Alabama's Da'shawn hand arrested for DUI

[batchaps4me]

And I've been on record before saying Saban is the GOAT of college football coaching. If he doesn't suspend him, which I don't think he will, then so be it. Do I agree with it? Not exactly, but it's his job and he has to do what he thinks is right.

I think that considering NFL players get released/suspended for DUIs, it should be about the same in college football but it's left up to each coach so we will see.

Suspensions for getting into trouble was always my default position until I saw an interview with Coach Saban a few years back. As was said earlier, Coach Saban's position was that suspension really did not change most players' behavior in a positive way, especially on a first offence. There will be punishment, but that is not the end goal. The end goal is to find a way to modify the behavior so that the player will make better choices throughout his life.

From that moment on I have never criticized a coach for internal punishment instead of suspension. I have much respect for Coach Saban. As an Auburn fan I must now go shower ... in acid.

 

[jwolt92]

Yes Jimbo hasn't lost a season opener at Florida State either

something has to give, should be exciting

I actually didn't even realize that. One thing I do know is that the team usually comes out flat in the first game in the first half: see Ole Miss game last year. Can't do that against Bama and hope to go off in the 2nd half

 

[BoiseStateFan27]

I actually didn't even realize that. One thing I do know is that the team usually comes out flat in the first game in the first half: see Ole Miss game last year. Can't do that against Bama and hope to go off in the 2nd half

Yes that part is very true, only an absolutely loaded Clemson team can have any hopes of doing that.

 

[socaljim242]

Suspensions for getting into trouble was always my default position until I saw an interview with Coach Saban a few years back. As was said earlier, Coach Saban's position was that suspension really did not change most players' behavior in a positive way, especially on a first offence. There will be punishment, but that is not the end goal. The end goal is to find a way to modify the behavior so that the player will make better choices throughout his life.

From that moment on I have never criticized a coach for internal punishment instead of suspension. I have much respect for Coach Saban. As an Auburn fan I must now go shower ... in acid.

Look up how many Alabama players have been in trouble with alcohol, weapons, assault, drugs in the past ten years and tell me it's working. All these players have been playing football since they were little kids. Having them run more , do stairs or what ever they have them do isn't punishment. It's conditioning disguised as punishment. Of course saban is against suspensions, he's got one of the teams who always has players fuck up like this. Doing what the coach and the player doesn't want (missed playing time) is how to get to these players. Anyone whos played sports or who has kids who played sports knows most could care less what you give them or take away as long as they can still play. When you have them sit and watch a game that's when it hits them. Obviously you do it to fit the crime. Even a half in the first game is something maybe the whole game if he wasn't supposed to be drinking t all. If it's domestic violence then it should be more or they learn that they can get away with it because they play football.

 

[batchaps4me]

Look up how many Alabama players have been in trouble with alcohol, weapons, assault, drugs in the past ten years and tell me it's working. All these players have been playing football since they were little kids. Having them run more , do stairs or what ever they have them do isn't punishment. It's conditioning disguised as punishment. Of course saban is against suspensions, he's got one of the teams who always has players fuck up like this. Doing what the coach and the player doesn't want (missed playing time) is how to get to these players. Anyone whos played sports or who has kids who played sports knows most could care less what you give them or take away as long as they can still play. When you have them sit and watch a game that's when it hits them. Obviously you do it to fit the crime. Even a half in the first game is something maybe the whole game if he wasn't supposed to be drinking t all. If it's domestic violence then it should be more or they learn that they can get away with it because they play football.

University of Alabama
The best data I could fins showed that from 2011-present Alabama has had 27 arrests from marijuana possession to gun charges. That is 27 too many, cut and dried. I have no idea what the conviction/plead rate is nor do I much care.

But several of the players arrested have gone on to NFL careers so there has to be some good results from his methods. Of all of the teams in all sports of the NCAA, Alabama football would probably be the least hurt on the field by suspending players. This is why I took what Coach Saban said to heart.

