AL Cy Young Award

[broncosmitty]

But will he deserve it. That is the question.

That's a good question. I fall in the "there isn't much value without a post season appearance" crowd, for what it's worth. (MVP vs MOP). But.... Miggy missed time and his team kept winning. For a month now he's been at best, their third best hitter. And he's definitely not their best third baseman right now.( I could make an argument against Miggy better than I could FOR anyone else) If the Angels or Os were going to be making the tourney it'd be as good of a thread as this one. (Good being a relative term)

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Just wondering why does BB matter more than WHIP and if you include WHIP why does it matter at all to answer who was best this season?? why does strike outs matter at all, it is just another out?? Like i said you do not understand the difference between best this season and best pitcher if those are your stats... You care more about talent than results and that is not what we are asking for!!!

What in the blue hell are you talking about? Seriously, were your parents also siblings? Cousins at least? Where the fuck did I say walks were more important than WHIP????? Where? I didn't specify which of those stats were more important than others. It's just a list of the stats I look at to make a COMPLETE evaluation of pitchers.

Strikeouts aren't just outs. They're overvalued by many, but there's still a reason why strikeouts are desirable. There are a lot of situations where a strikeout is the best outcome for a pitcher. Going for strikeouts leads to high pitch counts, and is often accompanied by increased walks, but they're still valuable, and demonstrate a pitcher's dominance.

I absolutely understand the difference between best season and best pitcher. Best season is the best pitcher WITHIN THE FUCKING SEASON. Best pitcher is the best pitcher over the course of several seasons. You simply don't know how to evaluate pitchers AT ALL, whether within an individual season or over several seasons.

Jesus Tap Dancing Christ, this isn't worth my time anymore.

 

[steveringo]

What in the blue hell are you talking about? Seriously, were your parents also siblings? Cousins at least? Where the fuck did I say walks were more important than WHIP????? Where? I didn't specify which of those stats were more important than others. It's just a list of the stats I look at to make a COMPLETE evaluation of pitchers.

Strikeouts aren't just outs. They're overvalued by many, but there's still a reason why strikeouts are desirable. There are a lot of situations where a strikeout is the best outcome for a pitcher. Going for strikeouts leads to high pitch counts, and is often accompanied by increased walks, but they're still valuable, and demonstrate a pitcher's dominance.

I absolutely understand the difference between best season and best pitcher. Best season is the best pitcher WITHIN THE FUCKING SEASON. Best pitcher is the best pitcher over the course of several seasons. You simply don't know how to evaluate pitchers AT ALL, whether within an individual season or over several seasons.

Jesus Tap Dancing Christ, this isn't worth my time anymore.

I'm surprised you lasted this long...

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I'm surprised you lasted this long...

I was trying to be civil because, apparently, people around here are getting tired of my "act".

 

[$500 Million]

Jesus Tap Dancing Christ, this isn't worth my time anymore.

It was never worth your time.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

It was never worth your time.

Probably. I'm an easy mark.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Just wondering why does BB matter more than WHIP and if you include WHIP why does it matter at all to answer who was best this season?? why does strike outs matter at all, it is just another out?? Like i said you do not understand the difference between best this season and best pitcher if those are your stats... You care more about talent than results and that is not what we are asking for!!!

When discussing who the best pitcher is, why do you not care about strikeouts? It's the single best result a pitcher can have. It leaves nothing up to chance. Sure it doesn't matter in the end if you record the out via line drive to center or a strikeout. However, any pitcher will tell you, if they struck out a batter they pitched better in that at bat than the at bat where they got a line out.

Overall though, I'll first look at ERA+ and IP to determine the best pitcher. That gives me a base, then I dig in from there. But if you seriously are asking why do strikeouts matter, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

we are not talking about talent we are talking about who had the best season... best season is all about results... talent is irrelevant... Ks are just another out, and nothing more... yes they show dominance, but best season does not necessary at usually does not mean best player...

 

[Wazmankg]

But will he deserve it. That is the question.

