Armchair GMs...check this out.

[lionstop1]

A.) Every team has some needs, nobody has surefire guys at every position. RT is a great example of this for us- we have three good prospects there, one of which has actually played very well but can't stay healthy, the other two have very limited experience. At least having young guys coming through the system ensure's it's not an outright hole, at least.

2.) How many DTs do you expect us to carry this year? We have three DTs on the roster at the moment, and Jason Jones is reportedly expected to see a good amount of time on inside again this year. Ngata is a guaranteed starter and Walker is a good bet to either start, or at least split significant reps with the 3rd DT. Add in Jones on passing downs, and Reid progressing along from last year, and we're by no means in bad shape at the position. If we have an opportunity to add a top-flight DT prospect in the draft I think we should because I think that would give us the opportunity to keep the interior of the D-line a major strength for us, but I think our overall need at the position is pretty limited right now.

Basically we need one DT- not sure where the idea that we still need two DTs is coming from? And I'm not singling you out on this one, I've seen that posted several times now by various posters.

See, thats what I dont understand. What is so different about us having needs compared to other teams?

 

[jdwills126]

Suh, Fairley, Mosley, Fluellin, Reid, 2014

Ngata, Walker, Reid, Jones? If he is starting DE which I believe he is can't count him as DT. It looks as if Lions need 2.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Suh, Fairley, Mosley, Fluellin, Reid, 2014

Ngata, Walker, Reid, Jones? If he is starting DE which I believe he is can't count him as DT. It looks as if Lions need 2.

We brought back Fluellen after Fairley went down. That's a pretty big stretch to say we had 5 DTs just because we carried Fairley on the active roster all year in hopes that he would return at some point. Also, I think it's pretty well accepted that most 4-3 teams carry 4 DTs, not sure why we'd be any different?

Sometimes, and I know I'm crazy here, but sometimes I get the impression that people are trying really hard to make things seem worse than they are with our team. Why, when discussing this stuff, is the worst-case scenario often the first conclusion posters jump to?

 

[RobBase]

Under Mayhew, the Lions have gone 40-56 and have only been over .500 twice, with 0 playoff wins and 0 division titles in his six years leading the franchise.

 

[RobBase]

You are very much in the minority on that. And it is a minority by a lot.

Oh no! Lol a bunch of fans and some sloppy beat writers don't agree with me? What am I going to do now?

 

[RobBase]

J.J. Watt/Ndamukong Suh side by side career totals (Watt on left, Suh on right):

Watt > Suh.

But don't discount the guy we still have and their ability to be a top 5 unit again next season.

Whether Suh is better than Watt is irrelevant. I told this board months ago how Suh would get paid more, and he did.

Andy Dalton is overpaid. Stafford is overpaid. Gerald McCoy is overpaid. 100% chance Suh becomes the highest paid DT ever, and quite possibly a higher contract than JJ Watt. That's how the NFL works. Like or hate it, the cap gets bigger each year and so do the player contracts.

Whatever he gets paid, some fans will say he was overpaid. But stop with the "as long as he isn't overpaid" nonsense. Dude is going to win the nfl lottery,

"Don't overpay Suh!" Do you watch football? | SportsHoopla.com Sports Forums

Here's another 100% guarantee, one day Watt will make more than Suh. Because his contract will come due first. That's how the NFL works.

Top 5 unit? I guess that's where the major difference in attitude comes from. I say no fucking way are the Lions a top 5 unit w/o Suh. More like 15-20 or worse.

Good news is we have 16 games to decide who was right and who was wrong. I was wrong last year. Really don't think I'm wrong this year.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Under Mayhew, the Lions have gone 40-56 and have only been over .500 twice, with 0 playoff wins and 0 division titles in his six years leading the franchise.

That pretty much says all that is needed. A better roster should be a basic expectation, not an accomplishment that he is good. He survived being fired when he should have and delivered a horrible draft, lead by Error Ewrong and then this offseason? Easily the leagues worst GM the last two years. A playoff appearance does nothing to change that.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Whether Suh is better than Watt is irrelevant. I told this board months ago how Suh would get paid more, and he did.



