Armchair GMs...check this out.

[LPinSLC]

Like I said in my original post. Middle of the pack will keep you in the middle of the pack. Mayhew needs to do better.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Rod Marinelli got a HC job without ever being a DC, Micro. Must a been a dumb ass assistant GM on that team giving advice, eh?

Just thought I would point out that Rod Marinelli was the assistant head coach for 4 or 5 years in TB before being hired by the Lions. So while he wasn't a DC -- he held not only Asst. head coach, but coached the DL for like 10 years in TB.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I think some overvalue the rest of this team, and undervalue Suh. It's my belief that he carried this team the entire time he was here, and without them, they lose a lot of games they have won in the with him.

We'll see.

I agree on quite a few guys overvaluing members of the Lions. And I don't think anyone is undervaluing Suh -- Everyone knows he is an elite talent and one of the best DT's in football. What he absolutely isn't deserving of -- being the highest paid defensive player.

IMO -- even the Lions offer was absurd to give a DT. As good as Suh has been for Detroit -- he doesn't play a premium position on the defense. If Suh was one of the best MLB's, or one of the best DE's, or one of the best CB's -- I don't think there is a chance the Lions let him walk. DT's are in their to clog the running lanes, collapse the pocket and take on double teams. While Ngata won't get a lot of sacks -- he will do everything else Suh did for the Lions and he is 10 million dollars cheaper.

I hated to see Suh go, but 19 million is hilarious to me to pay a DT.

 

[Thruthefog]

I'll armchair GM for awhile, and then you can all take your shots.

On the defensive side of the ball, Mayhew is pretty good at assembling talent. The Lions have a good safety tandem, two pretty decent corners, linebacking corp steadily improving, and at one time built a fairly impressive DL. There is no reason to think the wheels are going to come off the defense. Austin got more out of this defense than Schwartz ever did. But even those labeled as homers have admitted they expect the defense to be less dominant. But it can't afford to be because:

On the offensive side of the ball, Mayhew is a fucking moron. The first thing Mayhew did was draft Stafford. Little did we as Lions fans know at the time, that it would be the last sane move Mayhew would make to improve the offense. Stafford + Calvin was much better than Marginal NFL QB + Calvin. After many failed attemts, he did manage to finally secure a #2 wideout.

But let's shift our focus. With the possible exception of Yao (and what do 7 footers know? there isn't enough oxygen up there for their brains to function properly), I think most would agree that after QB, OT is the most important position on an offense. Now most of you would say LT, which is total horseshit because from what I can tell, Watt can line up wherever the fuck he wants. And I don't give a fuck if the QB can see it coming or not, if your RT is a slug, the result is the same. And. that's. all. I. have. to. say. about. that. But anyway, since Rusty has been here he has largely ignored the offensive line. He took Reiff with the #23 pick in the draft only after Backus sustained an injury and he realized Backus wasn't going to be able to play into his 50s. Hell, look at how long he went with Domino fucking Ravioli. In that same time, he has spent a #10 and #20 on the TE position. TE!!! That's it!! (Cliff!! You slept with Cliff!?!? That's it!! The wedding's off!!)

And this off-season our offensive line doesn't inspire confidence. Oh sure. This year Mayhew might spend another #23 pick on an OT. Doesn't mean he isn't an offensive idjit.

 

[RobBase]

I agree on quite a few guys overvaluing members of the Lions. And I don't think anyone is undervaluing Suh -- Everyone knows he is an elite talent and one of the best DT's in football. What he absolutely isn't deserving of -- being the highest paid defensive player.

IMO -- even the Lions offer was absurd to give a DT. As good as Suh has been for Detroit -- he doesn't play a premium position on the defense. If Suh was one of the best MLB's, or one of the best DE's, or one of the best CB's -- I don't think there is a chance the Lions let him walk. DT's are in their to clog the running lanes, collapse the pocket and take on double teams. While Ngata won't get a lot of sacks -- he will do everything else Suh did for the Lions and he is 10 million dollars cheaper.

I hated to see Suh go, but 19 million is hilarious to me to pay a DT.

"a DT" see I don't see Suh just as. "a DT ". I see him as Suh. Leader of all interior Dlineman in sacks, tackles, hurries and knockdowns since 2010. Yes, ever more than ball-swatting, TD catching side show JJ Watt.

19 million for a future Hall of Fame defensive player is money well spent.

