ACC Basketball Thread

[jonvi]

Hey, hey, hey ..... We beat Wake today and improve to 12-4 over all and 4-1 in conference with wins over Va. Tech, Wake, BC, and Duke.

Congrats ET. That game in the Dome on Feb 9 is looming large. I didn't think it was going to be so big...now...with Cuse getting into the meat of the schedule...this is where the season grind starts to grind.

 

[john01992]

Best of the best in college basketball? - SportsNation - ESPN

^^^^^^
I love going through those polls and seeing the state by state breakdown.

the conclusion that I have drawn from it........

1. Arizona has the most homer fanbase this season going against national norms far more often than other states. They were one of just 2 states that believes we will have an undefeated team. (the other was wyoming)

2. Syracuse is clearly the more favored team among americans. Zona is getting more votes in the overall (in the first question at least) only because they did really well in international voting (which makes up over 1/4th of total votes). Inside the US syracuse actually has more votes. In the tournament prediction vote cuse beat zona hands down.

 

[RobToxin]

This is just wrong wrong and wrong!

Syracuse playing against Pitt for first place ....

in the ACC!!!!

That just ain't right!

I HATE PROGRESS!!!

 

[HammerDown]

 

[john01992]

thx for posting hammer, I knew it would be lopsided but not THAT lopsided

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

2. Syracuse is clearly the more favored team among americans. Zona is getting more votes in the overall (in the first question at least) only because they did really well in international voting (which makes up over 1/4th of total votes). Inside the US syracuse actually has more votes.

Bullshit. International voting almost identically mirrors US voting for Cuse and Zona.

 

[john01992]

Bullshit. International voting almost identically mirrors US voting for Cuse and Zona.

it is at 10k votes now.

when I looked at it back when it was around 2k the international voting had a 10% difference

 

[dcZONAfan]

Best of the best in college basketball? - SportsNation - ESPN

^^^^^^
I love going through those polls and seeing the state by state breakdown.

the conclusion that I have drawn from it........

1. Arizona has the most homer fanbase this season going against national norms far more often than other states. They were one of just 2 states that believes we will have an undefeated team. (the other was wyoming)

2. Syracuse is clearly the more favored team among americans. Zona is getting more votes in the overall (in the first question at least) only because they did really well in international voting (which makes up over 1/4th of total votes). Inside the US syracuse actually has more votes. In the tournament prediction vote cuse beat zona hands down.

That's because you are as dumb as the rest of the country. The people who vote on ESPN polls are, for the most part, the people who know nothing about sports and who probably haven't seen either of these teams play. The people who HAVE seen them (sports writers who vote in the polls), overwhelmingly support U of A.

Slaaaaapdick

 

[CatsTopPac]

As I look at it, seems like the East is hot on 'Cuse, and the rest of the country is for AZ (except for some state alliances or outliers).

That article my Medcalf is nothing more than to stir the pot. I'm not saying that AZ is just far and away the best team. AZ, 'Cuse, and MSU are all strong and in the top tier. But if I had to pick one, I'd pick AZ. I just feel like if 'Cuse goes up against a really strong defensive team, then all you need to do is score 55 points to win. And I don't think that's completely out of the question for, a team that can work through that zone enough, to score 55. I think that @UVA, @Pitt, @FSU, and @Duke will yield at least two losses. And I think that in both the conference and national tourneys, they will be counting on a freshman PG to lead them against increasingly difficult opponents with increasing pressure, round after round.

They are undisciplined on offense, and are the same defense they've had for the last 30 years. When they go up against a good offensive coach or defensive coach (who is decent on the other side of the ball) outside of the state of New York, they will lose.

 

[john01992]

That's because you are as dumb as the rest of the country. The people who vote on ESPN polls are, for the most part, the people who know nothing about sports and who probably haven't seen either of these teams play. The people who HAVE seen them (sports writers who vote in the polls), overwhelmingly support U of A.

Slaaaaapdick

lmao i sense quite a bit of butthurt

 

[john01992]

As I look at it, seems like the East is hot on 'Cuse, and the rest of the country is for AZ (except for some state alliances or outliers).

