Ball or Bernard, PPR better pick??

[wilwhite]

The Bengals will run the ball more this season with Hue Jackson instead of Jay Gruden.

I think this is a popular myth based on two years in Oakland out of Hue's long resume - he was OC before both in college and the NFL with very different results.

And even if you do want to forget the rest of his history and focus on his time in Oakland:

Rushing Attempts by Team
Oakland 2011 - 466
Cincinnati 2013 - 481

 

[kramer1]

I think this is a popular myth based on two years in Oakland out of Hue's long resume - he was OC before both in college and the NFL with very different results.

And even if you do want to forget the rest of his history and focus on his time in Oakland:

Rushing Attempts by Team
Oakland 2011 - 466
Cincinnati 2013 - 481

Are you comparing a crap offense to a playoff offense with a 4000+ yard passer?

 

[kramer1]

It is not that tough. I love Gio, but his role is still somewhat in doubt. Why would the Bengals spend a second round pick on an RB if they believed that Gio was a 3 down workhorse? They wouldn't.

Ball is the man here, hands down.

His role is not in doubt at all. He is the bell cow. Hill will not get 5 touches a game. BJGE will probably be the 2nd RB, actually.

 

[wilwhite]

Are you comparing a crap offense to a playoff offense with a 4000+ yard passer?

Well, you were.

 

[tlance]

His role is not in doubt at all. He is the bell cow. Hill will not get 5 touches a game. BJGE will probably be the 2nd RB, actually.

Not what I am hearing at all.

Like I said before, I still take Gio in the top 15, but not ahead of Ball in any format. Check the like below for the reasons why. Gio is riskier and he does not have as high of a ceiling as Ball.

Silva's Shy-Away Top-40 - Rotoworld.com

 

[tlance]

His role is not in doubt at all. He is the bell cow. Hill will not get 5 touches a game. BJGE will probably be the 2nd RB, actually.

I think Gio will get at least 15 touches a game, but that does not make him a bell cow. Hill will be in the picture, but not sure about BJGE.

 

[kramer1]

I think Gio will get at least 15 touches a game, but that does not make him a bell cow. Hill will be in the picture, but not sure about BJGE.

I'm sure. And I'm also sure I know better than you.

 

[kramer1]

I think Gio will get at least 15 touches a game, but that does not make him a bell cow. Hill will be in the picture, but not sure about BJGE.

Gio got 15 touches a game last season as a rookie. He'll get 20 this season.

 

[kramer1]

Well, you were.

The 2013 Bengals ran 110 more plays than the 2011 Raiders.

 

[wilwhite]

The 2013 Bengals ran 110 more plays than the 2011 Raiders.

I guess the question is, do you think Hue will pattern the offense in Cincy after what he did in Oakland? Is that why you said they will run more under Hue?

 

[kramer1]

I guess the question is, do you think Hue will pattern the offense in Cincy after what he did in Oakland? Is that why you said they will run more under Hue?

As has been written often here this offseason, it is the Cincinnati Bengals' new offensive coordinator's belief that in order for an NFL offense to be successful, it has to run the football. Physical, scrappy, powerful, pile-moving play are the basic tenants behind the coaching philosophy. A good running game can lead to an efficient passing game, Jackson believes.

cont....

Jackson's gospel worked fairly well on the West Coast. With even more playmaking talent and a better formula for success already in place in Cincinnati, the expectation is that it will work even better. As he helps ease Dalton into it, Campbell is a full believer in Jackson's offense.

-----

More plays equal more running plays too. Well, unless you believe those extra 110 plays will all be passes.

Gio will out perform Ball this season. There is no doubt.

 

[TREFF]

Kramer..I 100% agree that his role is not in doubt. I don't see BJGE even breaking camp with the team, unless Hill is knicked up more than it seems, and speaking of Hill, I agree that he won't be a huge factor, some touches yes, a lot, no.

However. .I think your Bengals fan club membership is seriously clouding your judgements judgment as to what to realistically expect. 1300 and 10 is the uppermost of any realistic expectations, personally I'm thinking around 1200 and 8. And Ball, in that offense, can easily do that, with more scores, as it always seems those WRs always get tackled inside the five. (Especially if they're on your team! ) '

So although I agree with your premise, I can't agree with your prediction.

 

[kramer1]

Kramer..I 100% agree that his role is not in doubt. I don't see BJGE even breaking camp with the team, unless Hill is knicked up more than it seems, and speaking of Hill, I agree that he won't be a huge factor, some touches yes, a lot, no.

However. .I think your Bengals fan club membership is seriously clouding your judgements judgment as to what to realistically expect. 1300 and 10 is the uppermost of any realistic expectations, personally I'm thinking around 1200 and 8. And Ball, in that offense, can easily do that, with more scores, as it always seems those WRs always get tackled inside the five. (Especially if they're on your team! ) '

So although I agree with your premise, I can't agree with your prediction.

