An Inconvenient Truth About Washington....

[TheDayMan]

Yes -- if you have over half your starters returning -- you aren't rebuilding. Do you think honestly think you could do what OSU did when they lost 4 or 5 1st round draft picks and only had 7 returning starters total and have a top 5 team the majority of the year?

If you are losing 4, 5, 6 guys and have 16, 17, 18 returning -- that isn't rebuilding. Teams like Bama and OSU can do this. Mack Wilson is listed as their 3rd string WLB (freshman 5 star recruit), Da'Shaun Hand is listed as 2nd string DE (was the #2 or #3 recruit in the country, 5 star) Teams like that have 5 star recruits backing up their starters (Bama more than anyone else)

Are you even paying attention? For the fourth time, they will most likely be losing more than half their starters on defense... I didn't claim they will be rebuilding, but they will have to reload at some key spots on defense. The whole point here is you claimed that you don't think this is Washington's year, but maybe in the next two years. You have yet to justify that comment.

I don't know what the fuck you're saying about what OSU did, but whatever it is, it seems to contradict your claim that Washington's year will come in the next two years.

No one's trying to claim UW is doing what OSU and Bama do with reloading, you brought that up, all I've done hear is ask you to justify your comment about UW needing another year (which again, still waiting, maybe drop the 'you can't do what bama and OSU does' bullshit in your explanation, because it has nothing to do with anything), and somewhere in that conversation I said I'm confident that Petersen will have guys ready to fill the spots, but it's never a guarantee, and it'd be nice to capitalize with the defense they have now.

 

[TheDayMan]

Can I also count the points scored against us when we were missing 2 of our best players on defense and 3 starters total?

I'm thinking I can get Michigan's PPG down to under 3 a game, as Jourdan Lewis and Taco Charlton didn't even play in our 1st 3 games.

Jesus... no one's trying to cherry pick stats here, you wanted to take out the games that brought UW's average points allowed per game below 20. If you want to do that it's worth considering that in all but 2 games garbage points had an effect on that stat. Football's a situational game... if you want to criticize a team for giving up 20.5 points per game in conference, you should factor in they are averaging 47 + per game.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Per ESPN: "Washington leads the nation in scoring (48 ppg), differential (+31.3 ppg) and TO margin (+22) during its 12-game winning streak."

Who leads the nation in scoring differential in 2016?

Don't ask a question if you already know the answer. Unlike Harbaugh, Washington doesn't keep it cranked up the entire game. Harbaugh was a cvnt about that when he was at Stanford and Frisco.

College Football Stats - College FB Team Average Scoring Margin on TeamRankings.com

I'm looking for a little clarification here, Mr. Guy.

Based on the quoted posts, it looks like you were bragging about Washington having the highest point deferential during their 12 wins, then it was pointed out that Washington does not have the highest point differential this season and you proceeded to bash the team with the highest point differential because they beat teams by too many points.

Am I understanding all that correctly?

 

[AlaskaGuy]

The same Utah who barely beat BYU, struggled against Oregon State, lost to Cal and gave up 45 points to UCLA, who was playing without Josh Rosen? That Utah?

If UM and OSU are 'decent' -- Utah isn't even in the same stratosphere.

I keep hearing 'playing withot

I'm looking for a little clarification here, Mr. Guy.

Based on the quoted posts, it looks like you were bragging about Washington having the highest point deferential during their 12 wins, then it was pointed out that Washington does not have the highest point differential this season and you proceeded to bash the team with the highest point differential because they beat teams by too many points.

Am I understanding all that correctly?

What I said was Harbaugh is known for not taking his foot off the gas.

 

[jon2tanman]

Harbaugh is a piece of shit.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

What I said was Harbaugh is known for not taking his foot off the gas.

That doesn't clear it up much for me.

Maybe lets Occam's Razor this down for simplicity's sake. Please answer the following questions, in order:

1) were you bragging about Washington having the highest point differential over their last 12 games?
2) was it pointed out to you that Washington doesn't have the highest point differential this season?
3) did you discredit the team with the highest point differential this season because they beat their opponents by too many points?