That article my Medcalf is nothing more than to stir the pot. I'm not saying that AZ is just far and away the best team. AZ, 'Cuse, and MSU are all strong and in the top tier. But if I had to pick one, I'd pick AZ. I just feel like if 'Cuse goes up against a really strong defensive team, then all you need to do is score 55 points to win. And I don't think that's completely out of the question for, a team that can work through that zone enough, to score 55. I think that @UVA, @Pitt, @FSU, and @Duke will yield at least two losses. And I think that in both the conference and national tourneys, they will be counting on a freshman PG to lead them against increasingly difficult opponents with increasing pressure, round after round.

They are undisciplined on offense, and are the same defense they've had for the last 30 years. When they go up against a good offensive coach or defensive coach (who is decent on the other side of the ball) outside of the state of New York, they will lose.

1. the population of the US is not a simple 50/50 east-west split

2. the "we are relying on a freshman point guard" line died about 3 months ago. Ennis is as clutch as it gets and It has been a long time since i have seen a player as cool-headed in big time situations as this kid.

3. while we have run the zone for a while it didn't really develop into its current form until 4-5 years ago

4. go look up which state the east region of the ncaa tourny is located

 

[CatsTopPac]

1) I'm talking about majority, not exclusively. Don't make me have to explain this to you.

2) Ennis hasn't played in the ACC Tournament in the State of North Carolina, nor has he played in an Elite Eight game with the chance to go to the Final Four, nor has he played in a Final Four.

3) Teams and coaches have still seen it in one form or another.

4) You games @UVA, @Pitt, @ Duke, @ FSU, The ACC Tournament, and the Final Four are not in the state of New York. If you don't get a #1 seed, or if another #1 seed team in the East takes the region, you will probably not be playing in the State of New York. You getting the #1 seed in the East is not a foregone conclusion. And even if you do, the Final Four is in Dallas.

 

[john01992]

1) I'm talking about majority, not exclusively. Don't make me have to explain this to you.

2) Ennis hasn't played in the ACC Tournament in the State of North Carolina, nor has he played in an Elite Eight game with the chance to go to the Final Four, nor has he played in a Final Four.

3) Teams and coaches have still seen it in one form or another.

4) You games @UVA, @Pitt, @ Duke, @ FSU, The ACC Tournament, and the Final Four are not in the state of New York. If you don't get a #1 seed, or if another #1 seed team in the East takes the region, you will probably not be playing in the State of New York. You getting the #1 seed in the East is not a foregone conclusion. And even if you do, the Final Four is in Dallas.

-being down 18 pts to the #8 team in the nation.....not panically and coming back. Made some great layups & nailed both free throws in the final 2 min of the pitt game. his assist/turnover ratio is 14/1 against ranked teams. speaking of ranked teams, here are his stats.......

Unranked Ranked
PPG 11.1 15.7
FG pct 42.5 45.5
Asst/TO 3.7 14.0

any way you slice it this kid is incredible when it comes to his calmness and i have not seen anything like it in a long time.

-syracuse traveled really well to nc state last year and had so many fans there that espn said it was not a true road game.

-the environment of an elite 8 matchup is a lot closer to the carrier dome than cameroon indoor. I am not worried about ennis in the elite 8 or earlier, especially when it is in the state of NY.

-remind me which arizona players have final four experience? any problem for ennis lacking FF experience gets negated by the rest of the SU team having FF experience which will go a long way in terms of preparing him and calming his nerves.

-and lets face it, nerves is not a problem for him. every time I have seen him play going all the way back to his high school days he steps up to the plate in big time situations. On espn they are always talking about how his facial expressions never change in pressure situations. I think it is totally bullshit to say his play is gonna suffer in big time situations, ESPECIALLY when he has not only never shown that trait before, but has proven time & time again that he can step up to the plate.

syracuse has been placed in the east region in 3 consecutive years, the 4th year we were ineligible for the east because the carrier dome has hosting it. and i really dont get how you expect to say an undefeated team that has the media bias & computer rankings on its side is suddenly gonna lose and even better yet that they will fall out of the top 4-5 of the polls that notion is hilarious in itself.......

but then again this is the same idiot who thinks SU has "just another freshman PG"

 

[CatsTopPac]

All of that, and you didn't say a word.

