Alec Baldwin killed crew member Halyna Hutchins on set of Rust

[calsnowskier]

I read 18 months somewhere.

Seems light. But assuming it was truly a mistake, it is hard to throw the book too hard at the guy. As despicable as he may be as a human.

However, I assume this would open him up to some pretty severe civil lawsuits from the family.

 

[batchaps4me]

Seems light. But assuming it was truly a mistake, it is hard to throw the book too hard at the guy. As despicable as he may be as a human.

However, I assume this would open him up to some pretty severe civil lawsuits from the family.

I would expect him to be held to the same standard as anyone else. The thing that pisses me off the most is the idiots that want to excuse him because he was told the gun was empty, like that absolves the person pulling the trigger of all responsibility of verifying it as empty before aiming and pulling the trigger of a firearm.

 

[tabascojet]

I would expect him to be held to the same standard as anyone else. The thing that pisses me off the most is the idiots that want to excuse him because he was told the gun was empty, like that absolves the person pulling the trigger of all responsibility of verifying it as empty before aiming and pulling the trigger of a firearm.

Isn't he still holding on to not pulling the trigger?

 

[batchaps4me]

Isn't he still holding on to not pulling the trigger?

Yes, but the FBI debunked him on that claim. That revolver will not fire unless the trigger is pulled according to the experts.

 

[calsnowskier]

I would expect him to be held to the same standard as anyone else. The thing that pisses me off the most is the idiots that want to excuse him because he was told the gun was empty, like that absolves the person pulling the trigger of all responsibility of verifying it as empty before aiming and pulling the trigger of a firearm.

To be fair, whoever handed him the weapon (I assume this person was part of the props department and at least acting in the capacity of a quartermaster) should face charges as well. While reality tells us that Baldwin should have confirmed himself it was unloaded, he doesn’t claim to know guns. The person who handed him the gun SHOULD know guns.

The problem comes in the fact that Baldwin was one of the bosses on the set AND he pulled the trigger. Legal shit SHOULD roll uphill, and he was perched at the top of that hill.

 

[batchaps4me]

To be fair, whoever handed him the weapon (I assume this person was part of the props department and at least acting in the capacity of a quartermaster) should face charges as well.

Both should face the same charges ... they are IIRC ... along with the person that handed the gun to Alec and proclaimed it empty. They each had the same responsibility for verifying it empty and therefore the same culpability.

While reality tells us that Baldwin should have confirmed himself it was unloaded, he doesn’t claim to know guns. The person who handed him the gun SHOULD know guns.

It does not matter that he claims not to know guns. In fact that adds to his guilt since he was aiming it and pulling the trigger. There is no legal basis for saying otherwise. It is akin to a drunk driver claim he doesn't know about alcohol and/or cars. If you are operating any piece of equipment, the onus is on you for operating that equipment safely. On top of that, he has been in plenty of scenes where he fires guns to "know guns" and their safety rules.

The problem comes in the fact that Baldwin was one of the bosses on the set AND he pulled the trigger. Legal shit SHOULD roll uphill, and he was perched at the top of that hill.

That is not a problem. In fact it opens him up to convictions on different charging language in the statute.

 

[Debbie Does]

Yes, but the FBI debunked him on that claim. That revolver will not fire unless the trigger is pulled according to the experts.

Some years ago I lived near an airport. A rich guy was attending a political/social function, and when it ended his party went to the airport, and boarded his private jet. They never achieved altitude, and crashed killing all aboard.

The crash was determined to have been caused by pilot error, because the cockpit crew had not released the "gust lock" lever which protects the control surfaces when the plane is parked, and they had not gone through the standard check to see that the control surfaces were actually capable of moving. So, the plane accelerated down the runway but could not lift off because the elevators on the tail remained disabled.

It was later revealed that a "safety feature" of the plane was supposed to inhibit throttle advancement if the gust lock lever is set. Guess what. In this multi-miliion dollar plane, that feature did not work, leading to death and loss of the aircraft. So, when the gun manufacturer says the gun won't fire unless the trigger is pulled, please forgive me for a bit of skepticism.

 

[batchaps4me]

So, when the gun manufacturer says the gun won't fire unless the trigger is pulled, please forgive me for a bit of skepticism.

The gun manufacturer said no such thing about this gun. The FBI tested it and said this particular gun was not defective and would only fire when the trigger was pulled. Now, when the NTSA made their findings, was anyone found responsible?

 

[Wazmankg]

I would expect him to be held to the same standard as anyone else. The thing that pisses me off the most is the idiots that want to excuse him because he was told the gun was empty, like that absolves the person pulling the trigger of all responsibility of verifying it as empty before aiming and pulling the trigger of a firearm.

The venue and circumstances matter. I'll be surprised if he's convicted.

 

[R.J. MacReady]

The rust Armorer that Baldwin hired after firing the union crew who complained about site safety is just 25 years old.
Who hires a kid to be the set Armorer?

They also forced her to be the Prop Master on the set ...the rumor is she was struggling to do both jobs.

I believe it's also true that she was not even in the Church when the shooting happened.

 

[calsnowskier]

The rust Armorer that Baldwin hired after firing the union crew who complained about site safety is just 25 years old.
Who hires a kid to be the set Armorer?

They also forced her to be the Prop Master on the set ...the rumor is she was struggling to do both jobs.

I believe it's also true that she was not even in the Church when the shooting happened.

I read somewhere that she was specifically not allowed to put in the hours needed to effectively complete her armorer duties, because of her propmaster duties.

imho, she is culpable, but she is down the list of culpability.

