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Anybody got scoop on Knowshon or Champ?

Broncos6482

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I fail to see how there's a definite "glaring" need at cornerback. Aqib Talib opposite Chris Harris seems to be a pretty good combo, and then there's Webster (who's still developing) that showed some promise. And then some depth with Tony Carter. At RB, there's Ball, Anderson, and Hillman. So, really there isn't a pressing need at either position. I'd say if there's any pressing needs, it's at linebacker for defense, and OL depth on offense (I'd include a FB in this too, although I know there are a couple who disagree. Personally, I'd like to have an offense capable of gaining more than 20 yards on the ground against tough defenses, and at least one former Bronco agrees).

I'd rather take BPA with a third round pick. If it's a RB, great, if it's a CB, great! If it's a center, so be it. Denver has reached a point where they don't HAVE to draft to needs anymore. And that's a good thing!

I think corner is the biggest need on this team still. Yes, you have Talib. Of course, the thing about Talib is you don't know if he can make it through the season healthy, so quality depth behind him would be nice. Then you've got Chris Harris, who tore his acl just a few months ago; I think expecting him to be playing at his high level by week 1 is a pipe dream. You don't just recover from that overnight. Even Adrian Peterson, who had probably the quickest recovery from an acl injury ever, didn't have his first 100 yard game until week 4, and didn't really start to dominate until week 7. So even if Harris is playing week 1, I think best case is he's not up to his usual self until around week 8.

That leaves you with Talib, a still recovering Harris, and Webster as your nickel? I don't see how that's an upgrade over last year's secondary, which was awful. The pass rush better get there really fast if that's the case, because to me that looks like a secondary that can be exploited.

I don't watch enough college football to know who would be a good pick, but I really hope Denver addresses corner in the first round, with a guy who's ready to go from the gate. If that means trading up, I'm ok with that, too. If you draft a corner, that means you can either move Harris back to the nickel where he won't play quite as much while he recovers, or just let him really heal up and not rush him at all so he can be totally healthy when he comes back.
 

Broncos6482

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I would agree that we need a stronger running game but that has as much to do with Gase and Manning as it does with Ball/Anderson/Hilman. We place an extra emphasis on passing for obvious reasons. I would probably look at upgrading the O-line before RB.

As for CB, we have Talib, who has struggled to stay healthy for an entire season. I think he has done it once. We have Chris Harris, coming back from a torn ACL. We have Webster, who may progress, I think he has shown some talent. And we have Carter, who gets beat like a drum against quality opponents. Are you telling me you are confident in those 4 stay healthy all year long and not getting worked over by the better receivers we are likely to see in the playoffs? Many said we needed a CB going into FA; we traded DRC for Talib. Net result is that a CB would still be needed.

I am not saying it has to be a first pick but I think it should be very high on the priority list. Even if we can assume the pass rush is much better I think we could use a some more talent in the defensive backfield. Especially considering we like the nickel and I don't want to see Omar Bolden coming out to cover people again.

I think it should be the first pick. I don't see any position on this team that looks as weak as corner does. That's still a glaring hole IMO.
 

WalkerBoh

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I think corner is the biggest need on this team still. Yes, you have Talib. Of course, the thing about Talib is you don't know if he can make it through the season healthy, so quality depth behind him would be nice. Then you've got Chris Harris, who tore his acl just a few months ago; I think expecting him to be playing at his high level by week 1 is a pipe dream. You don't just recover from that overnight. Even Adrian Peterson, who had probably the quickest recovery from an acl injury ever, didn't have his first 100 yard game until week 4, and didn't really start to dominate until week 7. So even if Harris is playing week 1, I think best case is he's not up to his usual self until around week 8.

That leaves you with Talib, a still recovering Harris, and Webster as your nickel? I don't see how that's an upgrade over last year's secondary, which was awful. The pass rush better get there really fast if that's the case, because to me that looks like a secondary that can be exploited.

