ALL THINGS SUH

[gvsulaker82]

Same ol Lions? When is the last time they had a player as dominant as CJ? Barry? ... Suh, Porcher? ... Staff, nobody. All three of these dudes will be going into their primes at the same time. We are going to have a playoff team for a long time. Just needed some coaching, watch.

Agree, and if they trade suh they will be the same ol lions.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Easier said than done. With 3 players taking up so much of the overall cap space, you need every draft pick to not only start, but to be very good starters. Highly improbable. If Detroit elects to keep all three, they have very little chance of being anything more than a .500 team.
One of them must go and Stafford's contract has the freshest ink which means he stays. CJ is the best receiver in the league, maybe ever. Suh is a great player but has had problems, both on the field and (apparently) in the locker room.

They hit quite a few last year, and if they hit even three on defense this year they could seriously contend. The lions are a few defenders and one good stafford season away from being a very scary team.

 

[jalopy]

The Lions are just under the cap right now and need a TE, (2) WR's, OLB (Palmer is fine as a back-up, CB, and a safety. You expect them to address those needs solely from teh draft?

Stafford needs help to have a good season. He isn't Manning or Brady where he can make an average player great.

 

[lionstop1]

Sooo, going to the playoffs or SB rest soley on Suh? Would anyone here take Oaklands fifth pick?
Would any team in the league be willing to pay Suh?

 

[jalopy]

I feel this thread has turned into a pro-Suh vs anti-Suh when that should hardly be the case. At issue is whether or not the Lions should cave into overpaying him simply because he has salary cap leverage against the team. I don't think anyone is taking the side that he isn't a top 5 DT.

 

[Valion78]

Hypothetically, if the Lions traded Suh what sort of compensation would we be looking at?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Agree, and if they trade suh they will be the same ol lions.

gvsu,

what do you think should be the ceiling for the contract extension for Suh that the Lions should offer? remember, whatever he signs the contract for -- you add 2 million a year to the cap hit from the money they have rolled over.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Curiousity has gotten the better of me, especially after seeing some of the hypothetical drafts other posters have put together using the firstpick.com site. So, in keeping with the theme of trading Suh, I ask you under the following scenario is the TEAM better off.

Suh is traded to the Jags for the #3 pick. That is all the compensation the Lions get. With the #3 pick they select Clowney. Ansah on one side, Clowney on the other with Devin Taylor as the rotational guy.

Now take a look at this hypothetical draft.......

Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 16 (BALT): Darqueze Dennard, CB, Michigan State (A)
Round 2 Pick 12 (STL): Kyle Van Noy, OLB, Brigham Young (A-)
Round 2 Pick 13: Allen Robinson, WR, Penn State (A-)
Round 2 Pick 15 (BALT): David Yankey, OG, Stanford (A-)
Round 3 Pick 12: Travis Swanson, C, Arkansas (A)
Round 4 Pick 16 (MIA): Jimmie Ward, SS, Northern Illinois (A)
Round 5 Pick 15 (MIA): Marion Grice, RB, Arizona State (A)
Round 6 Pick 13: Antone Exum, CB, Virginia Tech (A)
Round 7 Pick 12: Chris Boswell, K, Rice (A)

This doesn't take anything at all into account for acquiring the #3 pick from the Jags and while this may be a dream draft scenario there certainly are realistic elements that come with it.

Think about what you could do here if only a few of the pieces above fell into place. Jason Jones becomes expendable ($2m in cap savings). With Yankey and Swanson you certainly have a quality replacement for Sims who if released would save the team $2.575m and while many of you think he is some sort of great player I would point out that he is an UFA after this year and the Lions are highly unlikely to retain him at what his cost would be. I forgot to mention that simply trading Suh also saved $3m in caps space. In all we saved $7.575m against the cap.

Now think about how you could apply that savings. You could easily sign another high quality WR, the best free agent kicker, and still have some room left over. How about to get a really good DT to fill the gap left by Suh's departure?

Next year you go into the season with $20m in cap space freed up by the Suh trade alone. You could then get out of the Houston contract and save several million and your salary cap death is over with.

So I ask you......did the Lions TEAM get better if this scenario plays out even close to what I've proposed. IMO they just got immensely better and could be a contender this year, but they absolutely would be in 2015 when they have $ to spend to fill any remaining holes. All of this comes together by trading Suh and a smart draft.

