Ansah Prediction

[Quackerjacked]

Bench isn't a great metric for strength when a guy is as long as Ansah is. The guy has monkey arms which make his 21 at least as, but I'd say more impressive than Avril's 27. That is what makes him such a freak, not the speed, but the speed size, length combination.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Bench isn't a great metric for strength when a guy is as long as Ansah is. The guy has monkey arms which make his 21 at least as, but I'd say more impressive than Avril's 27. That is what makes him such a freak, not the speed, but the speed size, length combination.

I don't know what Avril's wingspan is, nor can I find it anywhere. I do know, these were Avril's combine numbers.

6'3" 253 lbs
4.51 40 yard dash
32.5" vertical leap
117" broad jump
6.90 3 cone drill
1.50 10 yard split in the 40
27 reps at 225 lbs

Here are Ansah's combine stats:

6'5" 271 lbs
4.63 40 yard dash
34.5" vertical leap
117" broad jump
7.11 3 cone drill
1.61 10 yard split in the 40
21 reps at 225 lbs

I'd say the stats between the two guys are very comparable. Ansah has 2" and 18 lbs on Avril and a higher vertical leap. Avril was faster in the 40, the 10 yard split, 3 cones and put up more reps in the bench.

 

[Old Lion]

Here's a quick fact: Cliff Avril blows!

And will suck beyond the telling of it in Seattle this year. They paid millions for an injured player who will never be the same player in a traditional defense. We dumped this kid at just the right time.

I bet Cliff is barely even in any games and will be hampered by injury all year. Maybe the year after he becomes a decent situational pass rusher, but that's it.

 

[RobBase]

Avril's success is directly tied to Suh. Period. He sucked before Suh came to the D, and only became relevant once Suh was put next to him. He never made a Pro Bowl. He was never offered an elite contract. The media made him out to be this top 5 FA then he sat there for weeks until Seattle offered him a measly 2 year "prove it" deal.

Ansah is an immediate upgrade over Avril from a purely physical standpoint. He should be able to notch 5 "Avril sacks" (basically cleaning up Suh's messes) just being out there for 16 games. Add another 5-6 "effort sacks" and I think dude can notch DD in year 1.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Avril's success is directly tied to Suh. Period. He sucked before Suh came to the D, and only became relevant once Suh was put next to him. He never made a Pro Bowl. He was never offered an elite contract. The media made him out to be this top 5 FA then he sat there for weeks until Seattle offered him a measly 2 year "prove it" deal.

Ansah is an immediate upgrade over Avril from a purely physical standpoint. He should be able to notch 5 "Avril sacks" (basically cleaning up Suh's messes) just being out there for 16 games. Add another 5-6 "effort sacks" and I think dude can notch DD in year 1.

Avril's 1st two years in the league Pre-Suh -- he had 10.5 sacks and 7 forced fumbles. Are you going to say Ansah sucks if he has 10.5 sacks and 7 forced fumbles in his 1st two years?

Here is what I don't get I supposed? Avril sucks, even though in 5 years with Detroit he put up 39.5 sacks, forced 16 fumbles, recovered 5 fumbles and scored 3 defensive touchdowns. He was only good because of Suh, period. (personally, i think the Wide 9 had a lot more to do with his success than Suh, but so be it)

Yet Ansah only puts up 4.5 sacks in college and it wasn't his fault, "it was BYU's". He struggles during the Senior Bowl week of practices and then has a great game. Now because of that one game -- people are predicting him to step in and produced like Cliff Avril in his rookie year.

Just out of curiousity -- what is the upgrade in the purely physical standpoint? Because he is 2" inches taller and weighs 8 lbs more than Avril?

Also -- are you going to say Ansah sucks if he has 40 sacks and 16 forced fumbles in his 1st 5 years with the Lions?

It just really confuses me -- Avril has been the one consistent on the Lions defense over the last 3 years, yet fans want to give the credit elsewhere and talk about how he is no good. What kind of stats would a DE have to put up in the Lions defense to be considered a good DE?

 

[Thruthefog]

The main reason I was attracted to football, is because stats don't tell you shit about the game.