I don't watch enough college football to know who would be a good pick, but I really hope Denver addresses corner in the first round, with a guy who's ready to go from the gate. If that means trading up, I'm ok with that, too. If you draft a corner, that means you can either move Harris back to the nickel where he won't play quite as much while he recovers, or just let him really heal up and not rush him at all so he can be totally healthy when he comes back.

Problem is, we don't live in an ideal world, and the team you (and other's) would "prefer" wouldn't fit under a salary cap. We currently have Talib, Harris, T. Carter and Webster under contract. And as far as Harris goes, the FO would have a far better assessment of his recovery than you or I would, and it appears they are very confident in his return. As for comparisons, he's more comparable to Revis than to Peterson anyway, and Revis still graded out pretty well last season. Denver's defense can at the very least be servicable at CB, and probably still one of the better units in the NFL, w/out picking up another player.

On the other hand, we REALLY could use some more O-Line depth. Would I reach for it in the draft? No. But I'd see that need as a bit more pressing. MLB depth could be useful too, while either Irving or Trevathan can develop into our "defensive QB" (This is assuming Trevathan can move to MLB, with Miller and Ware outside, but pure speculation on my part) S. Johnson is the only other ILB/MLB under contract.

I'm not saying we ignore CB (or any other position, except maybe PK and P). But we're not so hard up at the position that it's an absolute imperative we pick up another CB capable of starting immediately. I think Denver's at the point where they can pick more based on BPA than based on any perceived need. That way, they can make better draft day decisions that maximize that draft's success.
 

Broncos6482

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Problem is, we don't live in an ideal world, and the team you (and other's) would "prefer" wouldn't fit under a salary cap.

What are you talking about? I'm talking about Denver addressing corner early in the draft (preferably with their first pick). I'm pretty sure they've got the cap for their draft picks, regardless of position.

We currently have Talib, Harris, T. Carter and Webster under contract. And as far as Harris goes, the FO would have a far better assessment of his recovery than you or I would, and it appears they are very confident in his return. As for comparisons, he's more comparable to Revis than to Peterson anyway, and Revis still graded out pretty well last season.

Revis went down with his injury in the third game of the season. That gave him nearly a 4 month head start on recovery over Harris. That's a ton of time.

Denver's defense can at the very least be servicable at CB, and probably still one of the better units in the NFL, w/out picking up another player.

Do you think Denver had one of the better corner units in the league last year? Because I don't see how they've improved much. You've replaced DRC with Talib, that's a marginal upgrade at best, you've replaced healthy Chris Harris with recovering from injury Chris Harris, and you hopefully have an improving Webster. That unit doesn't look any better to me than the one from 2013, and depending on Harris's health, it may be worse.

On the other hand, we REALLY could use some more O-Line depth. Would I reach for it in the draft? No. But I'd see that need as a bit more pressing. MLB depth could be useful too, while either Irving or Trevathan can develop into our "defensive QB" (This is assuming Trevathan can move to MLB, with Miller and Ware outside, but pure speculation on my part) S. Johnson is the only other ILB/MLB under contract.

I agree we need o-line depth and MLB help, but I don't think they're nearly as urgent as corner. Right now corner is the biggest glaring weakness on this team, and the thought of opening the season with Talib, Harris, and Webster as the team's top 3 corners is pretty terrifying.

I'm not saying we ignore CB (or any other position, except maybe PK and P). But we're not so hard up at the position that it's an absolute imperative we pick up another CB capable of starting immediately. I think Denver's at the point where they can pick more based on BPA than based on any perceived need. That way, they can make better draft day decisions that maximize that draft's success.

I disagree, we're extremely thin at corner and I'd argue it's clearly the weakest link on this team. A lot of people thought the Broncos should address corner even if they brought DRC back, well trading out DRC for Talib doesn't drastically improve the position. It helps, but it doesn't fix it.
 

MrDoc420

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I think it should be the first pick. I don't see any position on this team that looks as weak as corner does. That's still a glaring hole IMO.

Makes it even more puzzling as to why no real attempt to get Champ back. Somebody said it in another thread......an 80% Champ is better than 95% of the corners out there.
 