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Harbaugh is a piece of shit.

Yep. A creepy, bugger-eating, recruit-banging piece of shit.

 

[TheDayMan]

Harbaugh is a piece of shit.

Solid 9th post. 9/10

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Solid 9th post. 9/10

I hadn't even noticed that, Mr The Man. Thanks for pointing it out.

That kid might have a bright future on here.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Are you even paying attention? For the fourth time, they will most likely be losing more than half their starters on defense... I didn't claim they will be rebuilding, but they will have to reload at some key spots on defense. The whole point here is you claimed that you don't think this is Washington's year, but maybe in the next two years. You have yet to justify that comment.

I don't know what the fuck you're saying about what OSU did, but whatever it is, it seems to contradict your claim that Washington's year will come in the next two years.

No one's trying to claim UW is doing what OSU and Bama do with reloading, you brought that up, all I've done hear is ask you to justify your comment about UW needing another year (which again, still waiting, maybe drop the 'you can't do what bama and OSU does' bullshit in your explanation, because it has nothing to do with anything), and somewhere in that conversation I said I'm confident that Petersen will have guys ready to fill the spots, but it's never a guarantee, and it'd be nice to capitalize with the defense they have now.

What I'm saying is -- you only have 5 senior starters TOTAL. You only have two seniors starting on defense. You are talking as if Washington's entire team is leaving. Even if Baker, Jones and Ross leave. You will STILL have 14 returning starters.

When I mentioned Bama and OSU -- they lose more guys early on a yearly basis than anyone and don't skip a beat. OSU only returned 7 starters TOTAL this season, so they had to replace 15 starters. That is why I said teams like OSU and Bama are truly the only teams who are reloading.

IMO, Washington has a chance to be really special next year, if guys like Jones or Baker or both return. Experience is something you can't teach. Washington, if they make it to the CFP, will be a team who has never experienced it. Hell -- they haven't even experienced a season where they didn't lose at least 5 or 6 games until this year.

UM is/was in the same boat. It is why guys who were named all-American last year, like Jake Butt and Jourdan Lewis returned for their senior year. That is why I said not to assume a player is automatically leaving.

There is a reason why Vegas has Washington as an almost 2 TD underdog if they play Bama. There is also a reason why they have them as underdogs to Michigan, Ohio State, Clemson and Louisville. They have done great, but their signature win is against a very average Utah team with a late punt return.

 

[TheDayMan]

What I'm saying is -- you only have 5 senior starters TOTAL. You only have two seniors starting on defense. You are talking as if Washington's entire team is leaving. Even if Baker, Jones and Ross leave. You will STILL have 14 returning starters.

When I mentioned Bama and OSU -- they lose more guys early on a yearly basis than anyone and don't skip a beat. OSU only returned 7 starters TOTAL this season, so they had to replace 15 starters. That is why I said teams like OSU and Bama are truly the only teams who are reloading.

IMO, Washington has a chance to be really special next year, if guys like Jones or Baker or both return. Experience is something you can't teach. Washington, if they make it to the CFP, will be a team who has never experienced it. Hell -- they haven't even experienced a season where they didn't lose at least 5 or 6 games until this year.

UM is/was in the same boat. It is why guys who were named all-American last year, like Jake Butt and Jourdan Lewis returned for their senior year. That is why I said not to assume a player is automatically leaving.

There is a reason why Vegas has Washington as an almost 2 TD underdog if they play Bama. There is also a reason why they have them as underdogs to Michigan, Ohio State, Clemson and Louisville. They have done great, but their signature win is against a very average Utah team with a late punt return.

No, I'm acting as if 6 key defensive players are leaving... Only 4 seniors doesn't mean we'll only be losing 4 players.

The offense is is fine and will continue to be great, even without Ross, but you need both.

