for a player on a 3 year deal wouldn't really impact their cap situation when it matters. Then again a lot of people thought the Sixers overspent for Henderson.

 

[shopson67]

Actually, falling short of the playoffs or getting out of the bottom 5 in the league are not pressing issues for the 76ers. Nobody should want to be in the middle in the NBA. It's where the 76ers were during the Brand-Iguodala years and it got them nowhere. They got middle-of-the-road draft picks and couldn't lure any top free agents and didn't have much cap space to begin with.

I'd love to see the team make progress, but the process was always about putting the team in position to win a championship. If all the process does is turn the team into a 35-45 win team again, then it will have completely and utterly failed.

If the Sixers can't draft better, they aren't even moving out of the dust bin. They've drafted in the high lottery how many years in a row and essentially have 1 unproven but easy #1 in Simmons and a bunch of guys they still have no clue about? They seem to be finding middle of the road draft picks in the high lottery.

The more the Sixers flounder, the less likely it will be for them to draw any top free agents either.

 

[shopson67]

That's not how free agency tends to work in the NBA. Noel will likely get an offer from another team next offseason and the 76ers will have the option to match that offer. The big problem isn't Noel leaving as a UFA. The big problem is whether the 76ers want to match whatever outrageous offer Noel ends up getting as a restricted free agent.

But even if they don't want Noel at whatever crazy deal he will be offered, the 76ers will always have the ability to trade him. It then becomes a question of what they can get for him in return . . . which may or may not be much of anything.

You skipped over the other possibility. Noel could play for his tender and become an UFA the following year, especially if the offers aren't coming in his RFA year.

That opportunity to trade him will depend on who the offer sheet is with. If there is no trade agreement, the Sixers could be forced to pay him or let him go.

 

[knowyourenemy]

You skipped over the other possibility. Noel could play for his tender and become an UFA the following year, especially if the offers aren't coming in his RFA year.

That opportunity to trade him will depend on who the offer sheet is with. If there is no trade agreement, the Sixers could be forced to pay him or let him go.

I didn't skip over the possibility. It's unlikely though, which is why I talked about how free agency "tends to work" and how he will "likely" get an offer. Sure, the possibility you mention is there but it's very remote.

Or maybe it isn't as unlikely as I think. I'd be shocked if it played out that way.

 

[knowyourenemy]

If the Sixers can't draft better, they aren't even moving out of the dust bin. They've drafted in the high lottery how many years in a row and essentially have 1 unproven but easy #1 in Simmons and a bunch of guys they still have no clue about? They seem to be finding middle of the road draft picks in the high lottery.

The more the Sixers flounder, the less likely it will be for them to draw any top free agents either.

This year will be a good gauge for the team. Simmons, Embiid, Saric, Okafor, Noel. They'll actually have some (emphasis on some) NBA-quality talent around them in Henderson and Bayless.

If, by the end of the year, the team hasn't figured out what the best combinations are for the roster, what rotations work, which players are worth keeping, and which players are ok to move on from, then they'll be in trouble. But I think this year will give them an opportunity to see which of the big men fit best with Simmons and to shape the team based on that analysis.

 

[knowyourenemy]

All fair points. I guess for me, I think overspending now for a player on a 3 year deal wouldn't really impact their cap situation when it matters. Then again a lot of people thought the Sixers overspent for Henderson.

That's unfortunate. The Henderson contract is a great deal for the 76ers. I get that paying him $9 million per year sort of shocks the conscience because he's only Gerald Henderson . . . but it's nothing compared to what some other players received this offseason, both in length of contract and annual salary.