Malibu

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MLB and CB are the top 2 glaring needs for the Broncos. O line help and another RB later in the draft unless Moreno comes back. Cant assume Harris will be 100% and Talib does have injury and off the field issues in his career. They need another CB. Can never have enough of CB's.
 

MrDoc420

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Broncosr0k

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Makes it even more puzzling as to why no real attempt to get Champ back. Somebody said it in another thread......an 80% Champ is better than 95% of the corners out there.

I am not sure Champ is even 80% of what he used to be. Either that or he wants more money that is realistic. I also think 80% champ better than 95% of CBs is a bit of an exaggeration.

but to essentially just shove aside a 1000+ yard 10+ TD RB like we're all set otherwise is a bit of a head scratcher to me....

Depends on how much money he wants. I tend to think RBs have seen the best days of the position pass. More and more people are finding a couple of undrafted or late round picks carry the load for a couple of years and then are dumped for the next crop. I would like Moreno to comeback but if he thinks he will get 4-5 million I don't know that he is worth it.
 

MrDoc420

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Ok, I'll agree that if it was a dispute with Champ over money; then Denver made the right choice by cutting him loose. However, I absolutely refuse to think he wouldn't stay here on the cheap if given the chance. I will say though that if he were 100% healthy, I would absolutely take him over most of the corners in this league. Maybe 95% was a bit of stretch. Maybe.

And also agree with you that Knowshon isn't gonna get $5+ million a year, but I do think his importance to this team is being highly discounted. I mean, if we threw a 3 year/$10 million deal at him you know he'd be all over it. Is he not worth that much to us after the year he just had, and also with the very real uncertainty with the RB's remaining on the roster (draft not included)?
 

randymon

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Ok, I'll agree that if it was a dispute with Champ over money; then Denver made the right choice by cutting him loose. However, I absolutely refuse to think he wouldn't stay here on the cheap if given the chance. I will say though that if he were 100% healthy, I would absolutely take him over most of the corners in this league. Maybe 95% was a bit of stretch. Maybe.

And also agree with you that Knowshon isn't gonna get $5+ million a year, but I do think his importance to this team is being highly discounted. I mean, if we threw a 3 year/$10 million deal at him you know he'd be all over it. Is he not worth that much to us after the year he just had, and also with the very real uncertainty with the RB's remaining on the roster (draft not included)?

Don`t forget rb Jerodis Williams is on roster too!! :noidea::yahoo:
 

MrDoc420

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LOL...my bad randy. He's the next 1000 yard phenom for the Broncos ;)
 

BobGnarly

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MrDoc420

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Shitty.
 

randymon

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Looking more like a rb in rd 3 for Denver.......or?....Earlier??....Bush is still out there.......Cant wait for May.....We all might want to prepare for some craziness.....:noidea:
 

MrDoc420

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Never been a big fan of Bush, and if we can't get Knowshon back then I guess I would think a mid round back would be in order.....just for depth.

I can't my mind past the fact that Knowshon FINALLY gave Denver the season they've all been wanting out of him for 4 years, and now he's being shown the door.
 

WalkerBoh

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Never been a big fan of Bush, and if we can't get Knowshon back then I guess I would think a mid round back would be in order.....just for depth.

I can't my mind past the fact that Knowshon FINALLY gave Denver the season they've all been wanting out of him for 4 years, and now he's being shown the door.

Maybe he's wanting more money then Denver feels he's worth :noidea:

Moreno's history has been spotty. Last season was really the only season he had w/out issues. Perhaps Denver feels last season was more abboration than a new normal. Wouldn't be the first time a player had a "career year" right before FA, only to regress after the new contract is signed (if that is what happens with Moreno.... the season will tell the tale). I think it's obvious that they are really high on Ball, and feel he better represents the future of the team than Moreno does.
 

Miked383

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Looks like Knowshon just signed a 1 year deal with the Dolphins.
 

BobGnarly

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Yup. One year/3 mil with the Fins
 
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