Burkhead is injured and out. BJGE has already made the team, bro. They have nobody else.

Gio v Bernard will be an interesting watch this season.

 

[wilwhite]

Okay:

1) Sounds like some site is citing itself as references - and is that Jason Campbell? I like Jason Campbell, but...
2) "Physical, scrappy, powerful, pile-moving play" ... that actually doesn't sound too good for Gio.
3) And that kind of game eats clock like crazy, so those 110 plays won't be passes or rushes, they just won't be.

But... I think Campbell is just happy somebody wants to listen to him reminisce about when he was a starter, and this "run-oriented" stuff is bouncing around the media echo chamber.

Cutting down on the INTs will create more running opportunities. Just not that many.

If Gio does hit 1700 combined yds and 12 TDs (and he may), that will be the high-water mark for any RB under Hue as OC or HC.

And I love Gio. I had him ranked as the 10th-best back last year. He fell short of that, but I think he's about there this year.

 

[kramer1]

Okay:

1) Sounds like some site is citing itself as references - and is that Jason Campbell? I like Jason Campbell, but...
2) "Physical, scrappy, powerful, pile-moving play" ... that actually doesn't sound too good for Gio.
3) And that kind of game eats clock like crazy, so those 110 plays won't be passes or rushes, they just won't be.

But... I think Campbell is just happy somebody wants to listen to him reminisce about when he was a starter, and this "run-oriented" stuff is bouncing around the media echo chamber.

Cutting down on the INTs will create more running opportunities. Just not that many.

If Gio does hit 1700 combined yds and 12 TDs (and he may), that will be the high-water mark for any RB under Hue as OC or HC.

And I love Gio. I had him ranked as the 10th-best back last year. He fell short of that, but I think he's about there this year.

Gio put up better numbers than ball last season. He'll do it this season. He'll get more carries and the offense under Hue will be more balanced and sustaining.

Again, watch Gio's goal line score against the Jets last pseason game. Did they bring in Hill or Law Firm? No. Did Gio drive that pile? Yes.

These are all facts. You're citing opinions. I can't give you more facts than I already have. Well, I could dig up more articles and quotes from Hue, Marvin, and co. about the offense. I think I'm pretty well in tune with what's going on here in Cincy, though.

 

[wilwhite]

Gio v Bernard will be an interesting watch this season.

I'm taking Gio. But it's close.

 

[tlance]

Gio put up better numbers than ball last season. He'll do it this season. He'll get more carries and the offense under Hue will be more balanced and sustaining.

Again, watch Gio's goal line score against the Jets last pseason game. Did they bring in Hill or Law Firm? No. Did Gio drive that pile? Yes.

These are all facts. You're citing opinions. I can't give you more facts than I already have. Well, I could dig up more articles and quotes from Hue, Marvin, and co. about the offense. I think I'm pretty well in tune with what's going on here in Cincy, though.

Maybe so, but you are viewing your guy with rose colored glasses. Gio is very good, nobody is disputing that, but Hill is likely to wrest away some goal line looks. Just because Gio got a goalline TD in a preseason game does not mean he will be the man all season.

My bet is that Gio gets about 60% of the Bengals backfield touches this year. Ball will have a higher percentage in a much better offense and will be running against soft fronts all day long. While I would not pick him over the top 5, a healthy Ball has a better chance to finish number one than he does to finish outside the RB top 10. Gio could easily be outside the top 10 at season's end. Ball's is in the as good a situation as any back int he league.

 

[Barilko]

i not firing big stats at ya just

Ball was behind a sure fire redhot Rb named Moreno this year and now he is not

and I too love Gio as a matter a fact he has been my Keeper since he was available in FF

 

[kramer1]

Maybe so, but you are viewing your guy with rose colored glasses. Gio is very good, nobody is disputing that, but Hill is likely to wrest away some goal line looks. Just because Gio got a goalline TD in a preseason game where Hill didn't even play does not mean that he will be the guy all season.

My bet is that Gio gets about 60% of the Bengals backfield touches this year. Ball will have a higher percentage in a much better offense and will be running against soft fronts all day long. While I would not pick him over the top 5, a healthy Ball has a better chance to finish number one than he does to finish outside the RB top 10. Gio could easily be outside the top 10 at season's end. Ball's is in the as good a situation as any back int he league.

I disagree with you. I'm also far from a "rose colored glasses" fan. Go to the Bengals board and see for yourself.

Hill did play that game too. He had 3 rushes for 16 yards.

 

[wilwhite]

So you see 1700 total yards and 12 TDs as a reasonable upside for Gio. What do you see for Ball?