Well he's certainly not undeserving unless you're one of those "WAR is the only stat that matters" guys. I happen to be one of those who believes that the award should go to a player whose team was at least in contention, unless someone just blows everyone away in most of the stats.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

we are not talking about talent we are talking about who had the best season... best season is all about results... talent is irrelevant... Ks are just another out, and nothing more... yes they show dominance, but best season does not necessary at usually does not mean best player...

The most consistently dominant pitcher is the best pitcher, Copernicus.

 

[Hambombs]

Scherzer gets it, followed by Darvish then colon. After that, who cares? This is not based on any crazy computer analysis, or opinions, just based on how it will turn out according to the votes.

*

 

[Hambombs]

we are not talking about talent we are talking about who had the best season... best season is all about results... talent is irrelevant... Ks are just another out, and nothing more... yes they show dominance, but best season does not necessary at usually does not mean best player...

LOL

 

[MilkSpiller22]

LOL

We all have different opinions and i am not saying you guys are wrong, but if the best player always has the best season then lets always give the award to the same players...

 

[soxfan1468927]

we are not talking about talent we are talking about who had the best season... best season is all about results... talent is irrelevant... Ks are just another out, and nothing more... yes they show dominance, but best season does not necessary at usually does not mean best player...

We are talking about best pitcher in the season. You are under the impression that how you get to a result is irrelevant in evaluating who is the better pitcher. I disagree.

And don't forget, strikeouts are a result. And I'm not talking about dominance, that's irrelevant to me, it's simply a term people throw around that means very little.

 

[broncosmitty]

We all have different opinions and i am not saying you guys are wrong, but if the best player always has the best season then lets always give the award to the same players...

I'm confused.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

We are talking about best pitcher in the season. You are under the impression that how you get to a result is irrelevant in evaluating who is the better pitcher. I disagree.

And don't forget, strikeouts are a result. And I'm not talking about dominance, that's irrelevant to me, it's simply a term people throw around that means very little.

How is a strikeout different than another out?? you can say because another out can create a run, but that is a separate statistic... I am not opposed to the inclusion of the statistic in an analysis, but it is not one of the most important stats... it is at best a stat to break a tie...

 

[soxfan1468927]

How is a strikeout different than another out?? you can say because another out can create a run, but that is a separate statistic... I am not opposed to the inclusion of the statistic in an analysis, but it is not one of the most important stats... it is at best a stat to break a tie...

I already explained all of this to you, if you didn't understand it the first time I'm not going to waste my time repeating it.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

We all have different opinions and i am not saying you guys are wrong, but if the best player always has the best season then lets always give the award to the same players...

No one said anything mildly close to this.

 

[Wazmankg]

How is a strikeout different than another out?? you can say because another out can create a run, but that is a separate statistic... I am not opposed to the inclusion of the statistic in an analysis, but it is not one of the most important stats... it is at best a stat to break a tie...

Another out can and often does move a runner up a base. That's not in any other statistic that I'm aware of and is 1 reason why Ks are not an insignificant stat. Ks leave nothing to chance like a hitter reaching on an error which also does not show up in any other stat that I'm aware of... perhaps it's in some defense independent stat, idk. There's always the chance of a runner reaching on a passed ball when he strikes out but that's very rare.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Another out can and often does move a runner up a base. That's not in any other statistic that I'm aware of and is 1 reason why Ks are not an insignificant stat. Ks leave nothing to chance like a hitter reaching on an error which also does not show up in any other stat that I'm aware of... perhaps it's in some defense independent stat, idk. There's always the chance of a runner reaching on a passed ball when he strikes out but that's very rare.

Well it is, when you include ERA... Once you include one stat the other becomes unimportant... for example, We all agree to include WHIP as one of the stats, so why should we care about walks?? It is already included in the stat...

If we include ERA or ERA+ as one of the stats, then doesnt make strikeouts just another out??
If we include WHIP, then how important is it to include walks??