 

[gandydancer]

So I ask you......did the Lions TEAM get better if this scenario plays out even close to what I've proposed. IMO they just got immensely better and could be a contender this year, but they absolutely would be in 2015 when they have $ to spend to fill any remaining holes. All of this comes together by trading Suh and a smart draft.

Yes, I would agree with this scenario in a perfect world. SCARY part is trusting to have back to back smart drafts. Surprised you would think the clown show could either??

Only reason I agree with it is Clowney's presence would replace Suh's on DL. Not sure if the work ethic is same though.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Suh is traded to the Jags for the #3 pick. That is all the compensation the Lions get. With the #3 pick they select Clowney

Draft picks are like GOLD in today's NFL. I'm not sure Detroit would be able to get close to the value of Suh, because of his contract situation. He is under contract for 2 more years, but 2015 is a player option, I believe, so Suh can void the contract and enter FA.

If Detroit could trade Suh for the #3 pick -- I would do so in a heartbeat.

 

[RobBase]

If the Lions put Suh on the trade block, you'd have 31 other teams lining up to throw multiple 1st round picks and players at the Lions.

• AP NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year (2010)
• NFL Alumni Defensive Lineman of the Year (2010)
• Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Year (2010)
• Sporting News Rookie of the Year (2010)
• Pro Football Weekly Rookie of the Year (2010)
• PFWA Rookie of the Year (2010)
• 3× Pro Bowl (2010, 2012, 2013)
• 3× First-team All-Pro (2010, 2011, 2013)
• Second-team All-Pro (2012)
• Sporting News First-team All-Pro (2011)

and you guys want to trade him for the 3rd pick in an unproven rookie draft.


Only Lions fans wait 50 years for the best players they've ever had then want to trade them away.


Unbelievable.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

If the Lions put Suh on the trade block, you'd have 31 other teams lining up to throw multiple 1st round picks and players at the Lions.

If Suh had just finished his 2010 season and was playing under a new rookie contract deal, which would have been 5 years 21 million dollars -- I agree, teams would be lining up to trade the Lions for Suh and offering multiple picks and/or players to get him.

In Suh's current situation, where he is owed 22.4 million by Detroit for 2014 (19 million of which Detroit has to eat whether they trade him or not) and a voidable year in 2015, which is a guarantee Suh will void that deal, as it is only a base salary of 3.5 million -- No team is going to line up and offer multiple 1st round picks and/or players.

Basically, if Detroit were to trade Suh -- the team who would get him would have him for one year and he would hit FA. Say they traded him to Jacksonville. If Suh doesn't want to play in Jacksonville after 2014, he would just void the final year and hit FA. No team would ever franchise tag Suh, as it is something like a 20% raise from the prior year, or roughly 26 million dollars to franchise Suh (not 100% positive on this, but that is how I understood it when I read it).

What team in the NFL is going to trade away multiple 1st round picks for one year of service, when he can go wherever he pleases in 2015?

This is why Suh has the Lions by the balls right now. If they don't extend him this year -- they have to work with the ridiculously high cap hit of 22.4 million this year. If they don't extend him -- Suh voids the last year of his contract and goes to the highest bidder in 2015. If they trade him -- They still eat over 19 million on their cap and because he can void the last year of his deal -- you will not get fair market value for him, as the team will only be getting him for one year.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

If the Lions put Suh on the trade block, you'd have 31 other teams lining up to throw multiple 1st round picks and players at the Lions.

• AP NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year (2010)
• NFL Alumni Defensive Lineman of the Year (2010)
• Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Year (2010)
• Sporting News Rookie of the Year (2010)
• Pro Football Weekly Rookie of the Year (2010)
• PFWA Rookie of the Year (2010)
• 3× Pro Bowl (2010, 2012, 2013)
• 3× First-team All-Pro (2010, 2011, 2013)
• Second-team All-Pro (2012)
• Sporting News First-team All-Pro (2011)

and you guys want to trade him for the 3rd pick in an unproven rookie draft.


Only Lions fans wait 50 years for the best players they've ever had then want to trade them away.


Unbelievable.

So that's a vote that you dont think the Lions get better from that scenario?

And nobody is truly wanting to trade him for the sake of trading him. It's a topic for discussion because paying him such an astronomical premium (50%+) to the next All-Pro DT's contract is simply not realistic without absolutely hurting the team in the long run.

We have 3 of the top 25 NFL contracts on the payroll right now. The two longer term deals already in place are just now starting to really ramp up in the cap hits they carry. Now we might add to that a huge increase in the third contract? It just cant happen and think the Lions are going to make it to that next level.

