Austin Jackson to the M's...Franklin to the Rays

[cezero]

Forget whether Price would have re-signed here after next season or not. It's not really relevant at this point. The bottom line is that the Mariners are ridiculously good when they score 4+ runs in a game this. When they don't, well... you've seen what happens. If you trade for Price and it's the only significant trade you make, you may have upgraded your pitching staff from a talent standpoint, but it's not going to help if the offense is still scoring less than 3 runs a game, as this offense has been doing for a while now. Jackson and Denorfia aren't Trout and Cabrera, over even close to that level as hitters, but compared to what we've been throwing out there at their respective positions on offense this year, they are upgrades (particularly against left-handed pitching). Jackson alone could be a huge upgrade in the leadoff spot.

So as great as it would have been to have Price, even if only for, realistically, about a year, getting him would not have solved the Mariners problems on offense. The Mariners have tried in the past to go all in where they were already strong while not doing enough to upgrade where they were weak. In doing so, they thought that if they built up the pitching staff enough, it'd compensate for a poor offense. Reinforcing the starting staff would have done nothing to improve the offense and improving the offense was and is the only way that the M's will be able to take the next step to the playoffs.

Yes.

Focus on the M's losses, and what has caused them. Any hope for improving the team record begins and ends by focusing on that. Any moves that don't address what causes the losses are idiotic and feckless.

They M's average just under 2.00 runs scored per game in their losses over this season so far, approximately 100 games. What would the M's team ERA have to be to give the M's a chance to win those games? This requires basic math, and basic reasoning skills. It's not rocket science.

They may not have done enough with these offensive upgrades to put them in contention for a playoff run this year, but the village idiot understands that it has a much greater chance of helping the team record than adding an ace starter would.

This is not subjective.

 

[octagondd]

Forget whether Price would have re-signed here after next season or not. It's not really relevant at this point. The bottom line is that the Mariners are ridiculously good when they score 4+ runs in a game this. When they don't, well... you've seen what happens. If you trade for Price and it's the only significant trade you make, you may have upgraded your pitching staff from a talent standpoint, but it's not going to help if the offense is still scoring less than 3 runs a game, as this offense has been doing for a while now. Jackson and Denorfia aren't Trout and Cabrera, over even close to that level as hitters, but compared to what we've been throwing out there at their respective positions on offense this year, they are upgrades (particularly against left-handed pitching). Jackson alone could be a huge upgrade in the leadoff spot.

So as great as it would have been to have Price, even if only for, realistically, about a year, getting him would not have solved the Mariners problems on offense. The Mariners have tried in the past to go all in where they were already strong while not doing enough to upgrade where they were weak. In doing so, they thought that if they built up the pitching staff enough, it'd compensate for a poor offense. Reinforcing the starting staff would have done nothing to improve the offense and improving the offense was and is the only way that the M's will be able to take the next step to the playoffs.

And maybe, just maybe, Paxton and/or Walker improve the rotation just a bit on their own. Now, we really need Kendrys, Austin and Chris to play like they have in the recent past. No guarantees, but that would be real nice.

 

[NWinAZ]

Forget whether Price would have re-signed here after next season or not. It's not really relevant at this point. The bottom line is that the Mariners are ridiculously good when they score 4+ runs in a game this. When they don't, well... you've seen what happens. If you trade for Price and it's the only significant trade you make, you may have upgraded your pitching staff from a talent standpoint, but it's not going to help if the offense is still scoring less than 3 runs a game, as this offense has been doing for a while now. Jackson and Denorfia aren't Trout and Cabrera, over even close to that level as hitters, but compared to what we've been throwing out there at their respective positions on offense this year, they are upgrades (particularly against left-handed pitching). Jackson alone could be a huge upgrade in the leadoff spot.

So as great as it would have been to have Price, even if only for, realistically, about a year, getting him would not have solved the Mariners problems on offense. The Mariners have tried in the past to go all in where they were already strong while not doing enough to upgrade where they were weak. In doing so, they thought that if they built up the pitching staff enough, it'd compensate for a poor offense. Reinforcing the starting staff would have done nothing to improve the offense and improving the offense was and is the only way that the M's will be able to take the next step to the playoffs.