1) Producers (including Baldwin, and probably mainly Baldwin since he was on site) - For creating an unsafe atmosphere; allowing live shooting on a set that had prop guns; allowing live ammo and prop ammo to mingle together; limiting the armorers hours to appropriately do her job.

2) Armorer - Allowing live shooting on a set that had prop guns; allowing live ammo and prop ammo to mingle together; if you are unable to perform your duties due to lack of time, either quit that aspect of your job, or halt production (not sure what she can/cannot do in that regard).

3) Baldwin (actor) - He pulled the trigger, while not filming, after not assuring the safety of the weapon


The fact that Baldwin fits into 2 of these categories is bad news for him. The armorer is a kid, and was completely set up for failure, but when you accept a job, it is your responsibility to make sure you can complete it. If your employers prevent you from doing it, or if you are not capable from a skills POV, you need to resign or face the consequences.

 

[batchaps4me]

The venue and circumstances matter. I'll be surprised if he's convicted.

IMHO he pleas out and gets zero jail time ... if his ego can allow it. If it goes to trial, he will be convicted.

 

[Wazmankg]

The rust Armorer that Baldwin hired after firing the union crew who complained about site safety is just 25 years old.
Who hires a kid to be the set Armorer?

They also forced her to be the Prop Master on the set ...the rumor is she was struggling to do both jobs.

I believe it's also true that she was not even in the Church when the shooting happened.

I love how a 25 YO all of the sudden becomes "a kid" when they screw up and we disapprove of the person who hired them. How hard should it be to insure the guns under her control aren't loaded with live ammo?

 

[Cyder]

The venue and circumstances matter. I'll be surprised if he's convicted.

I can't see 12 people agreeing on this. The guy is an actor and was handed the gun by a so called professional whose job is specifically to make sure this doesn't happen.

 

[Wazmankg]

IMHO he pleas out and gets zero jail time ... if his ego can allow it. If it goes to trial, he will be convicted.

The only way I see him convicted is by boss/association if there's evidence he somehow prevented her from doing her job effectively.

 

[Wazmankg]

I can't see 12 people agreeing on this. The guy is an actor and was handed the gun by a so called professional whose job is specifically to make sure this doesn't happen.

Yea.. and I have no love for Baldwin just because he's a lefty. By most accounts the guy is a prick. But this wasn't just a case where some buddy handed him a gun and said "don't worry.. it's not loaded" so he grabbed it and shot someone.

 

[Coily1]

I read somewhere that she was specifically not allowed to put in the hours needed to effectively complete her armorer duties, because of her propmaster duties.

imho, she is culpable, but she is down the list of culpability.

1) Producers (including Baldwin, and probably mainly Baldwin since he was on site) - For creating an unsafe atmosphere; allowing live shooting on a set that had prop guns; allowing live ammo and prop ammo to mingle together; limiting the armorers hours to appropriately do her job.

2) Armorer - Allowing live shooting on a set that had prop guns; allowing live ammo and prop ammo to mingle together; if you are unable to perform your duties due to lack of time, either quit that aspect of your job, or halt production (not sure what she can/cannot do in that regard).

3) Baldwin (actor) - He pulled the trigger, while not filming, after not assuring the safety of the weapon


The fact that Baldwin fits into 2 of these categories is bad news for him. The armorer is a kid, and was completely set up for failure, but when you accept a job, it is your responsibility to make sure you can complete it. If your employers prevent you from doing it, or if you are not capable from a skills POV, you need to resign or face the consequences.

She'll fry. It's basic safety on a film set to never, ever have live ammunition near your "prop" guns. She was a trigger-happy bitch, who enjoyed shooting cans in the desert during down time, and who was only hired because her father was a respected industry guy and because the film was being run on a shoestring budget.

But Baldwin will be convicted of something. There's no profession in the world that allows you to hold a critically dangerous item and be indemnified about reckless use of it, 100%. The prosecutor could haul dozens of professional actors on the stand who have handled firearms for filming and have them say at length how the weapons were checked or never aimed at people.

 

[Cyder]

Yea.. and I have no love for Baldwin just because he's a lefty. By most accounts the guy is a prick. But this wasn't just a case where some buddy handed him a gun and said "don't worry.. it's not loaded" so he grabbed it and shot someone.

I'm not a fan of his but I did like his Trump impression. In NYC his reputation as a prick is well known.

Maybe there should be some kind of mandatory training for any actor that handles guns of any kind. There have been actors killed by blanks (Brandon Lee, John Eric Hexum) over the years so maybe the very basics in safety should be covered.

 

[Pure Steel]

I'm not a fan of his but I did like his Trump impression. In NYC his reputation as a prick is well known.

Maybe there should be some kind of mandatory training for any actor that handles guns of any kind. There have been actors killed by blanks (Brandon Lee, John Eric Hexum) over the years so maybe the very basics in safety should be covered.

He was great in Team America also......

 

[Wazmankg]

I'm not a fan of his but I did like his Trump impression. In NYC his reputation as a prick is well known.

Maybe there should be some kind of mandatory training for any actor that handles guns of any kind. There have been actors killed by blanks (Brandon Lee, John Eric Hexum) over the years so maybe the very basics in safety should be covered.

His scene in Glengarry Glen Ross is an all-time classic in a role that he was born to play.. and he was very funny in 30 Rock too.. He's a talented actor. I'd think with advances in CGI there should be a way to do that without putting lives in danger.