ALL THINGS SUH

[Microwahevo]

Wait a minute? I thought they were going to trade him? You mean we wasted 78,000 posts on nothing? Fuck me.

Mayhew has stated he isn't even thinking of trading him.

"I haven't really given that any thought," he said. "I anticipate we'll get something done. He has said that he wants to be here. I'd like him to be here. So that's my mindset right now."

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Atkins:136 comb tackles, 29 sacks, 6FF, 2Fum rec, 5 PD
Suh:186 comb tackles, 27.5 sacks, 2FF, 1fum rec, 12 PD, 1 int.

Has he really put up better numbers? I'd say they're pretty equal. Nothing really stands out and screams "he's better" based on their career totals. One leads in certain categories while the other leads in others.

They are pretty equal, until you take into consideration that Atkins was used situationally in his rookie year and wasn't a full time starter until year 2 (which is why he only had 16 tackles and 3 sacks as a rookie) and only played half a season in 2013. Remeber -- Atkins wasn't a blue chip draft pick. He was a 4th round pick by Cincy.

So in the last 3 seasons, where both were full time starters -- Suh has played 46 games, Atkins has played 41 (Suh missed two games from suspension, Atkins miss 7 games with a torn ACL). Atkins has 120 tackes, 26 sacks and 6 forced fumbles. Suh has 120 tackles, 17.5 sacks and 1 forced fumble.

This is why I mention Atkins so much, when talking about the extension for Suh. Over the last 3 years -- Atkins has been the most productive DT in the NFL.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

From a business perspective, you're worth what someone will pay. Market value is merely common ground for negotiations to begin.

Absolutely agree. Market value though, IMO, was pretty much set once Atkins re-signed for 5 years 55 million, making him the highest paid DT who isn't playing on their rookie contract (Suh and McCoy).

I TRULY hope the Lions can get a deal done with him. I do not want to see Suh playing for another team. All I am saying is -- I hope they don't sacrifice elsewhere by overpaying him. He is a tremendous player, but he isn't worth millions and millions more than the next highest paid player at his position.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Check me into a hospital stat, I reread my last post and it looked way too tpaulish.

 

[gandydancer]

Check me into a hospital stat, I reread my last post and it looked way too tpaulish.

How will you ever keep that prickish negative title? Spewing such words...

 

[jalopy]

Wait a minute? I thought they were going to trade him? You mean we wasted 78,000 posts on nothing? Fuck me.

I wouldn't consider it wasted. What I got out of it is that most fans feel the Lions are going to extend Suh but many believe the circumstances surrounding his contract were dire enough that the Lions should consider a trade.

 

[VulturesRule]

Wait a minute? I thought they were going to trade him? You mean we wasted 78,000 posts on nothing? Fuck me.

No waste.... consider the 78K just foreplay.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Wait a minute? I thought they were going to trade him? You mean we wasted 78,000 posts on nothing? Fuck me.

Come on man, where are the posts where anybody said the first option they favored was simply to trade him? Not one person said that. What was said by several, myself included, was that they favored a trade rather than paying him an outragous contract.

In fact, it was you on the Suh in blue and silver 4 eva thread that got the debate rolling when you said he would be the highest paid defensive player in the league. This was an excellent debate that went in many different directions. It had the salary cap, draft picks, compensation if traded, etc.

No one ever actually said the Lions were going to trade Suh. There was a good discussion on whether or not that was a good option if the alternative was to pay him as the highest paid defensive player in the league. While you may think he deserves that type of contract there are obviously a lot of other fans who dont agree. That certainly doesnt make it a wasted discussion.

Micro posted a statement by Mayhew.....
"I haven't really given that any thought," he said. "I anticipate we'll get something done. He has said that he wants to be here. I'd like him to be here. So that's my mindset right now."

Obviously someone posed the question to him about the possibility of trading Suh if they cant get a contract done, so its not like the idea is held solely by members of this board. And his answer isnt exactly one that unquestionably says that isnt even a remote consideration. He hasn't given it any thought and its not his mindset right now. That pretty much falls in line with exactly what was said here. Get a good and fair deal done and everyone wants him back. If its a demand for a contract making him the highest paid defensive player there is no way to know that Mayhew's mindset for right now might change.

This was a good thread. IMO it was one of the better ones we've ever had. Definitely not a waste for anybody no matter what side of the debate they were.

 

[Microwahevo]

Obviously someone posed the question to him about the possibility of trading Suh if they cant get a contract done, so its not like the idea is held solely by members of this board. And his answer isnt exactly one that unquestionably says that isnt even a remote consideration. He hasn't given it any thought and its not his mindset right now. That pretty much falls in line with exactly what was said here.

Oh I'm sure that question was asked. I was simply quoting a quote by the man himself. I honestly don't think he's looking at trading him, hence another quote where he feels there won't be a cap crunch regardless of whether they sign Suh or not.

These front office guys are privy to a lot of info and numbers we aren't. I'm sure they have a good idea of where they can spend.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

I honestly don't think he's looking at trading him, hence another quote where he feels there won't be a cap crunch regardless of whether they sign Suh or not.

I dont think he is either, at least not right now.

They havent had contract talks yet. If the Lions are thinking that going no higher than his current contract average at $12.5m/yr (which is aleady 20% higher than Atkins) and he's asking for $16.5m/yr that what Mayhew is thinking right now just might change.

There are other considerations here. There is a track record of the Lions holding their ground in some contract talks. They did not give in to what Avril wanted. Each side should find out pretty quickly in their talks just how entrenched each side is with what they are looking for. If its far enough apart and both sides are committed to those numbers Mayhew's hand might be forced to look at a trade option.