When I was in boot camp in Great Lakes, IL there was a saying painted on the wall in one building that basically says that discipline is not punishment, but is the state of mind that allows one to overcome adversity and achieve greatness. We have to punish but more importantly we need to instill discipline.

 

[socaljim242]

University of Alabama
The best data I could fins showed that from 2011-present Alabama has had 27 arrests from marijuana possession to gun charges. That is 27 too many, cut and dried. I have no idea what the conviction/plead rate is nor do I much care.

But several of the players arrested have gone on to NFL careers so there has to be some good results from his methods. Of all of the teams in all sports of the NCAA, Alabama football would probably be the least hurt on the field by suspending players. This is why I took what Coach Saban said to heart.

When I was in boot camp in Great Lakes, IL there was a saying painted on the wall in one building that basically says that discipline is not punishment, but is the state of mind that allows one to overcome adversity and achieve greatness. We have to punish but more importantly we need to instill discipline.

No one said they weren't good football players. Heck they are all 4-5* players but 27 in six years and you think his method is working? It's working for him for sure because he doesn't take away playing time.

 

[batchaps4me]

No one said they weren't good football players. Heck they are all 4-5* players but 27 in six years and you think his method is working? It's working for him for sure because he doesn't take away playing time.

It is hard for me to say if it is working or not because I have not met the players and seen the effect. What I am saying is that Coach Saban could have benched any of the players arrested with minimum on field effect because of the quality depth he has. To find out if it is working you would have to look individually at each person and see the behavior of the individual before and after the arrest. From that link, only two players were arrested more than once were Brent Calloway and Eddie Williams. Both were dismissed from the team and I am sure one was a 5 star if not both.

if you are judging by the total number of players arrested then yes Alabama under Coach Saban has not done well. If you are judging Coach Saban's record of preventing repeat offenders then you have to give him his due. As an old assed grandfather, I am more concerned with the latter.

 

[socaljim242]

It is hard for me to say if it is working or not because I have not met the players and seen the effect. What I am saying is that Coach Saban could have benched any of the players arrested with minimum on field effect because of the quality depth he has. To find out if it is working you would have to look individually at each person and see the behavior of the individual before and after the arrest. From that link, only two players were arrested more than once were Brent Calloway and Eddie Williams. Both were dismissed from the team and I am sure one was a 5 star if not both.

if you are judging by the total number of players arrested then yes Alabama under Coach Saban has not done well. If you are judging Coach Saban's record of preventing repeat offenders then you have to give him his due. As an old assed grandfather, I am more concerned with the latter.

Part of punishment is deterrent. It's supposed to make others stop and think and not do the same. If you have 27 players in that position in six years that tells you it hasn't been much of a deterrent.

 

[batchaps4me]

Part of punishment is deterrent. It's supposed to make others stop and think and not do the same. If you have 27 players in that position in six years that tells you it hasn't been much of a deterrent.

At the same time I have seen good solid families raise 5 kids and 4 of them turn out fine while the fifth one is in prison or a druggie. There is very little a parent or coach can do to prevent young adults from making stupid decisions. I would say that all coaches could do a better job screening recruits but at some point you have little idea how a teen will act away from home for the first time. And at some point you have to give a teen with a rough upbringing a chance in life.

 

[socaljim242]

At the same time I have seen good solid families raise 5 kids and 4 of them turn out fine while the fifth one is in prison or a druggie. There is very little a parent or coach can do to prevent young adults from making stupid decisions. I would say that all coaches could do a better job screening recruits but at some point you have little idea how a teen will act away from home for the first time. And at some point you have to give a teen with a rough upbringing a chance in life.

Well if you have four kids and the oldest gets in trouble and the others don;t see that they got punished that much that's just showing the younger ones how to act. saying they might do the same anyway isn;t a reason to not punish.