If you pay that deal to keep one great player the team will HAVE to unload multiple very solid players when its time for them to get their second contracts. There wont be the money to pay them. Look at Pettigrew right now. How about Fairley in the next year? Levy has two years remaining. Soon there after will be guys like Reiff and Ansah. Where is that $ going to come from?

The Seahawks signed two impact FA's last offseason (Bennett and Avril) and that put them over the top and won the SB. They also traded to get Harvin and his big contract. He showed his value in the SB and they will be even better this year as a result with him healthy. We have no $ at all to do anything like that and if we pay Suh $16m/yr we arent going to have any money for many years that follow.

As a result talking about trading Suh should be a very realistic topic that warrents consideration. The blame falls on Mayhew and Lewand for that fact. They created this mess and now they stand of the verge of potentially making it worse? That's what unbelievable to me.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

If Suh had just finished his 2010 season and was playing under a new rookie contract deal, which would have been 5 years 21 million dollars -- I agree, teams would be lining up to trade the Lions for Suh and offering multiple picks and/or players to get him.

In Suh's current situation, where he is owed 22.4 million by Detroit for 2014 (19 million of which Detroit has to eat whether they trade him or not) and a voidable year in 2015, which is a guarantee Suh will void that deal, as it is only a base salary of 3.5 million -- No team is going to line up and offer multiple 1st round picks and/or players.

Basically, if Detroit were to trade Suh -- the team who would get him would have him for one year and he would hit FA. Say they traded him to Jacksonville. If Suh doesn't want to play in Jacksonville after 2014, he would just void the final year and hit FA. No team would ever franchise tag Suh, as it is something like a 20% raise from the prior year, or roughly 26 million dollars to franchise Suh (not 100% positive on this, but that is how I understood it when I read it).

What team in the NFL is going to trade away multiple 1st round picks for one year of service, when he can go wherever he pleases in 2015?

This is why Suh has the Lions by the balls right now. If they don't extend him this year -- they have to work with the ridiculously high cap hit of 22.4 million this year. If they don't extend him -- Suh voids the last year of his contract and goes to the highest bidder in 2015. If they trade him -- They still eat over 19 million on their cap and because he can void the last year of his deal -- you will not get fair market value for him, as the team will only be getting him for one year.

The trade would not be a surprise to Suh or his agent because it would happen only with a new contract already agreed upon.

 

[RobBase]

That would never happen. If anyone trade for him they'd only do so if he signed a long term extension first.

Because you guys perceive this contract to be the kiss of death, somehow now this amazing force of a player is now reduced to the worth of a simple draft pick. Great players get paid. Lions players are no different.

This team was 0-16 with everyone's favorite WR before Suh got here. The lack of loyalty to the best player we have ever had is disturbing.

 

[RobBase]

The trade would not be a surprise to Suh or his agent because it would happen only with a new contract already agreed upon.

That's what I get for blabbering. Beat me to it.

 

[RobBase]

So that's a vote that you dont think the Lions get better from that scenario?

And nobody is truly wanting to trade him for the sake of trading him. It's a topic for discussion because paying him such an astronomical premium (50%+) to the next All-Pro DT's contract is simply not realistic without absolutely hurting the team in the long run.

LOL

This fucking team has won 1 playoff game in 50 years and just went 0-16 the year before this guy got here.

What hurting in the long run!!????

we gonna go 0-18 when Goodell extends the season??

 

[RobBase]

The Seahawks...

The Seahawks are about to drop a contract on Russell Wilson bigger than what Stafford makes and bigger than what Suh will get.

They should probably just trade him now.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Draft picks are like GOLD in today's NFL. I'm not sure Detroit would be able to get close to the value of Suh, because of his contract situation. He is under contract for 2 more years, but 2015 is a player option, I believe, so Suh can void the contract and enter FA.

If Detroit could trade Suh for the #3 pick -- I would do so in a heartbeat.

Really? #3 doesn't ensure you're going to get Clowney so I have to assume you really like someone else also.

I wouldn't do it for #3 alone...#3 + a 4th rounder...now I'm listening...#3 + a 3rd rounder...deal.

Dominant interior DL are very few and far between.

 

[jalopy]

The Seahawks are about to drop a contract on Russell Wilson bigger than what Stafford makes and bigger than what Suh will get.

They should probably just trade him now.

Source?? Last I heard they were going to address RW's contract next offseason. And, yes, I would trade Wilson before I gave him the amount of money that Stafford is making.