 

[RobBase]

Avril's 1st two years in the league Pre-Suh -- he had 10.5 sacks and 7 forced fumbles. Are you going to say Ansah sucks if he has 10.5 sacks and 7 forced fumbles in his 1st two years?

Here is what I don't get I supposed? Avril sucks, even though in 5 years with Detroit he put up 39.5 sacks, forced 16 fumbles, recovered 5 fumbles and scored 3 defensive touchdowns. He was only good because of Suh, period. (personally, i think the Wide 9 had a lot more to do with his success than Suh, but so be it)

Yet Ansah only puts up 4.5 sacks in college and it wasn't his fault, "it was BYU's". He struggles during the Senior Bowl week of practices and then has a great game. Now because of that one game -- people are predicting him to step in and produced like Cliff Avril in his rookie year.

Just out of curiousity -- what is the upgrade in the purely physical standpoint? Because he is 2" inches taller and weighs 8 lbs more than Avril?

Also -- are you going to say Ansah sucks if he has 40 sacks and 16 forced fumbles in his 1st 5 years with the Lions?

It just really confuses me -- Avril has been the one consistent on the Lions defense over the last 3 years, yet fans want to give the credit elsewhere and talk about how he is no good. What kind of stats would a DE have to put up in the Lions defense to be considered a good DE?

You need to get into coaching, hang out with some former football players. Something. It's a real task trying to explain everything all the time but I personally try because I respect your effort and feedback. All you need to know right now is the Lions (and no one else) paid Avril for a reason. Maybe Ansah will get double digit sacks, maybe be won't, but acting like Avril was some elite player is nonsense. You say "Avril has been the one consistent on the Lions defense over the last 3 years" and I say bullshit. If anything, he was wildly inconsistent. If he really was one consistent on the Lions defense over the last 3 years he would be in Detroit with the 6 or 7 year deal he wanted, and not in Seattle on his 2nd straight "prove it" deal.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

but acting like Avril was some elite player is nonsense.

Nowhere in this thread will you hear me say Avril has been an elite player since joining the Lions. I said if a player gets double digit sacks in a season -- he was one of the elite pass rushers that year. Avril fell into that category exactly once in 5 years with Detroit, when he had 11.5 sacks, 6 forced fumbled, 3 fumble recoveries (2 that he returned for a touchdown) and an interception (which he returned for a touchdown). Are you saying in 2011 -- Cliff Avril wasn't one of the elite pass rushers in the NFL?

All I said about Avril is -- he has been productive. 39.5 sacks, 16 forced fumbles and 5 fumble recoveries to go along with 3 touchdowns is pretty productive, especially for a 3rd round pick. Who is the last Lions to put up 39.5 sacks in a 5 year span?

 

[RobBase]

Are you saying in 2011 -- Cliff Avril wasn't one of the elite pass rushers in the NFL?

Yes

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You say "Avril has been the one consistent on the Lions defense over the last 3 years" and I say bullshit. If anything, he was wildly inconsistent. If he really was one consistent on the Lions defense over the last 3 years he would be in Detroit with the 6 or 7 year deal he wanted, and not in Seattle on his 2nd straight "prove it" deal.

What has been wildly inconsistent about Avril play the last 3 years? He has had 33, 36 and 35 tackles to go with 8.5, 11.5 and 9.5 sacks. The only stat where he had a spike is in 2011 when he forced 6 fumbles and scored 3 touchdowns -- he only had 3 forced fumbles in the other 2 years combined and 0 touchdowns.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Originally Posted by TrustMeIamRight
Are you saying in 2011 -- Cliff Avril wasn't one of the elite pass rushers in the NFL?
Yes

What does it take to be considered an elite pass rusher if Tied for 11th in sacks and 2nd in forced fumbles doesn't make you and elite pass rusher for a year?

 

[RobBase]

What does it take to be considered an elite pass rusher if Tied for 11th in sacks and 2nd in forced fumbles doesn't make you and elite pass rusher for a year?

Ask NFL teams who pay DE's elite money. Avril is not one of those guys making elite DE money. If he ended 2011 as an elite player, he would have been paid like one in 2012. And he wasn't. And he still isn't.

 

[tpaulus_2]

He struggles during the Senior Bowl week of practices and then has a great game. Now because of that one game -- people are predicting him to step in and produced like Cliff Avril in his rookie year.

