All-Time Roster of Non-HOF Players

[ChiSoxFan]

SP- Billy Pierce

 

[soxfan1468927]

This would be the lineup, bench, and rotation according to the Hall of Stats.

C: Ted Simmons
1B: Rafael Palmeiro
2B: Lou Whitaker
SS: Bill Dahlen
3B: Graig Nettles
LF: Pete Rose
CF: Kenny Lofton
RF: Reggie Smith

Bench:
C: Joe Torre
1B/3B: Mark McGwire
2B/SS: Alan Trammell
OF: Dwight Evans
OF: Jim Edmonds

Rotation:
SP: Kevin Brown
SP: Rick Reuschel
SP: Luis Tiant
SP: David Cone
SP: Bret Saberhagen

 

[broncosmitty]

This would be the lineup, bench, and rotation according to the Hall of Stats.

C: Ted Simmons
1B: Rafael Palmeiro
2B: Lou Whitaker
SS: Bill Dahlen
3B: Graig Nettles
LF: Pete Rose
CF: Kenny Lofton
RF: Reggie Smith

Bench:
C: Joe Torre
1B/3B: Mark McGwire
2B/SS: Alan Trammell
OF: Dwight Evans
OF: Jim Edmonds

Rotation:
SP: Kevin Brown
SP: Rick Reuschel
SP: Luis Tiant
SP: David Cone
SP: Bret Saberhagen

What stat does Joe Jackson not measure up in?

 

[DragonfromTO]

What stat does Joe Jackson not measure up in?

Almost every counting stat.

 

[soxfan1468927]

What stat does Joe Jackson not measure up in?

Against Pete Rose? Longevity

 

[broncosmitty]

Id put Pete at third and ditch Nettles if we're going off counting stats.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Has Albert Belle been mentioned?

 

[TJL]

Has Albert Belle been mentioned?

Good call, dude had a 7 year span where he averaged about 45 HR's and 115 RBI's.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Good call, dude had a 7 year span where he averaged about 45 HR's and 115 RBI's.

Reputation as an all time douche bag, and looking at his career, probably the only thing that has kept him out

 

[TJL]

Reputation as an all time douche bag, and looking at his career, probably the only thing that has kept him out

lol, MR Freeze

He got that nickname because he liked the clubhouse to be under 60 degrees, a teammate in Cleveland turned up the thermostat and he went over to it, turned it back down to 59, then smashed the thermostat with a bat so no one could change it.

They also said that he used to throw the plates from the after game buffets into the showers at people.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Reputation as an all time douche bag, and looking at his career, probably the only thing that has kept him out

If you are making an all-time team, left field has to start with Pete Rose or Joe Jackson. So it's no surprise that Belle doesn't make it on these.

And his douche bag nature isn't the only thing keeping him out. He played just 10 full seasons, and he certainly was a top 10 hitter in 6 of them at least. But 6 years as a top 10 hitter while providing no value in the field or base paths, while not playing a premium position. I wouldn't vote for him, and I don't take into account douchebaggery.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

If the purpose is to field a team, shouldn't we factor in roster structure and rotation structure...

For example, I have a hard time saying the 5 SP should all be righties...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Never understood why palmeiro gets so much respect... I don't even think he is a top 20 1B of all time...

 

[soxfan1468927]

Never understood why palmeiro gets so much respect... I don't even think he is a top 20 1B of all time...

I think he's between 15-20, but who ahead of him is A) Not in the HOF and B) No longer on the ballot C)Not active. I agree on McGwire, but then who? Maybe Dick Allen or Keith Hernandez?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I think he's between 15-20, but who ahead of him is A) Not in the HOF and B) No longer on the ballot C)Not active. I agree on McGwire, but then who? Maybe Dick Allen or Keith Hernandez?

I like Boog powell, and Norm cash over him... anyday... Imo, the problem with career stats is that we forget the dominance of a player during their prime...

 

[soxfan1468927]

I like Boog powell, and Norm cash over him... anyday... Imo, the problem with career stats is that we forget the dominance of a player during their prime...