"Don't overpay Suh!" Do you watch football? | SportsHoopla.com Sports Forums

Here's another 100% guarantee, one day Watt will make more than Suh. Because his contract will come due first. That's how the NFL works.

Top 5 unit? I guess that's where the major difference in attitude comes from. I say no fucking way are the Lions a top 5 unit w/o Suh. More like 15-20 or worse.

Good news is we have 16 games to decide who was right and who was wrong. I was wrong last year. Really don't think I'm wrong this year.

Imo, that's crazy man. We were the 2nd ranked defense last year.

You're definitely entitled to your opinion, but I think you're drastically over-valuing Suh, and this is coming from a guy who has no doubt in my mind that Suh is the best and most dominant DT in the league. I just don't think there's any way a single player, even Watt, takes a middle of the pack or worse defense and turns them into an elite unit. It just doesn't happen in the NFL, no one single player is that good, or ever has been. Also, I think you're under-valuing Ngata in this scenario. He's not Suh, but there's also only a couple of DTs in the league better than Ngata. He doesn't have Suh's pass rush ability, but he's every bit as immovable and disruptive in the run game.

I love Suh- think he's a game-changing monster. I also think our defense is talented enough that they'll still be an elite unit next year. Maybe I'm wrong, but I certainly don't see them falling all the way to the 20th ranked defense, or worse. I guess, all-in-all, I just can't wrap my head around what makes someone think a single player is that good? To justify as big of a drop-off as you're suggesting Suh would have had to been averaging some absurd numbers like 2 or 3 sacks, 8 or more QB hurries, and 10+ tackles every game he played, otherwise there's just no way to say the loss in production without him will be that drastic.

Suh is great, but he's not that great... no player is, or ever has been, or very very likely ever will be. I really think you're crediting Suh with a level of greatness that simply doesn't exist. And I don't mean any disrespect by that, just an opinion based on those numbers above...

 

[RobBase]

Imo, that's crazy man. We were the 2nd ranked defense last year.

And this year Suh is gone. That's like predicting a jockey will do just as well without his 1 in a million stud. You're picking the jockey. I'm picking the horse.

 

[tpaulus_2]

That pretty much says all that is needed. A better roster should be a basic expectation, not an accomplishment that he is good. He survived being fired when he should have and delivered a horrible draft, lead by Error Ewrong and then this offseason? Easily the leagues worst GM the last two years. A playoff appearance does nothing to change that.

You guys crack me up. Mayhew signs "over-priced" free agents in the past, and you shit on him for not being more like the Patriots, Ravens, or Packers, who generally ignore free agency. This year Mayhew doesn't touch free agency- all but assuring us an extra 3rd rounder next year for Suh leaving, and he's an idiot for it. But he's also an idiot for trading away two super-ultra, franchise-saving 4th and 5th round picks for a 5 time All Pro to help replace Suh. So while those two picks are too valuable to give up for a player of Ngata's caliber, and Mayhew is an idiot for giving them up, you're also calling him an idiot for not signing players of lesser ability than Ngata in free agency, even though that would have meant giving up that 3rd round comp pick for Suh. You're basically talking out of both sides of you mouth on that one- valuing two mid-round picks more than a 5 time All-Pro, while simultaneously valuing lesser free agents as being more valuable than a 3rd round pick.

I'm starting to realize it's not Mayhew that you guys hate- it's the concept of a GM you can't handle. These guys have to make decisions, and when they don't make the exact decision you want every time on every player and every draft pick, you start to build up hatred for them, because you've got yourselves convinced you could do a better job. I really think if you guys were Seahawks fans you'd hate Schnieder, Super Bowl be dammed, or if you were a Packers fan (god forbid) you'd hate Thompson, etc. It doesn't seem to matter how successful a team is, I see these GM-attacking posts on every team board. It's a pretty crazy phenomenon, imo, but it's gotta be something in the human condition since it also seems so universal across every team.

And I'd like to add that I think Mayhew has been a mediocre GM so far. I think I've developed a reputation as a Mayhew-lover because I defend him against baseless trash-talk, but at the same time I've never said I think he's a top-ten talent in the small world of NFL GMs. But mediocre is a lot better than bottom-of-the-barrel, which he is not.