 

[RobBase]

Just thought I would point out that Rod Marinelli was the assistant head coach for 4 or 5 years in TB before being hired by the Lions. So while he wasn't a DC -- he held not only Asst. head coach, but coached the DL for like 10 years in TB.

 

[Old Lion]

"a DT" see I don't see Suh just as. "a DT ". I see him as Suh. Leader of all interior Dlineman in sacks, tackles, hurries and knockdowns since 2010. Yes, ever more than ball-swatting, TD catching side show JJ Watt.

19 million for a future Hall of Fame defensive player is money well spent.

You are very much in the minority on that. And it is a minority by a lot.

 

[Rollingthndr]

Just thought I would point out that Rod Marinelli was the assistant head coach for 4 or 5 years in TB before being hired by the Lions. So while he wasn't a DC -- he held not only Asst. head coach, but coached the DL for like 10 years in TB.

Wasn't under Dungy was it? Dude didn't learn shit on how to coach then.

 

[Microwahevo]

I won't go through this entire thread to read everyone comments but I bet a few of you had head explosions with the idea that he is mediocre.

I didn't see anyone mention him as "mediocre". Maybe I missed it?

 

[jdwills126]

For me the misses in the draft, the dead money holding them back from being FA players, and not having a better plan on dealing with Suh tells me Mayhew has and is over his head in dealing with other GMs and agents.

Right here right now I am still not sure what the Lions plans were regarding Suh. Sign him until a certain salary demand could not be met. Wait to try to match another offer and hope he stays in Detroit. Just decide to move on and tell fans they tried when they didn't?

If Mayhew can pull a rabbit out of his ass and fill the holes to make this team competitive I will be impressed but considering they need 2 more DTs, a nickel back, a guard, RB, and a tackle I don't see that happening.

 

[lionstop1]

Whew, the shit us fans spew out of our mouths!

There is some reason to have and voice a opinion on Mayhew but most of everything being said seems way off when you do a little research and compare him to GMs. A "middle of the pack GM" can rise from that spot in a matter of a few years. All the good GMs weren't automatically at the top after a few years. Mayhew is decent.

The over-valuing Suh like he is some type of god is halarious also. I just cant believe those discussions but it has offered some humor to the boards. Lol

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

"a DT" see I don't see Suh just as. "a DT ". I see him as Suh. Leader of all interior Dlineman in sacks, tackles, hurries and knockdowns since 2010. Yes, ever more than ball-swatting, TD catching side show JJ Watt.

Rob -- here is your biggest issue. You think Suh is better than he actually is. Would you like me to post the stats for Suh and Watt?

Watt puts Suh's numbers to shame in EVERY category and has only played 4 years, while Suh has played 5. I'm not going to put up the list again, but I will just tell you -- Watt has 60 more tackles, 20 more sacks, 10 more forced fumbles, 10 more fumble recoveries, 26 more stuffs, 47 more passes defensed and has over double the amount of QB pressures and QB hits. Watt has done all this with one season less than Suh.

Why do you think I said the ceiling for a Suh contract should start and stop at what Watt is being paid? The fact Suh got more guaranteed and over 2 million more per season is a joke. There is a reason why Watt has been the Defensive Player of the year 2 of the last 3 years and Suh has never even been in the conversation.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I will say this -- if Suh was putting up JJ Watt stats and we let him walk in FA, I would have personally drove over to Lions headquarters in Allen Park and smacked Mayhew upside the head.

 

[TBBishop]

I didn't see anyone mention him as "mediocre". Maybe I missed it?

The list had him 18th. 18th is mediocre in my book.

 

[Rollingthndr]

Rob -- here is your biggest issue. You think Suh is better than he actually is. Would you like me to post the stats for Suh and Watt?

Watt puts Suh's numbers to shame in EVERY category and has only played 4 years, while Suh has played 5. I'm not going to put up the list again, but I will just tell you -- Watt has 60 more tackles, 20 more sacks, 10 more forced fumbles, 10 more fumble recoveries, 26 more stuffs, 47 more passes defensed and has over double the amount of QB pressures and QB hits. Watt has done all this with one season less than Suh.

Why do you think I said the ceiling for a Suh contract should start and stop at what Watt is being paid? The fact Suh got more guaranteed and over 2 million more per season is a joke. There is a reason why Watt has been the Defensive Player of the year 2 of the last 3 years and Suh has never even been in the conversation.

