Beltran would consider coming back if the Giants improve the offense

[jingo]

Kepp is arbitration eligible, therefore under team control. Wouldn't be surprised to see him signed to a 2 year deal, but he wont be the starting SS. Not enough range or arm to play it. He might fill in there occasionally but not a starter.

You aren't alone on Ross. Most would only like to see him back if he took a significant paycut. And in your lineup why is LF vacant? Huff would be at 1B and Belt will be in LF.

Brown will NOT be ready to start going into next season. There's a reason he stayed in A Ball all year. He may be a September callup next year, but he's not ready for a fulltime role yet.

LF was vacant because I was thinking (and this is where my frustration with Huff surfaces):

1. Huff will not have a bounce back year
2. Belt and Pill in the same lineup everyday will not generate enough power while hitting for average (I am also concerned that Belt may be playing out of position in LF which could also impact his hitting - too much thinking, not relaxed, etc)
3. It is probably unrealistic to expect the Giants to get the premier power hitting free agents and/or Reyes

So if all of the above are probable (I do value others opinions on this), then maybe looking for a solid LF with power may be more realistic.

At the same time I also think Boras is using the possibility of Beltran re-signing with the Giants to up the price/years of the contract he will sign with another team. But until that happens, I would want him in RF for the Giants in 2012 (I can hope).

 

[tzill]

What Beltran is asking for is the ownership to commit to expand the budget past $130M.

Not...gonna...happen.

He gone.

 

[Heathbar012]

LF was vacant because I was thinking (and this is where my frustration with Huff surfaces):

1. Huff will not have a bounce back year
2. Belt and Pill in the same lineup everyday will not generate enough power while hitting for average (I am also concerned that Belt may be playing out of position in LF which could also impact his hitting - too much thinking, not relaxed, etc)
3. It is probably unrealistic to expect the Giants to get the premier power hitting free agents and/or Reyes

So if all of the above are probable (I do value others opinions on this), then maybe looking for a solid LF with power may be more realistic.

At the same time I also think Boras is using the possibility of Beltran re-signing with the Giants to up the price/years of the contract he will sign with another team. But until that happens, I would want him in RF for the Giants in 2012 (I can hope).

Good points. I think if you're against Belt playing in left field, which I'm not (I'll get to that later), then signing Beltran makes him your LF. Schierholtz can obviously handle right. I think it is a waste sticking his defensive talent in left field. Left would mask Beltran's slight defensive regression and utilize a + arm for that spot.

Obviously, a CF competition between Torres/(possibly discounted)Ross/Christian/Peguero? is not ideal, but signing Beltran makes it more difficult to sign an impact CF (debate still exists if there is one available). The alternative is looking for an available lead-off guy that can play SS, and that is even more unlikely (I think we can put to bed any ideas of getting Beltran and Reyes this off-season).

As far as Huff, I understand the frustration, but the bottom line is he is owed $11 million next year regardless, and although he isn't worth all of it, he is worth playing more than the occasional rest roll for Belt. If your fears about Belt not being comfortable are true, the last thing you would want to do is move him around a lot, which would inevitably end up happening if he doesn't take the everyday LF job.

If you're suggesting Huff get released, I have to disagree. I could understand trading him at the deadline if the Giants are close to out of it, but he definitely has more value than Rowand and Tejada did. That is why I would stick with Huff as the regular first baseman with Belt getting 4-5 games a week in LF (and spell Huff when Buster doesn't). He will get more used to left field, and I'm still waiting to see how effective that former pitcher's arm can be once he is more used to the different types of outfield throws.

I completely agree that Belt and Pill won't provide enough pop, but maybe gap to gap power will be enough for this line-up, ballpark and pitching staff? If Pill can impress, you'll get your hope of seeing Huff on the bench in a pinch hit role. Then again, we are talking about Bochy. Brett will probably get shipped due to a "logjam" at first base.

 

[SFGRTB]

From yahoo sports:

OAKLAND, Calif. (AP)—Agent Scott Boras expects slugger Carlos Beltran(notes) to seriously consider returning to the San Francisco Giants beyond this season.

Boras is scheduled to have lunch with his client on Tuesday in Los Angeles, where the Giants open a series against the Dodgers. He expects to know more about what Beltran wants after that, perhaps such specifics such as how many years he might seek in a new deal.

The 34-year-old Beltran, who joined the defending World Series champion Giants in a July 28 trade from the New York Mets, has said he will think about his next step once he is home for the offseason.


“Well, you have to remember when Carlos and I sat down to determine what teams he was going to go to, it was his choice,” Boras told The Associated Press on Monday night before attending the “Moneyball” premiere in downtown Oakland. “He came to the Giants for a reason. Obviously he has played very well here. He has gotten a chance to get to know the city and the organization.”