 

[batchaps4me]

I am not saying "don't punish". I am saying that a lack of repeat violations is the mark of effectiveness. If you have one set punishment then you are not going to be that effective, IMHO. Deal with the person as much as you deal with the violation.

 

[socaljim242]

I am not saying "don't punish". I am saying that a lack of repeat violations is the mark of effectiveness. If you have one set punishment then you are not going to be that effective, IMHO. Deal with the person as much as you deal with the violation.

27 players in six seasons is a lack of repeat? LOL.

 

[batchaps4me]

27 players in six seasons is a lack of repeat? LOL.

For all but two individuals, yes.

 

[socaljim242]

For all but two individuals, yes.

So to you it doesnt matter how many players on a team get in trouble with drugs , weapons, DUis and domestic abuse just that most did it or got caught once? The fact that 27 of them got in trouble is ok? LOL.
You realize they are only there four years some only three and some get in trouble in their Jr or Sr years. Not getting popped a second time isn;t some sort of accomplishment. Not having 27 players arrested is an accomplishment.

 

[batchaps4me]

So to you it doesnt matter how many players on a team get in trouble with drugs , weapons, DUis and domestic abuse just that most did it or got caught once? The fact that 27 of them got in trouble is ok? LOL.
You realize they are only there four years some only three and some get in trouble in their Jr or Sr years. Not getting popped a second time isn;t some sort of accomplishment. Not having 27 players arrested is an accomplishment.

Do you think that Coach Saban's expectations and discipline regime is responsible for the total number of arrests? I do not. I have to go for a bit, but will pick this up later.

 

[WizardHawk]

The courts should be the only recourse for handling violations of crime?

This is the real world. Pretty much all of us that aren't self employed face potentials for further punishment outside of the courts. I would have my license revoked and lose working in my industry if I were to be convicted of any felony and some violent misdemeanors. I know people that would be suspended and/or fired for violations of drug and alcohol policies, some of which fall outside of what is even illegal.

College football players are privileged. They are handed fame and a free college education in exchange for the use of their talents and their image. You're damned right the institutions have a responsibility to hold them to the very highest standard of public decency and accountability. Above and beyond that of the rest of the general student body. If you can't handle being held to that standard then don't play college football at that level. Go play in DIII where no one will ever hear your name or read about your DUI's or other crimes in the news.

 

[socaljim242]

Do you think that Coach Saban's expectations and discipline regime is responsible for the total number of arrests? I do not. I have to go for a bit, but will pick this up later.

I think the fact that if you get in trouble with the law at Alabama you don't have to worry about losing playing time. That probably leads to the amount of players who get in trouble. It's just common sense.

 

[WizardHawk]

I think the fact that if you get in trouble with the law at Alabama you don't have to worry about losing playing time. That probably leads to the amount of players who get in trouble. It's just common sense.

Or when they had two players dead to rights on a weapons related crime and dismissed the charges because they didn't grow up with air conditioning.

We are told the law should entirely handle it and there should be zero further actions by the school or team and we already have examples here, and other schools, of what appears to be special treatment for athletes in that legal system that should be the final word.

It's absurd.

 

[BTHOtu]

I'm a couple days late but

 

[4down20]

Look up how many Alabama players have been in trouble with alcohol, weapons, assault, drugs in the past ten years and tell me it's working. All these players have been playing football since they were little kids. Having them run more , do stairs or what ever they have them do isn't punishment. It's conditioning disguised as punishment. Of course saban is against suspensions, he's got one of the teams who always has players fuck up like this. Doing what the coach and the player doesn't want (missed playing time) is how to get to these players. Anyone whos played sports or who has kids who played sports knows most could care less what you give them or take away as long as they can still play. When you have them sit and watch a game that's when it hits them. Obviously you do it to fit the crime. Even a half in the first game is something maybe the whole game if he wasn't supposed to be drinking t all. If it's domestic violence then it should be more or they learn that they can get away with it because they play football.

I find it funny that someone who claims to have served in the military thinks conditioning isn't punishment.