 

[jdwills126]

I thought Fluellin was brought in before Fairley got hurt. He has been on the roster so many times it's hard to tell anymore.....

But does not change the fact if Jones is starting at DE the Lions have Ngata, Walker, and Reid. Walker and Reid. With Reid being a longshot to start and Walker really a hopeful starter at best. They still would need two for rotation and depth.

As for team needs, yes every team has needs but the Lions were a playoff team and I can't see many returning playoff teams that have as many needs as Detroit.

Detroit Lions' lack of free agency moves puzzling

The Title of the Articleions lack of Free Agent Moves Puzzling

 

[tpaulus_2]

Imo, that's crazy man. We were the 2nd ranked defense last year.

And this year Suh is gone. That's like predicting a jockey will do just as well without his 1 in a million stud. You're picking the jockey. I'm picking the horse.

There's other good horses out there, and luckily we got one. We may not win the race now, but we're still in the running for a podium spot with our replacement thoroughbred.

Had we not been able to land Ngata I'd be far more concerned about our drop-off, because then we'd have a huge hole in the middle of our defense. We basically went from one stud DT, to another stud DT, just slightly less studly. We lost the best DT in the league, but gained a top-5 DT to replace him, and for less than half the cost. Could be a lot worse.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I thought Fluellin was brought in before Fairley got hurt. He has been on the roster so many times it's hard to tell anymore.....

But does not change the fact if Jones is starting at DE the Lions have Ngata, Walker, and Reid. Walker and Reid. With Reid being a longshot to start and Walker really a hopeful starter at best. They still would need two for rotation and depth.

As for team needs, yes every team has needs but the Lions were a playoff team and I can't see many returning playoff teams that have as many needs as Detroit.

Detroit Lions' lack of free agency moves puzzling

The Title of the Articleions lack of Free Agent Moves Puzzling

Again- why do we need 5 DTs, especially when we have a DE who kicks inside on passing downs? What would this 5th DT do, other than being inactive 16 times next year on game day? We have 3 DTs, and a DE that rotates inside. We need one more DT, and I think that's pretty obvious.

And what does "Walker and Reid." mean? Is it a bad thing that we signed an up-and-comming DT and still have last year's 4th round pick on the roster? I think Walker will surprise you this year. On a per-snap basis he really got it done last year. I think it's a smart move to sign a guy like that and get him more snaps. His versatility along the D-line is a huge plus, as well.

 

[jdwills126]

You guys crack me up. Mayhew signs "over-priced" free agents in the past, and you shit on him for not being more like the Patriots, Ravens, or Packers, who generally ignore free agency. This year Mayhew doesn't touch free agency- all but assuring us an extra 3rd rounder next year for Suh leaving

I like the post but don't agree with a lot of it. I can't remember many advocating signing high priced FA. I do remember guys thinking players would be signed for less than what they have been.

Some solid FA like Paea were affordable....not a bargain but affordable with a well worked contract. Guys like Raji that could be rehab projects would be ideas as well. The problem for me is the lack of any coherent moves to address the slot CB or Guard. The guys Mayhew brought in seemed as if they were brought in specifically to keep the Lions from losing any gained comp picks next year.

Unless the Lions an parley a few trade downs to get picks realistically they will be signing guys cut during camp to fill holes.

 

[jdwills126]

Again- why do we need 5 DTs, especially when we have a DE who kicks inside on passing downs? What would this 5th DT do, other than being inactive 16 times next year on game day? We have 3 DTs, and a DE that rotates inside. We need one more DT, and I think that's pretty obvious.

You keep saying Jones will slide down during passing downs but thats an assumption. Since his injury I can't see him playing that many downs. The Lions usually have a good sized rotation at DT.

The point is with Reid and/or Walker you ready to put them in as starters? I think even as up and comers that is reaching before camp. Lets not put them in the all star game before they have a depth chart out. Walker is the same guys the Saints didn't even tender.

 

[tpaulus_2]

You guys crack me up. Mayhew signs "over-priced" free agents in the past, and you shit on him for not being more like the Patriots, Ravens, or Packers, who generally ignore free agency. This year Mayhew doesn't touch free agency- all but assuring us an extra 3rd rounder next year for Suh leaving

I like the post but don't agree with a lot of it. I can't remember many advocating signing high priced FA. I do remember guys thinking players would be signed for less than what they have been.