Again, OSU and Bama are irrelevant to the situation. Baker and Jones returning is huge, and the only way saying you think next year is the year makes sense. I guess now it just boils down to what makes you think they'll be returneding. I'll be shocked if they both do, or even if one does.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Jesus... no one's trying to cherry pick stats here, you wanted to take out the games that brought UW's average points allowed per game below 20. If you want to do that it's worth considering that in all but 2 games garbage points had an effect on that stat. Football's a situational game... if you want to criticize a team for giving up 20.5 points per game in conference, you should factor in they are averaging 47 + per game.

when that was mentioned about garbage time -- I just asked if UM could do the same, as they have only had 23 points scored on them in conference play when the game was within a bare minimum of a 3 TD lead in the 4th quarter, most have been when it was a 4,5 or 6 TD lead

In all honesty. I'm just having fun with AG. He put up the point differential and blah, blah, blah. If you want to go by the numbers -- UM is far and away the best team. We have the top scoring defense and the #3 scoring offense. We are #1 in the country in point differential.

The difference between me and most fans -- the stats only tell part of the story. Bama has the best defense and it isn't very close. Offensively -- I'd say Ole Miss had the best offense, but without Chad Kelly, they are not anymore. You can take your pick on any number of teams now -- none of those teams being Michigan -- even though stats say otherwise.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

No, I'm acting as if 6 key defensive players are leaving... Only 4 seniors doesn't mean we'll only be losing 4 players.

The offense is is fine and will continue to be great, even without Ross, but you need both.

Again, OSU and Bama are irrelevant to the situation. Baker and Jones returning is huge, and the only way saying you think next year is the year makes sense. I guess now it just boils down to what makes you think they'll be returneding. I'll be shocked if they both do, or even if one does.

You can act as if 6 are leaving, but unless they are seniors, you don't know. As I said -- UM had two juniors who were all-Americans come back for their senior year. They could have left, been drafted early and been playing on Sunday's.

You are looking at it as a worst case scenario. Right now the only Washington on defense in the top 32 on CBS is Jones at 22. The only other Washington player in the top 32 is Ross at 28.

Don't be surprised if you see a few come back to improve their draft stock, especially with the new rookie pay scale.

 

[TheDayMan]

when that was mentioned about garbage time -- I just asked if UM could do the same, as they have only had 23 points scored on them in conference play when the game was within a bare minimum of a 3 TD lead in the 4th quarter, most have been when it was a 4,5 or 6 TD lead

In all honesty. I'm just having fun with AG. He put up the point differential and blah, blah, blah. If you want to go by the numbers -- UM is far and away the best team. We have the top scoring defense and the #3 scoring offense. We are #1 in the country in point differential.

The difference between me and most fans -- the stats only tell part of the story. Bama has the best defense and it isn't very close. Offensively -- I'd say Ole Miss had the best offense, but without Chad Kelly, they are not anymore. You can take your pick on any number of teams now -- none of those teams being Michigan -- even though stats say otherwise.

Well, Washington's the team on blast here, I don't really care what you want to do with Michigan's stats. No one's trying to argue their place.

Stats are absolutely only a part of the picture, that was pretty much the point I was trying to make in regards to the average points per game thing.

 

[TheDayMan]

You can act as if 6 are leaving, but unless they are seniors, you don't know. As I said -- UM had two juniors who were all-Americans come back for their senior year. They could have left, been drafted early and been playing on Sunday's.

You are looking at it as a worst case scenario. Right now the only Washington on defense in the top 32 on CBS is Jones at 22. The only other Washington player in the top 32 is Ross at 28.

Don't be surprised if you see a few come back to improve their draft stock, especially with the new rookie pay scale.

I am looking at worst case scenario. We'll see what happens, I hope you're right.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I am looking at worst case scenario. We'll see what happens, I hope you're right.

If it were pre-rookie salary cap scale. I'd agree that players would be jumping ship. With the contracts being cut way down -- players want to get drafted as high as possible.

It will come down to where Washington players looking to leave early rank against others leaving from the position they play. From what I've seen -- it looks like Jones is ranked 5th at CB and Baker is ranked 4th at safety.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Well, Washington's the team on blast here, I don't really care what you want to do with Michigan's stats. No one's trying to argue their place.