There will always be a difference between great players and the all-time greats. Watt may be the best defensive player I have ever seen in the NFL. He revolutionized the "batted passes". If he keeps up this torrid pace, it's hard to put any defensive player of any generation in front of him.

 

[tpaulus_2]

"a DT" see I don't see Suh just as. "a DT ". I see him as Suh. Leader of all interior Dlineman in sacks, tackles, hurries and knockdowns since 2010. Yes, ever more than ball-swatting, TD catching side show JJ Watt.

19 million for a future Hall of Fame defensive player is money well spent.

J.J. Watt/Ndamukong Suh side by side career totals (Watt on left, Suh on right):

Total Tackles: 295/239 (yearly average: 73.75/47.8)
Solo Tackles: 241/180 (yearly average: 60.25/36)
Sacks: 57/36 (yearly average 14.25/7.2)
Safeties: 1/1
Passes Deflected: 37/15 (yearly average 9.25/3)
INTs: 1/1
Forced Fumbles: 12/2 (yearly average 3/ 0.4)

Suh has played 5 years, Watt only 4.

I think Suh is the best defensive tackle in the NFL. J.J. Watt is the best defensive player in the NFL, he may also be the single best player in the NFL right now. 32 out of 32 general managers are going to take Watt over Suh if they have their choice of any defensive player in the league, no question about it. Watt is younger, far more athletic (at damn near the same size as Suh), and DRASTICALLY more productive than Suh (Suh defintiely seems much stronger, though, I'll give him that).

Watt > Suh.

I don't mean any disrespect to Suh at all in that- I think Suh is a generational talent and a future Hall of Famer. But I also realize he's gone, and there's absolutely nothing I can do to bring him back. I've been trying very hard to just ignore your venting and not start a fight like we tend to do, so can I please say with the utmost respect (I'm being honest there, not snarky) that being needlessly belligerent to a bunch of fellow Lions fans online won't solve the issue of Suh being gone. He was the best player on our defense, but far from our only good one. Quin was even "great" if you want to quantify guys specifically. Slay showed flashes of greatness capped by an elite showing in our biggest game of the year.

We got some serious talent on the defense. Be mad about Suh leaving- it fucking sucks, no argument from me. But don't discount the guy we still have and their ability to be a top 5 unit again next season.

 

[Microwahevo]

The list had him 18th. 18th is mediocre in my book.

Yes, you are right. I actually thought you were talking about Suh.

 

[tpaulus_2]

For me the misses in the draft, the dead money holding them back from being FA players, and not having a better plan on dealing with Suh tells me Mayhew has and is over his head in dealing with other GMs and agents.

Right here right now I am still not sure what the Lions plans were regarding Suh. Sign him until a certain salary demand could not be met. Wait to try to match another offer and hope he stays in Detroit. Just decide to move on and tell fans they tried when they didn't?

If Mayhew can pull a rabbit out of his ass and fill the holes to make this team competitive I will be impressed but considering they need 2 more DTs, a nickel back, a guard, RB, and a tackle I don't see that happening.

A.) Every team has some needs, nobody has surefire guys at every position. RT is a great example of this for us- we have three good prospects there, one of which has actually played very well but can't stay healthy, the other two have very limited experience. At least having young guys coming through the system ensure's it's not an outright hole, at least.

2.) How many DTs do you expect us to carry this year? We have three DTs on the roster at the moment, and Jason Jones is reportedly expected to see a good amount of time on inside again this year. Ngata is a guaranteed starter and Walker is a good bet to either start, or at least split significant reps with the 3rd DT. Add in Jones on passing downs, and Reid progressing along from last year, and we're by no means in bad shape at the position. If we have an opportunity to add a top-flight DT prospect in the draft I think we should because I think that would give us the opportunity to keep the interior of the D-line a major strength for us, but I think our overall need at the position is pretty limited right now.

Basically we need one DT- not sure where the idea that we still need two DTs is coming from? And I'm not singling you out on this one, I've seen that posted several times now by various posters.

 

[tpaulus_2]

The list had him 18th. 18th is mediocre in my book.

Also thought y

Yes, you are right. I actually thought you were talking about Suh.

I also thought that quote was directed at Suh... the consensus on Mayhew seems to be that he's mediocre, so I don't see any people freaking out about that with the exception of Dr. Meow, who can't stand the guy...

 

[lionstop1]

If the Lions had Watt instead of Suh this year....off to the SB they go.