Again, and I will try to type slow for even cezero can keep up, adding a stud hitter is better than adding a stud pitcher. Adding an average hitter is better than adding an average pitcher. But adding an average hitter is not as good as adding a stud pitcher. Jackson and SD boy are average hitters. Better than what we have since most of what we have are below average hitters, but that still does not equate to them being better additions than Price.

Same point as before applies; If average hitters are better for this team than a stud pitcher because we have Walker and Paxton available, then why not trade Felix for 3 average hitters? Other than Felix being under contract, no difference and freeing up Felix's money would allow us to add more bats next off season. Is that a stupid philosophy? Yes, just like adding 2 average bats is better than adding 1 stud pitcher. Talent wins no matter how you spin it.

And if Lester and a bench OF can get you Cespedes, what could Price get you in the off season?

 

[seahawksfan234]

Big picture. I doubt Rays were going to sign a new contract with Price, so the absolute longest they would have him would be another 162 games...July 31 of next year. If they actually waited that long, his trade value would be next to nothing, though. Every day they keep this guy they're not planning on signing beyond next year, his trade value decreases.

As much as we slam Franklin, he had a 95 OPS+ in his first 162 games, and has been given no chances since then, really. He would've been a no-brainer to bring up a lot this year if we didn't have Cano already. I'm betting he becomes an average or above average everyday 2B for the Rays within a year.

The Rays also got the guy the Tigers think is their #1 prospect (rated #3), and he's still only 18, and highly, highly, highly touted. Smyly is better than people give him credit for.

All under team control for a very long time.

I think it's a very good deal, but I can see the other side of the argument.

I didn't find Willy Adames in any of the Tigers prospect rankings I looked at:
2014 Prospect Watch | tigers.com: News
Detroit Tigers Top 20 Prospects for 2014 - Minor League Ball
2014 Detroit Tigers Top 10 Prospects - BaseballAmerica.com
2014 Top 10 Prospects: Detroit Tigers | FanGraphs Baseball

Plus, he's still only 18 and not exactly tearing up A ball.

I felt like the Rays could have got a package with a better prospect in it. They probably could have landed something like Walker, Elias and Franklin in exchange for Price. I wish Nick Franklin all the best, but the truth is that his value has decreased with every major league AB he has had. With the Mariners paying Robinson Cano $24 million a year for the next 10 years, Franklin didn't have a spot at 2B and he appeared to be the 3rd option behind Miller and Taylor at SS.

 

[SeattleCoug]

They may not have done enough with these offensive upgrades to put them in contention for a playoff run this year, but the village idiot understands that it has a much greater chance of helping the team record than adding an ace starter would.

This is not subjective.

Agree 100%. Games like tonight would just happen more frequently with Price given the offense. I personally like what they did. They improved without giving up much. With keeping their top prospects it sets them up to possibly make a trade for an impact bat in the off season. As much as we throw the name Stanton out their as a fantasy, he will be a free agent in two years after this year. They could start listening to offers this winter like the Rays were doing with Price.

 

[cezero]

I didn't find Willy Adames in any of the Tigers prospect rankings I looked at:

This is from a Detroit writer. The part about him being internally considered their #1 was something I saw from an M's writer on twitter, forgot which one, though.

A highly regarded 18-year-old shortstop, Adames -- who signed with the Tigers for a reported $420,000 in 2012 -- was listed as the Tigers' third-best prospect and was considered to have one the highest ceilings in Detroit's farm system.

He reportedly drew plenty of attention around this year's non-waiver trade deadline, but the Tigers balked at most inquiries. However, Dombrowski acknowledged that Rays general manager Andrew Friedman had his eyes set on Adames from the get-go. He was a key piece to completing the deal.

Detroit Tigers part ways with touted prospect Willy Adames in order to acquire Tampa Bay's David Price | MLive.com

 

[wazzu31]

Even if he was their "3rd" best prospect, that still seems like a really weak package to get him back. The A's gave up a kings ransom for 2 guys who aren't in Price's league IMO.

I have to give Jack credit because there were pundits saying Price would command Walker and Paxton when those two by themselves were a better package than they received.