Stats are absolutely only a part of the picture, that was pretty much the point I was trying to make in regards to the average points per game thing.

i understand. I'm guessing Washington fans understand why though. Going to OT with a bad Arizona team and needing a punt return TD in the 4th quarter to beat a very average Utah team and that is Washington's signature win thus far.

 

[TheDayMan]

i understand. I'm guessing Washington fans understand why though. Going to OT with a bad Arizona team and needing a punt return TD in the 4th quarter to beat a very average Utah team and that is Washington's signature win thus far.

I understand criticism for a weak out of conference schedule. I think any argument against them for Arizona or Utah is ridiculous and shows a lack of understanding. Arizona is bad, I wouldn't call Utah very average, they're a good, but not great team. Either way, it's not neither of the two exposed UW. The Huskies were clearly the better team in both games. If you want to fault them for making mistakes and letting either team stay in the game, that's fine, but it happens to every good team, they still found a way to win despite the mistakes.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I understand criticism for a weak out of conference schedule. I think any argument against them for Arizona or Utah is ridiculous and shows a lack of understanding. Arizona is bad, I wouldn't call Utah very average, they're a good, but not great team. Either way, it's not neither of the two exposed UW. The Huskies were clearly the better team in both games. If you want to fault them for making mistakes and letting either team stay in the game, that's fine, but it happens to every good team, they still found a way to win despite the mistakes.

Arizona and Washington -- You went to Overtime, even though Arizona had 3 turnovers to only 1 for Washington. First downs were 24-23, total yards were 510-475, Washington averaged 6.9 ypc, Arizona averaged 7.2.

How is that clearly the better team?

Utah and Washington -- Total yards were basically the same 384-376, First downs were Utah 25, Washington 22 -- Washington had slightly more passing yards, Utah had slightly more rushing yards. There was only one turnover for Washington and 0 for Utah.

How is that clearly the better team?


After reading your comments -- I was thinking maybe those games were something along the lines of the UM/Wisconsin game -- THIS is what clearly the better team looks like in a one score game:

Total Yards: UM 360 Wisconsin 159
1st downs: UM 21 Wisconsin 8
Passing Yards: UM 219 Wisconsin 88
Rushing yards: UM 141 Wisconin 71

UM also had almost a 12 minute advantage in time of possession and picked off 3 passes, yet the score says, it was a 1 score game, because UM turned it over in the red zone and was 0 for 3 on FG's (from 30, 39 and 40 yards )


I'm on record as saying -- Washington absolutely deserves to be in the CFP if they win out, but you have to know you are going to hear about it from other fans because of how poor the Pac-12 is this year and the fact you played what amounted to 3 scrimmages in your OOC.

 

[TheDayMan]

Arizona and Washington -- You went to Overtime, even though Arizona had 3 turnovers to only 1 for Washington. First downs were 24-23, total yards were 510-475, Washington averaged 6.9 ypc, Arizona averaged 7.2.

How is that clearly the better team?

Utah and Washington -- Total yards were basically the same 384-376, First downs were Utah 25, Washington 22 -- Washington had slightly more passing yards, Utah had slightly more rushing yards. There was only one turnover for Washington and 0 for Utah.

How is that clearly the better team?


After reading your comments -- I was thinking maybe those games were something along the lines of the UM/Wisconsin game -- THIS is what clearly the better team looks like in a one score game:

Total Yards: UM 360 Wisconsin 159
1st downs: UM 21 Wisconsin 8
Passing Yards: UM 219 Wisconsin 88
Rushing yards: UM 141 Wisconin 71

UM also had almost a 12 minute advantage in time of possession and picked off 3 passes, yet the score says, it was a 1 score game, because UM turned it over in the red zone and was 0 for 3 on FG's (from 30, 39 and 40 yards )


I'm on record as saying -- Washington absolutely deserves to be in the CFP if they win out, but you have to know you are going to hear about it from other fans because of how poor the Pac-12 is this year and the fact you played what amounted to 3 scrimmages in your OOC.

Because remember that whole 'stats doesn't tell the whole story' thing? Did you watch either game? Every one of Utah's 3 touchdowns came from a second chance from a dumb UW penalty (one being a questionable call) after being held on 3rd or 4th down.