You just tried to compare what Ennis did in two games at home with what he might do in the Final FOur in Dallas????? Shot yourself in the foot on that one.

And you might want to be seeded in the East before you make all kinds of claims that you aren't worried about him in an Elite Eight game in NY. Because if Nova keeps winning, and 'Cuse gets a few losses between now and Selection Sunday then SU might not even be in the East.

I'm big on Ennis. But a freshman PG is a freshman PG. There is no way to predict what will happen in a Final Four, I don't care what they have been through before. And being a PG in one is just that much more pressure. I'm not saying that he will crack, I'm just saying that I don't know. I'd much rather have a junior running point.

 

[john01992]

All of that, and you didn't say a word.

You just tried to compare what Ennis did in two games at home with what he might do in the Final FOur in Dallas????? Shot yourself in the foot on that one.

And you might want to be seeded in the East before you make all kinds of claims that you aren't worried about him in an Elite Eight game in NY. Because if Nova keeps winning, and 'Cuse gets a few losses between now and Selection Sunday then SU might not even be in the East.

I'm big on Ennis. But a freshman PG is a freshman PG. There is no way to predict what will happen in a Final Four, I don't care what they have been through before. And being a PG in one is just that much more pressure. I'm not saying that he will crack, I'm just saying that I don't know. I'd much rather have a junior running point.

i don't think you get it at all. He has time & time again been praised for his very high performance in pressure situations. And here is what i don't get about you. at no point has ennis EVER shown a weakness in this particular trait. You might might as well be arguing that the team that is #1 in rebounding is going to struggle in the tourny because they lack quality rebounding. the reason why ennis is getting so much praise by espn and co. is because his court composure has been compared to a typical senior. Until ennis starts to show trends that suggest the opposite of that ==> you really can't make this argument.

you really think nova is going to pass us? we beat them in spectacular fashion. syracuse already gets the benefit of the doubt right there. and again we are freaking syracuse, for some reason (and I am sure it has to do with outside forces) we get placed in the east more often than not. And you are banking your hopes on cuse having some sort of late season collapse (something that we have seen zero trends to suggest that happening).

at this point your entire argument is......

ennis will choke in the tourny because i say so
syracuse will have a late season collapse because I say so
nova will get the east because I say so

yeah its easy to win an argument when everything is "because i say so"

 

[CatsTopPac]

i don't think you get it at all. He has time & time again been praised for his very high performance in pressure situations. And here is what i don't get about you. at no point has ennis EVER shown a weakness in this particular trait. You might might as well be arguing that the team that is #1 in rebounding is going to struggle in the tourny because they lack quality rebounding. the reason why ennis is getting so much praise by espn and co. is because his court composure has been compared to a typical senior. Until ennis starts to show trends that suggest the opposite of that ==> you really can't make this argument.

you really think nova is going to pass us? we beat them in spectacular fashion. syracuse already gets the benefit of the doubt right there. and again we are freaking syracuse, for some reason (and I am sure it has to do with outside forces) we get placed in the east more often than not. And you are banking your hopes on cuse having some sort of late season collapse (something that we have seen zero trends to suggest that happening).

at this point your entire argument is......

ennis will choke in the tourny because i say so
syracuse will have a late season collapse because I say so
nova will get the east because I say so

yeah its easy to win an argument when everything is "because i say so"

Wow, you really like to go off the deep end, don't you? First of all, your comparison with rebounding is ridiculous. Rebounding is a skill that is worked on by a team. What I am talking about is poise and composure by someone who has not been in an equal situation. That's not exactly as easy to coach as rebounding. I also stated that I'm not saying that he won't, I'm just saying that he hasn't overcome adversity in a hostel environment at all this year; especially to the point of convincing me that he can do it on some of the tough road games remaining, the ACC Tourney, and if/when he plays any deep tourney games outside of NY. That's a fair critique. Just because he came back from being down, at home against a couple ranked teams, does not mean that he can do that in hostel environments against top talent back courts. Again, I never said he won't, I'm just saying that he hasn't. That's a fair critique. I'm not just singling him out, it's not completely crazy for freshmen to lose an edge in big games away from home. And when the player is a PG, it's more pressure, because they run the offense. He has done a great job this year, and I'm a fan of his. But forgive me for not betting the farm on him that just because he did well against Nova and Pitt at home, that he is a lock to be cool as ice when he plays at Pitt, at Duke, at UVA, at FSU, in Charlotte against teams from Carolina, and anytime he plays deep tourney games that have at least as many Cuse fans as opposing fans, against Elite teams.