Some solid FA like Paea were affordable....not a bargain but affordable with a well worked contract. Guys like Raji that could be rehab projects would be ideas as well. The problem for me is the lack of any coherent moves to address the slot CB or Guard. The guys Mayhew brought in seemed as if they were brought in specifically to keep the Lions from losing any gained comp picks next year.

Unless the Lions an parley a few trade downs to get picks realistically they will be signing guys cut during camp to fill holes.

Are guys like Paea, Raji, or Blaylock worth a 3rd rounder, though? That's the way you have to look at free gancy this year. We lost starters, and didn't sign anyone- that nets us comp picks next year. Suh will land us the top comp pick, because we didn't sign anyone. As soon as we start signing players we lose and.or lower our comp picks.

These guys ragging on Mayhew can't have it both ways- they can't value mid-round picks more than all Pro players, and then turn around and value any free agent more than a 3rd round pick.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

sometimes I get the impression that people are trying really hard to make things seem worse than they are with our team.

 

[gandydancer]

TP not sure just because we sign a guy we lose the comp pick. Amount of money difference will still warrant the pick. As money of the two contracts seems to be biggest factor in the equation.

As you look back at prior years and the comp picks, you do see teams lose four and sign four, yet they still get high comp picks.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Again- why do we need 5 DTs, especially when we have a DE who kicks inside on passing downs? What would this 5th DT do, other than being inactive 16 times next year on game day? We have 3 DTs, and a DE that rotates inside. We need one more DT, and I think that's pretty obvious.

You keep saying Jones will slide down during passing downs but thats an assumption. Since his injury I can't see him playing that many downs. The Lions usually have a good sized rotation at DT.

The point is with Reid and/or Walker you ready to put them in as starters? I think even as up and comers that is reaching before camp. Lets not put them in the all star game before they have a depth chart out. Walker is the same guys the Saints didn't even tender.

No an assumption, one of the beatwriters quoted one of the coaches on that before free agency started. He played a lot of snaps inside last year on passing downs, and the article talked about that being by design, and that they planned on using him there again this season on passing downs. He's a good interior pass rusher.

And I don't follow on the injury thing? That was two seasons ago, and he played a lot of snaps last year, so I'm not sure why he'd suddenly go the other direction on that?

I agree that we usually have a large rotation at DT- but 4 DTs and Jones is a large rotation. Going even a little farther, Ansah and Devin Taylor have both taken snaps at DT in certain pass-rushing packages, so we've got a lot of bodies on that D-line that can line-up inside.

I'll maintain that I feel like you're still too low on Walker- I think you're going to be disappointed this summer if that's the case, because it sounds he's penciled in as the starter opposite Ngata right now. I'd love to see us land a guy early in the draft that would maybe split time with him (or even be good enough to win the job outright) but I'm comfortable with Walker in the starting spot. If nobody signs Mosely prior to the draft I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was brought back to fill the same role he held last year. Wouldn't hurt the comp pick situation, either, because he's our own free agent...

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Maybe this article will help somewhat to clear up this so-called issue of signing FA's this year. It seems to me that Mayhew actually some quality perspective on 2016 comp picks that we'd likely receive in relation to signing other teams FA's.

Detroit Lions could load up on comp NFL draft picks next year

The Lions are in line to get multiple compensatory picks in the 2016 draft, after losing Ndamukong Suh and Nick Fairley in free agency and finding their replacements through alternative means.

They traded fourth- and fifth-round picks this year for Haloti Ngata and signed non-tendered restricted free agent Tyrunn Walker, and neither move factors into the formula the league uses to dole out extra draft picks.

The Lions waded into free agency this year with comp picks clearly in mind.

Before signing Walker, they were close to a deal with defensive tackle Kendall Langford, who was cut by the St. Louis Rams last month. Among the free agent offensive linemen they've pursued is guard Justin Blalock, who was released by the Atlanta Falcons.

Because they were cut, neither player would impact the Lions' ability to add comp picks.

Certainly, you think about those things," Lions general manager Martin Mayhew said.