This is where you lose me.

You always try to pigeon-hole everyone's argument against you into something like this, something concrete that you can throw at us to "prove it." Problem is that nobody (besides you) ever said any of our predictions about Ansah were tied to that one Senior Bowl game.

This is the exact same crap as with Devin Taylor and his physical attributes- you're losing the debate, so you latch onto one little piece of the argument and try to hijack the whole thread with it.

Please stop putting your words in our mouths and then telling us were wrong for it.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Just out of curiousity -- what is the upgrade in the purely physical standpoint? Because he is 2" inches taller and weighs 8 lbs more than Avril?

Avril is 6'3" 260 lbs after 5 years in the league. Ansah is coming in as a rookie at 3" taller and over 10 lbs heavier. He also has much longer arms and a much bigger wingspan. He's already stronger.

I think you're just being spiteful now, any intelligent person who follows football realizes that Ansah is a huge physical upgrade over Avril, who is limited out as far as his playing size goes. Ansah still has room to grow and is already bigger and stronger. You do the math...

 

[tpaulus_2]

I'd like to add my $.02 on Avril:

He was a good pass-rusher and a good play-maker, but not a good overall DE.

That being said, our system is (or rather was, looks like we're finally bringing in some size at DE) built on smaller, fast DEs who rush the passer better than playing the run.

Avril could rush the passer well, and forced a lot of plays by flying around the edge. We can't really fault him for not being a big factor in the run game when the scheme wasn't designed for him to make many tackles. He was also great at disrupting screens. My only fault with him is that he wasn't consistent enough- too many multiple sack games with weeks of no sacks at all in between.

Basically Cliff had one job in our scheme and did a very good job at it. Was/is he an elite DE? No. Can you make the argument that he is an elite pass rusher though? I'd say so- he's very good at that aspect of the game.

I think Seattle knows exactly what they're getting with him- a very good situational pass rusher. As long as they use him in that role and don't expect him to be an every-down DE then they should be in good shape...

 

[RobBase]

Hey Tpaulus go make your prediction in the http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/...icial-mike-thomas-stat-prediction-thread.html

 

[tpaulus_2]

What has been wildly inconsistent about Avril play the last 3 years? He has had 33, 36 and 35 tackles to go with 8.5, 11.5 and 9.5 sacks. The only stat where he had a spike is in 2011 when he forced 6 fumbles and scored 3 touchdowns -- he only had 3 forced fumbles in the other 2 years combined and 0 touchdowns.

I'll answer for Swarm on this one- the inconsistencies are on a game-by-game basis. Those cumulative stats you posted are indeed impressive, but too many came in single games against weaker opponents. Far too often Cliff would have virtually no impact, especially in big games it seemed.

His overall production was very good, and on a team like Seattle where he can be a role player he'll do well, especially when they got him at the right price. However, on a team like ours, where he was one of our best defensive players, we simply needed a DE who could consistently impact games, especially at the price he was seeking...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Hey Tpaulus go make your prediction in the http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/...icial-mike-thomas-stat-prediction-thread.html

Haha, nice.

I made a prediction on his stats on another thread, so I'll have to dig that up to see where I stand. I think it was 600 or 700 total yards (rushing and receiving) and 3-5 TDs iirc...

 

[Microwahevo]

Ziggy Ansah coming out of BYU--6'5" 271 lbs
Cliff Avril coming out of Purdon't--6'3" 251 lbs(is now 260)

Just saying in case anyone wants to use this later in the thread. Not sure what info these fellas need to keep it going.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Avril is 6'3" 260 lbs after 5 years in the league. Ansah is coming in as a rookie at 3" taller and over 10 lbs heavier. He also has much longer arms and a much bigger wingspan. He's already stronger.

I think you're just being spiteful now, any intelligent person who follows football realizes that Ansah is a huge physical upgrade over Avril, who is limited out as far as his playing size goes. Ansah still has room to grow and is already bigger and stronger. You do the math...

Explain to me how Ansah is stronger than Avril? Avril lifted 225 6 times more than Ansah 5 years ago. He now has 5 years of working out with NFL strength coaches, yet Ansah is stronger?!? Explain to me how that is possible?