I like to compare peaks over career stats. Here are some stats (ALA stands for "above league average")

Palmeiro (1988-2002): 2307 games, 4.4 WAR per season, BA 9.7% ALA, OBP 10.9% ALA, SLG 25.4% ALA, OPS 18.9% ALA, 4 All-Star Games, 10 seasons with MVP votes

Cash (1960-1973): 1965 games, 3.7 WAR per season, BA 6.2% ALA, OBP 14.0% ALA, SLG 25.8% ALA, OPS 20.4% ALA, 4 All-Star Games, 6 seasons with MVP votes

Powell (1963-1975): 1769 games, 3.1 WAR per season, BA 7.1% ALA, OBP 14.0% ALA, SLG 25.7% ALA, OPS 20.1% ALA, 4 All-Star Games, 6 seasons with MVP votes

Seems like that's really close, and Palmeiro had the longer peak. No doubt Cash had the best individual season in 1961.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I like to compare peaks over career stats. Here are some stats (ALA stands for "above league average")

Palmeiro (1988-2002): 2307 games, 4.4 WAR per season, BA 9.7% ALA, OBP 10.9% ALA, SLG 25.4% ALA, OPS 18.9% ALA, 4 All-Star Games, 10 seasons with MVP votes

Cash (1960-1973): 1965 games, 3.7 WAR per season, BA 6.2% ALA, OBP 14.0% ALA, SLG 25.8% ALA, OPS 20.4% ALA, 4 All-Star Games, 6 seasons with MVP votes

Powell (1963-1975): 1769 games, 3.1 WAR per season, BA 7.1% ALA, OBP 14.0% ALA, SLG 25.7% ALA, OPS 20.1% ALA, 4 All-Star Games, 6 seasons with MVP votes

Seems like that's really close, and Palmeiro had the longer peak. No doubt Cash had the best individual season in 1961.

that is what made palmeiro so good... he was consistently very good... But he was very rarely great, especially for his era...
speaking of his era, I like Jason Giambi better...

Even when looking at players peaks, there is more to look at than treating the stats the same...

I will ask this question and it is purely hypothetical, and made up, not based on any player...

Player A has a longer peak with overall better numbers during his peak.
Player B has more top 10 offensive seasons in MLB, with more top 5 as well...

who was better?? Now I get that the question is too vague to make a good answer, but it brings up the question, how much should era be brought into account??

 

[DragonfromTO]

Id put Pete at third and ditch Nettles if we're going off counting stats.

Pete's got more than twice as many games in the outfield as he does at 3B. I know that almost half of those were in RF or CF, but for this exercise I think that LF is the right choice for him.

 

[soxfan1468927]

that is what made palmeiro so good... he was consistently very good... But he was very rarely great, especially for his era...
speaking of his era, I like Jason Giambi better...

Even when looking at players peaks, there is more to look at than treating the stats the same...

I will ask this question and it is purely hypothetical, and made up, not based on any player...

Player A has a longer peak with overall better numbers during his peak.
Player B has more top 10 offensive seasons in MLB, with more top 5 as well...

who was better?? Now I get that the question is too vague to make a good answer, but it brings up the question, how much should era be brought into account??

Well Palmeiro was top 10 in wRC+ 7 times, Cash 6 times, and Powell 5 times. Also Palmeiro was top 10 in WAR for 5 seasons, Cash 3, and Powell 2. I don't understand the second part, what do you mean by "treating the stats the same"?

In the scenario, I would more than likely take Player B, but I don't think this is one of those scenarios.

And I took era into account, that is why I have the stats as measured against the league average at the time. Being very good consistently is very valuable, especially when you are on the field every day. Palmeiro playing at a high level, and playing in at least 93% of his team's games every single season for 17 straight seasons is why I would definitely have him over Giambi.

 

[broncosmitty]

Pete's got more than twice as many games in the outfield as he does at 3B. I know that almost half of those were in RF or CF, but for this exercise I think that LF is the right choice for him.

I guess.

He played more first than anywhere. By nearly two seasons worth of games.