Babcock given permission to talk to NHL teams - Update - Leafs it is!

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I don't know that Snider would be a detriment to the Flyers in the Babcock hunt. His biggest flaw is his desire to win. It's a win at all costs mentality, but Hextall seems to have staid that desire at least temporarily.

But isn't that the thing that brings a risk of him forcing poor decisions upon his subordinates? And you could definitely be right re: Bryz, but the correlation between Snider's comments and the signing just make it seem as if he was the one pulling the strings on that one. And lets be honest - the guy had watched some pretty damn good teams in the late 90s/early 00's and late 00's capitulate because of the revolving goaltender door.

And for another example, Snider was a pretty visible and vocal figure during the Lindros fiasco and it was largely under his direction that the 70s teams went the "bigger and badder" way.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

100000000% Correct. Before them, it was Brodeur and Roy. Thats it. Spending valuable cap space on a goalie is not smart Cap management.

Well, CuJo's time with the Leafs deserves mention. Those teams go nowhere with that defence and Felix Potvin.

 

[awaz]

Great discussion guys. Honest.

Just wanted to clarify. My earlier "jab" was a reference to Snyder and not at all to Hextall. All last season I kept reading that "the Flyers were stuck in the 70's" and "Snyder is the problem because he keeps hiring the Old FlyerBoys". Clarke, Holmgren, Berube, et al. And this was from Flyers fans.

Me, I do recall meddling owners and lived through one of the best/worst in Harold Ballard. From 500 miles away, the picture I kept seeing of the Flyers and Snyder sounded an awful lot like Raiders/Davis or Cowboys/Jones or Leafs/Ballard/Stavros/OTPF/etc. Hence my comment.

I get that PhillyNation wants Babcock. Understandably so. Has the Philly management team created a different, positive atmosphere? But most importantly, will Snyder let Hextall and the rest of the leadership do their jobs? The history suggests doubt is reasonable, and I wonder if Babcock will have those doubts.

And heck, it doesnt matter, "everyone" knows he is going to EDM. LOL

Oh that's definitely a concern the fans share. But it does seem like Snider is letting Hextall do his thing. And Hextall definitely gets some benefit of the doubt for his time as assistant GM of the Kings. How big of a part he played in the construction of those teams, who knows, but we know it worked for them and he saw it work up close and personal. Hopefully he brings that mentality to the Flyers, and so far he seems to be doing that.

I still say Babcock stays in Detroit. I'm a little less sure of that than I was a few weeks ago, but I think he stays there.

 

[awaz]

But isn't that the thing that brings a risk of him forcing poor decisions upon his subordinates? And you could definitely be right re: Bryz, but the correlation between Snider's comments and the signing just make it seem as if he was the one pulling the strings on that one. And lets be honest - the guy had watched some pretty damn good teams in the late 90s/early 00's and late 00's capitulate because of the revolving goaltender door.

And for another example, Snider was a pretty visible and vocal figure during the Lindros fiasco and it was largely under his direction that the 70s teams went the "bigger and badder" way.

A lot of the Lindros stuff I'm too young to remember. My first real recollection of the Lindros days was being at the game when Kasparitas blew up his life in Pittsburgh. My mom was appalled at the fans' reaction to that and was concerned for me and my brother's safety (we had Flyers jerseys on). I think we were like 7 and 10 or something?

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Oh that's definitely a concern the fans share. But it does seem like Snider is letting Hextall do his thing. And Hextall definitely gets some benefit of the doubt for his time as assistant GM of the Kings. How big of a part he played in the construction of those teams, who knows, but we know it worked for them and he saw it work up close and personal. Hopefully he brings that mentality to the Flyers, and so far he seems to be doing that.

I still say Babcock stays in Detroit. I'm a little less sure of that than I was a few weeks ago, but I think he stays there.

In your opinion, if Berube wasn't the coach, if someone else who was held in higher regard ran the bench in Philly, do you think they would have been a playoff team this season?

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

A lot of the Lindros stuff I'm too young to remember. My first real recollection of the Lindros days was being at the game when Kasparitas blew up his life in Pittsburgh. My mom was appalled at the fans' reaction to that and was concerned for me and my brother's safety (we had Flyers jerseys on). I think we were like 7 and 10 or something?

Lol fucking Kasparitis. At least your mom took you to games, that's pretty cool. My mom couldn't be bothered to pay attention to any sport.

 

[awaz]

In your opinion, if Berube wasn't the coach, if someone else who was held in higher regard ran the bench in Philly, do you think they would have been a playoff team this season?

I think they could have made the playoffs with Berube as coach. I think he catches a little more flack than he deserves. The fact they were only 21st in GA/G is a testament to him (and to Mason) IMO. The Flyers were something ridiculous like 1-9-4 against non-playoff teams down the stretch. Against playoff teams I think they had a winning record in the last 2 months. So the ability for them to make the playoffs was there, they just shit the bed against bad teams. I don't know who you fault for that.

So with a better coach, ya, I think they make the playoffs. But I think whoever coaches the Flyers has a complicated task ahead of them. The defense is not good. If someone comes in and tries to open it up, Mason's numbers will probably plummet. Then again, they have to figure

The future is bright though. The Flyers probably have one of the better prospect pools on defense. If you can get by for a year or two, they could be in really good shape. Question is, will the coach last that long? If it's Babcock, he gets the benefit of the doubt I think, if it's someone else, I don't think they last.