Nor did I ever say that Nova was going to pass you. I have no idea. I'm just saying that I'm not willing to bet the farm that Cuse is a lock for the #1 seed in the East. That's it. They have some pretty challenging games ahead, away from home, and they haven't proved to me that they can win games in hostel environments against stiff competition. That is also a fair critique. This is college basketball, teams get upset every day. Why don't we just hand Cuse the trophy now based on an undefeated season? Because they still have to play the games. They still have to prove that they are the best. It's a fair critique to say that they have not proven that they can go into a hostel environment against a solid team, and win. Unless I've missed something, and they've done that this year. Because I'd like you to point out to me where they have. For the 10th time, I'm not saying that they can't or won't, I'm just saying that they haven't. And until they do, they have yet to prove to me that they can, and will, on a consistent basis.

But Nova only plays 1 ranked team for the rest of the season: the Mighty Bluejays of Creighton. That's not exactly like playing the remaining schedule that Cuse has left. It's very conceivable that Nova ends the season with a better record. Nova's SOS is top by all accounts much better than Cuse's. Obviously that will even out in conference play. But if Nova has the better record, with a comparable SOS and RPI, especially if the win their conference tourney and Cuse doesn't, then hell yeah Nova can take the #1 seed. Beating Nova at home doesn't explain what would happen at a neutral location, let alone what would happen in Philly. So it doesn't have to be a collapse by Cuse to not get the top seed in the East. If Nova only has a couple losses, and wins the BE Tourney, and Cuse has 3-4 losses and doesn't win the ACC Tourney, I could see Cuse getting the #1 seed, but not in the East. It's not that crazy of a possibility.

So, as opposed to you accusing me of chalking everything up to a "because I said so" argument, I just haven't seen it yet, and there is far too much basketball left to be played, before I go out handing Cuse an undefeated season, the ACC title, the ACC Tourney title, a #1 seed in the East, the regional championship, and the National Chamionship. Please, find it in your heart to forgive me.

Because whatever you calling for in terms of your predictions, all I have seen from Cuse is that they play very well at home, in front of 3k people in Maui, and against VT and BC on the road. I need to see much more than that before I'm buying everything that you're selling.

 

[Runeman]

I agree that Ennis is an excellent player and to write him off just because he a freshman is a bit short sighted. Along with Cooney, Syracuse has one of the best guard set-up in CBB. If I were to pick on Syracuse, it's that they don't have a "go to" guy. it seems that someone steps up and gets it done. Against Pitt; Ennis and Cooney were throwing up bricks and the game stayed close. All that said, I haven't seen a better team play. Again, seems to me that Arizona and Syracuse has separated themselves a bit from the rest. All that can change.

 

[CatsTopPac]

I agree that Ennis is an excellent player and to write him off just because he a freshman is a bit short sighted. Along with Cooney, Syracuse has one of the best guard set-up in CBB. If I were to pick on Syracuse, it's that they don't have a "go to" guy. it seems that someone steps up and gets it done. Against Pitt; Ennis and Cooney were throwing up bricks and the game stayed close. All that said, I haven't seen a better team play. Again, seems to me that Arizona and Syracuse has separated themselves a bit from the rest. All that can change.

I agree with all of that. And I'm definitely not writing Ennis off. I'm just not willing to pencil him in as someone who is going to be able to be counted on in big-game hostel situations, against top opponents, until he does it.

 

[hokiehi21]

Heels @ Hoos tonight. My two most hated teams. Hmmmm who to root for? :confused2:

 

[Edisto_Tiger]

Heels @ Hoos tonight. My two most hated teams. Hmmmm who to root for? :confused2:

A power outage? Both teams forfeit. It could happen ..... OK, maybe not.