The switch-hitting Beltran told the San Jose Mercury News last week he would like to see San Francisco take steps to upgrade the offense—aside from just getting back a healthy catcher Buster Posey(notes) and second baseman Freddy Sanchez(notes), both out with season-ending injuries—and the parties would be in touch regarding the plan this winter. Addressing the leadoff spot is something else Beltran has noted.

Boras also doesn’t look at Beltran’s next contract as his last, meaning San Francisco could be in the mix even if it makes an offer to Beltran of two or three years. Boras, of course, also wants as many bidders as possible.

Beltran’s decision also could be affected by what happens with the two highest-profile sluggers in free agency: Albert Pujols(notes) and Prince Fielder(notes).

“He’s still only 34 so he has a chance to have one more big contract,” Boras said.

Under the Giants’ new leadership, the club hasn’t been handing out as many long-term deals of late. Management learned a lesson when it signed another Boras client, pitcher Barry Zito(notes), to a $126 million, seven-year contract before the 2007 season.

Last week, managing partner Bill Neukom announced he would step down at the end of the year, while president Larry Baer is being promoted to CEO. Baer will answer to the ownership group’s nine-member executive committee.

“I think a lot of it has to do with Carlos and where he wants to play,” Boras said. “That’s just something we’ll have to talk about. Of course you have to determine what teams have interest in him, too.”

Beltran is batting .333 for San Francisco with five home runs, 16 RBIs, four triples and eight doubles in 35 games. He has bounced back after a stint on the disabled list with a strained right hand and wrist.

Classic Boras just adding to the pot. This is a move he's always done, he's just trying to get AMMAPFTP (as much $ as possible for the player). Next he'll say the Dodgers are in on him.

One part of me says he's outta here, but my gut says he'll be back. But he's (Beltran) right, we NEED a leadoff hitter. NOW

 

[SFGRTB]

Repped. Very well said. I would simply add that if Beltran does sign with the Giants, Schierholtz should be given a shot in center (EDIT: I know this has been mentioned many times before, just not in regards to this line-up). He played too well before his injury this season to not even get a shot at an everyday position (and I doubt he would be more than a platoon player if CF is closed to him for some reason). A position I believe he would win over Torres/pay-cut Ross/Christian (if he gets invited to Spring Training). Belt-Schierholtz-Beltran would be a slightly above average defensive outfield (barring Nate forgetting how to play center since the Olympics).

I think it's safe to assume that if the Giants sign Beltran, they won't be pursuing Crisp, which leaves them without a lead-off hitter for yet another year. However, I agree that Crisp doesn't have everything the Giants are looking for in a CF-No. 1 (not the best arm/luckily makes up for bad reads w/ speed; not enough walks), but he will absolutely come at a better price money and years wise than Beltran. Belt-Crisp-Schierholtz is also a slightly above average defensive outfield, but heading more towards average with Crisp's arm.

The irony of the situation is the table-setter that Beltran wants would likely come at the expense of signing him. Who knows? Sabean and the FO could surprise me and go after both, but then we'd be questioning why they didn't upgrade the shortstop position. Should be an interesting off-season, but I'm glad they aren't mathematically eliminated just yet!

I'm sure Nate can play CF, but I'd at least like to see him there before I believe it. But shit, if Nate played CF on the olympic team with Dexter Fowler in the OF, must be pretty decent.

 

[SFGRTB]

LF was vacant because I was thinking (and this is where my frustration with Huff surfaces):

1. Huff will not have a bounce back year
2. Belt and Pill in the same lineup everyday will not generate enough power while hitting for average (I am also concerned that Belt may be playing out of position in LF which could also impact his hitting - too much thinking, not relaxed, etc)
3. It is probably unrealistic to expect the Giants to get the premier power hitting free agents and/or Reyes

So if all of the above are probable (I do value others opinions on this), then maybe looking for a solid LF with power may be more realistic.

At the same time I also think Boras is using the possibility of Beltran re-signing with the Giants to up the price/years of the contract he will sign with another team. But until that happens, I would want him in RF for the Giants in 2012 (I can hope).

As Heath said, Mr. Huff isn't going anywhere, at least this offseason. If he doesn't produce by say, August, they may cut ties. If the Giants miss out on Beltran and still feel the need to add a hitter (as they should), they'll probably look out for Willingham (who Sabean has always been linked to) or Kubel. Along those lines.

And the bold: classic Boras move.

 

[jingo]

I do not think that Huff will be released but I am not sure that he is capable of being a bench/role player on this team. I don't believe the new "ownership" will release any existing contracts no matter how bad they play. While a trade late in the season is always a possibility, since I believe the Giants will be a playoff contender in 2012 then any trade will be done because they are in it.