 

[awaz]

Lol fucking Kasparitis. At least your mom took you to games, that's pretty cool. My mom couldn't be bothered to pay attention to any sport.

Haha ya, I think we normally went with our Dad, but for that game he was out of town I think? Mom's a Pens fan now though so that's not cool!

 

[BGDave]

I still say Babcock stays in Detroit. I'm a little less sure of that than I was a few weeks ago, but I think he stays there.

Well, Babcock might just be out kicking tires, seeing what stupid money might be offered.

I found his public comments about a short conversation with his wife very interesting. If you take what he said at face value, his wife did not want to discuss whatever angle he presented. I see that going one of 3 ways:

1. He said he wanted to explore other opportunities and she blew up at the thought of leaving DET.
2. He said he wanted to stay put in DET and she blew up at the thought of staying in DET
3. He had a very specific destination in mind, and she said "EDM, are you f***ing crazy?"

Which one was it?

[And before the EDM fans start ragging on me, it was a joke. Substitute TOR if you like. And probably closer to the truth]

 

[dash]

[And before the EDM fans start ragging on me, it was a joke. Substitute TOR if you like. And probably closer to the truth]

We used to have some Edmonton fans here (if you count DerringerEagle, I mean BlueandWhiteForever, scratch that HeavenCanWait), but they are all gone now. HarvardOiler was only at the swamp, but nobody could stand that obnoxious doosh.

/There was lcarnegie and styl_N_K as well, but neither of them have posted in years.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

DE was an Oilers fan?


No wonder he went off the deep end.

 

[dash]

DE was an Oilers fan?


No wonder he went off the deep end.

I think he was more a Leafs fan than an Oilers fan, to be honest.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

I think he was more a Leafs fan than an Oilers fan, to be honest.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Wasn't he also BlueWolf or something like that?

 

[dash]

Wasn't he also BlueWolf or something like that?

Yup, BlueWolfZero - Guy has more identities than Jason Bourne.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

I think he was more a Leafs fan than an Oilers fan, to be honest.

Wasn't he also BlueWolf or something like that?

Yup, BlueWolfZero - Guy has more identities than Jason Bourne.

It was a lot like this:

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I think he was more a Leafs fan than an Oilers fan, to be honest.

I thought his position that cheering for any team that wasn't Original Six should be punishable by death.

I can't even remember how many variations of "my team has won more Cups than your team has playoff appearances" or similar he spewed.

 

[forty_three]

As awaz points out, Hextall gets praise for what he isn't doing. Instead of trading picks and rushing kids, the Flyers are being patient as opposed to what was happening form 2008 to 2013. Thats why I took offense to the jab at Babcock not wanting to come to Philadelphia because of stability. It isn't 2011.

Until Hextall does something shortsighted and against what he claims to stand for, Flyers fans will praise him for sticking to the plan.

This is where Hexy has it right, and I hope he has the cred with Snyder to develop it without interference. Babcock has been successful because the development system in Detroit is second to none. When he gets a "rookie" they've been playing by his schedule and his system for two years plus.

Snyder's reputation, Hexy's newness and Babcock's insistence on structure throughout the organization doesn't seem to provie for a match made in heaven. A stud coach with impact only on the NHL level will not succeed. So the question is valid; will Snyder endure three years of trouble to build a system that will put the Flyers in the postseason for 24+ years? Will the fans allow it?

Oh that's definitely a concern the fans share. But it does seem like Snider is letting Hextall do his thing. And Hextall definitely gets some benefit of the doubt for his time as assistant GM of the Kings. How big of a part he played in the construction of those teams, who knows, but we know it worked for them and he saw it work up close and personal. Hopefully he brings that mentality to the Flyers, and so far he seems to be doing that.

I still say Babcock stays in Detroit. I'm a little less sure of that than I was a few weeks ago, but I think he stays there.

I do sincerely hope he gets his chance.

But as a Blue Jacket fan, I will miss Holmgren. Terribly.

 

[Cobiemonster]

This is where Hexy has it right, and I hope he has the cred with Snyder to develop it without interference. Babcock has been successful because the development system in Detroit is second to none. When he gets a "rookie" they've been playing by his schedule and his system for two years plus.

Snyder's reputation, Hexy's newness and Babcock's insistence on structure throughout the organization doesn't seem to provie for a match made in heaven. A stud coach with impact only on the NHL level will not succeed. So the question is valid; will Snyder endure three years of trouble to build a system that will put the Flyers in the postseason for 24+ years? Will the fans allow it?

I think if there's a direction that is valid and clear, the fans will understand it

But until Fast Eddie moves to the side and lets Hexy do what is necessary, they will be roadblocked from long term success

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I think if there's a direction that is valid and clear, the fans will understand it

But until Fast Eddie moves to the side and lets Hexy do what is necessary, they will be roadblocked from long term success

There's a lot to be said for this. When the Sabres started playing horribly, people were rightfully pissed when Regier said there would be some pain and people just had to be patient. Since it was him that got the team into that mess in the first place, it didn't sit well.

But when they cleaned house and brought in a new guy, he gets a ton of leeway to do what needs to be done.