Do you really dare risk going into the season with him in that last year? Forget the cap, he says there isnt an issue without a new deal so we'll go with that. If they are far apart and you go into the season still hoping to get a new deal done you have the obvious risk that Suh just stops negoitiating and prepares to become a FA. If that happens your trade value just went to zero and the compensation you are getting for losing him is a third rd compensatory pick. This is going to get interesting if they dont actually get a deal done in the next few weeks because I dont think the Lions can dare go into the draft and not have him re-signed.

We havent talked about that at all. We've just assumed the Lions would basically pay whatever Suh wanted. That is by no means a guarantee that they will. They have to analyze their cap situation for the future as much as we the fans try to do and nobody on here has any idea what they are thinking there.

 

[RobBase]

Mayhew has stated he isn't even thinking of trading him.

"I haven't really given that any thought," he said. "I anticipate we'll get something done. He has said that he wants to be here. I'd like him to be here. So that's my mindset right now."

Shocking. I really thought Mayhew would be dumb enough to trade away the best player the Lions have had since #20.

Yes, I'm laying the sarcasm on mighty thick.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Shocking. I really thought Mayhew would be dumb enough to trade away the best player the Lions have had since #20.

Yes, I'm laying the sarcasm on mighty thick.

At least say the best defensive player. Calvin Johnson over the last three years alone has put up more receiving yards than anyone in the history of the game, for a 3 year span, as well as setting the single season record for receiving yards.

Suh is a tremendous talent, but Calvin is one of the best WRs ever.

 

[RobBase]

In fact, it was you on the Suh in blue and silver 4 eva thread that got the debate rolling when you said he would be the highest paid defensive player in the league. This was an excellent debate that went in many different directions. It had the salary cap, draft picks, compensation if traded, etc.

My bad. I wasn't trying to fuel a debate. I love Suh and thank the football Gods often that he is a Lion. I was just excited to hear he wanted to stay in the D. He's worth every penny of 16, 17 18 or whatever million it will be per year. End of discussion.

The real debate is can Mayhew draft like the Packers and Seahawks and surround their big names with talent found in round 2-7. They had a great draft last year, no reason to think Xayhew doesn't have another one.

It's good to be a Lions fan right now. I'm not stressing.

 

[RobBase]

At least say the best defensive player. Calvin Johnson over the last three years alone has put up more receiving yards than anyone in the history of the game, for a 3 year span, as well as setting the single season record for receiving yards.

Suh is a tremendous talent, but Calvin is one of the best WRs ever.

Yes Calvin is one of the best WR's ever but he was awesome when we were 0-16. Calvin is cool but he's no leader and no one else feeds off of him like they do off of Suh. I watched with my own two eyes ONE guy change this team's attitude and that was Suh. Not Stafford, not Calvin.

If we ever lost Suh the Lions would quickly shrink back to obscurity. It's a god damn blessing he even wants to be a Lion.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Yes Calvin is one of the best WR's ever but he was awesome when we were 0-16. Calvin is cool but he's no leader and no one else feeds off of him like they do off of Suh. I watched with my own two eyes ONE guy change this team's attitude and that was Suh. Not Stafford, not Calvin.

If we ever lost Suh the Lions would quickly shrink back to obscurity. It's a god damn blessing he even wants to be a Lion.

While Suh has been part of the team's turnaround (as has Stafford, as has Calvin), last year was the 1st year he took a leadership role. His first 3 years, he was the guy we talked about jumping ship as soon as his contract was up, as he would leave town as soon as the season was done and get in car accidents, enter cannonball run races, go on celebrity diving shows, etc.

2013 was the first year he was a leader on the team, which I'm sure came much easier for him as the veteran DE's were no longer on the team. I absolutely agree he changed the attitude of the defense, as a whole, with his style of play, since joining the team.

That being said -- I respect your opinion, but personally IMO, the only player on the Lions that is irreplaceable is Calvin Johnson.

 

[lionstop1]

You guys don't think Mayhew and company has sat down and actually looked at the cap situation? That would be pretty retarded. I think they know exactly what they have and can spend. The only thing they don't know is how much he will demand. Of course Mayhew expects him to return, especially if he already plans on spending whatever Suh wants. When asked a question like that, nobody is going to say that they don't expect said player to return or that they will trade them.

This topic is probably the main one that the Lions are discussing right now besides the combine and draft. Its their best defensive player.

 

[lionstop1]

Lol. A DT is getting credit for the Lions turn-around? Man, I love Suh but this is too much. Suh better than Megatron? Yeah right. Lions are nothing without CJ and he is the most feared offensive player in the league.

 

[RobBase]

Lol. A DT is getting credit for the Lions turn-around? Man, I love Suh but this is too much. Suh better than Megatron? Yeah right. Lions are nothing without CJ and he is the most feared offensive player in the league.

Ndamukong Suh of Detroit Lions is NFL's most feared player - ESPN

 

[RobBase]

Lol. A DT is getting credit for the Lions turn-around? Man, I love Suh but this is too much.

Calvin had 1300 yards and led the league w 12 TD's the year the Lions went 0-16.

In 2009 he failed to reach 1000 yards and had only 5 TD's.

In his first 2 years, he did nothing to make them competitive.

Wasn't until 2010 and Suh came along did the Lions even start to compete every week (won 6 games his rookie year).

One year later the Lions were in the playoffs and they've been competitive in every game since he has been a Lion.

Suh > Calvin by a country mile.

 

[lionstop1]

This is a team sport man. How can you compare the team when CJ entered to the team Suh came into? Those are two very different teams. What about this year? Why didn't Suh lead the team to the playoffs? Lol