That being said, while I am thoroughly enjoying this season (we are still in it) what players make sense for the Giants to pursue during the off season and beyond? Based on rumors (I know) and previous discussions, we have a potential log jam at 1B (Huff/Belt - if LF doesn't work out/Pill/Posey - if the injury forces him to move from behind the plate/Sandoval - if his conditioning falters). If we wait until we see how everything works for Belt/Posey/Sandoval, will we have missed out on someone worth pursuing? Then again, in 2010, who'd have thunk????

 

[Heathbar012]

Classic Boras just adding to the pot. This is a move he's always done, he's just trying to get AMMAPFTP (as much $ as possible for the player). Next he'll say the Dodgers are in on him.

One part of me says he's outta here, but my gut says he'll be back. But he's (Beltran) right, we NEED a leadoff hitter. NOW

I think you might have just Nostradamused. How much of a discount do you think Beltran would he be willing to take to make sure the Giants get a lead-off hitter? My guess is little to none, so I think our guts are telling us different things. Great analysis of Boras and the team, though.

 

[Heathbar012]

As Heath said, Mr. Huff isn't going anywhere, at least this offseason. If he doesn't produce by say, August, they may cut ties. If the Giants miss out on Beltran and still feel the need to add a hitter (as they should), they'll probably look out for Willingham (who Sabean has always been linked to) or Kubel. Along those lines.

And the bold: classic Boras move.

I love how we just wanna poach the A's outfield! Hilarious. Willingham is also a very valid possibility, but will likely take a much bigger commitment of money and years than Crisp or DeJesus. I would assume he'll get more than Cuddyer, too. He would get close to what Beltran will if he was better in the field and struck out a little less.

 

[SFGRTB]

I love how we just wanna poach the A's outfield! Hilarious. Willingham is also a very valid possibility, but will likely take a much bigger commitment of money and years than Crisp or DeJesus. I would assume he'll get more than Cuddyer, too. He would get close to what Beltran will if he was better in the field and struck out a little less.

LOL you're right.

Willingham close to Beltran numbers? IDK about that, maybe more years I guess. Though Willingham is 32, IDK how much more he'll get than Cuddyer.

 

[SFGRTB]

I do not think that Huff will be released but I am not sure that he is capable of being a bench/role player on this team. I don't believe the new "ownership" will release any existing contracts no matter how bad they play. While a trade late in the season is always a possibility, since I believe the Giants will be a playoff contender in 2012 then any trade will be done because they are in it.

That being said, while I am thoroughly enjoying this season (we are still in it) what players make sense for the Giants to pursue during the off season and beyond? Based on rumors (I know) and previous discussions, we have a potential log jam at 1B (Huff/Belt - if LF doesn't work out/Pill/Posey - if the injury forces him to move from behind the plate/Sandoval - if his conditioning falters). If we wait until we see how everything works for Belt/Posey/Sandoval, will we have missed out on someone worth pursuing? Then again, in 2010, who'd have thunk????

RE: Willingham, Kubel, Crisp, DeJesus, Rollins, Cuddyer, Gomes, Pierre.

Through trade: Span, Cain, Aybar

 

[Heathbar012]

LOL you're right.

Willingham close to Beltran numbers? IDK about that, maybe more years I guess. Though Willingham is 32, IDK how much more he'll get than Cuddyer.

You're probably right given Willingham's .825 OPS to Cuddyer's .808 with better D and 50 less strike outs. I just think the league still sees more growth potential in Willingham despite him being a month older (EDIT: pure speculation, mind you). It was a bit of an overstatement on my part that he would be close to Beltran money with better D and less strikeouts, but if he made more contact and maintained a discerning eye, you can count on him getting closer to a .900 OPS (and that will get you paid!).

 

[tzill]

Good points. I think if you're against Belt playing in left field, which I'm not (I'll get to that later), then signing Beltran makes him your LF. Schierholtz can obviously handle right. I think it is a waste sticking his defensive talent in left field. Left would mask Beltran's slight defensive regression and utilize a + arm for that spot.

Obviously, a CF competition between Torres/(possibly discounted)Ross/Christian/Peguero? is not ideal, but signing Beltran makes it more difficult to sign an impact CF (debate still exists if there is one available). The alternative is looking for an available lead-off guy that can play SS, and that is even more unlikely (I think we can put to bed any ideas of getting Beltran and Reyes this off-season).

As far as Huff, I understand the frustration, but the bottom line is he is owed $11 million next year regardless, and although he isn't worth all of it, he is worth playing more than the occasional rest roll for Belt. If your fears about Belt not being comfortable are true, the last thing you would want to do is move him around a lot, which would inevitably end up happening if he doesn't take the everyday LF job.

If you're suggesting Huff get released, I have to disagree. I could understand trading him at the deadline if the Giants are close to out of it, but he definitely has more value than Rowand and Tejada did. That is why I would stick with Huff as the regular first baseman with Belt getting 4-5 games a week in LF (and spell Huff when Buster doesn't). He will get more used to left field, and I'm still waiting to see how effective that former pitcher's arm can be once he is more used to the different types of outfield throws.

I completely agree that Belt and Pill won't provide enough pop, but maybe gap to gap power will be enough for this line-up, ballpark and pitching staff? If Pill can impress, you'll get your hope of seeing Huff on the bench in a pinch hit role. Then again, we are talking about Bochy. Brett will probably get shipped due to a "logjam" at first base.

I don't think we can conclude that Huff won't be worth $11MM next year. He's essentially a replacement level player this year (0 WAR) and was an all-star caliber guy last year (6 WAR). I don't think it's a stretch to see him give us a 3 WAR year next year (think: 270/340/440; 20 HR, 75 RBI, average defense at 1b). If so, he'd be worth about $13-14MM.

 

[Heathbar012]

I don't think we can conclude that Huff won't be worth $11MM next year. He's essentially a replacement level player this year (0 WAR) and was an all-star caliber guy last year (6 WAR). I don't think it's a stretch to see him give us a 3 WAR year next year (think: 270/340/440; 20 HR, 75 RBI, average defense at 1b). If so, he'd be worth about $13-14MM.

I deduct the amount he didn't earn this year, so he has to be worth at least $16 mil next year for me to say he earned his contract. DeRosa has to go 25 for 30 over the next nine games with flawless defense and a game-winning homer in the playoff-clincher to earn half of his total contract (I'm not holding my breath). By my count, he has earned $2 million of his entire deal by being a good coach for two years and getting that game-winner last week.

EDIT: Have to factor in playing above his contract the year before, so yeah, let's say Aubrey plays to the caliber of a $12 mil player. Then the life of his time with the Giants, he earned his money. Hopefully, he has his normal contract year, but I think I'm with jingo on not expecting it.

 

[calsnowskier]

Tz, a 6 WAR guy is worth, what, about 20M?

If so, he has already earned his keep if you join his two contracts. Anything ove 1 WAR next year is gravy.

 

[Heathbar012]

Tz, a 6 WAR guy is worth, what, about 20M?

If so, he has already earned his keep if you join his two contracts. Anything ove 1 WAR next year is gravy.

Huff has been vindicated! Never mind. Enjoy your time, Aubrey.

 

[tzill]

Tz, a 6 WAR guy is worth, what, about 20M?

If so, he has already earned his keep if you join his two contracts. Anything ove 1 WAR next year is gravy.

As a FA on the open market? About $25MM

 

[msgkings322]

As a FA on the open market? About $25MM

Shenanigans!

That doesn't pass the smell test, are you saying if Huff had another year like 2010 this year, with 6 WAR, then if he was a FA he'd get $25M per? That's Pujols money, you get $25 per year if you have been a 6 WAR guy for years and years, not after Huff's 2010.

 

[calsnowskier]

Shenanigans!

That doesn't pass the smell test, are you saying if Huff had another year like 2010 this year, with 6 WAR, then if he was a FA he'd get $25M per? That's Pujols money, you get $25 per year if you have been a 6 WAR guy for years and years, not after Huff's 2010.

That assumes you pay a guy for what he DOES. In reality, you pay a guy for what he DID, and for what you THINK he may do in the future.

Poo Holes will get a shit-load of money (pun FULLY intended) because he HAS done it, realistically SHOULD do it (at least for a few more years) AND he puts donkeys in the seats.

Huff would get no more that 10M (on the WAY high side) because he has very little "fill seat appeal" and he has not shown any consistency in his production.

However, the 25M that tz uses is a tool to help decide a players WORTH in dollars. In judging a contract (in retrospect), it helps. It is not any kind of predictor.

Am I kinda close, tz?

 

[tzill]

Shenanigans!

That doesn't pass the smell test, are you saying if Huff had another year like 2010 this year, with 6 WAR, then if he was a FA he'd get $25M per? That's Pujols money, you get $25 per year if you have been a 6 WAR guy for years and years, not after Huff's 2010.

Not what I'm saying. I'm saying that's what his 2010 year was worth. He got MVP votes, for fucks sake. Of course nobody was going to give him that much money...the point is that the Giants made out like bandits on his $3MM deal.