A post dedicated to WVU Dad

[WVUDAD]

As a voter, why wouldn’t you expect these programs to replace talent with talent?

History, my friend. Every year they vote the same teams high in the preseason polls, then give more credence to the teams that beat them, Ohio State for instance, gets propped up even more by beating many ranked teams based on those preseason polls with 9 B1G teams ranked, even though everyone knows those teams really didn't belong, same with the SEC having tons of teams ranked preseason, only to see many of them end up 6-6......I actually liked it better when the "national championship" was viewed as what it really is, just something to talk about, number one priority used to be win against your rivals, win your league......now it is to impress a committee........to win a "playoff" where the teams are decided by a few people, not by play on the field.

 

[GoldRusher]

When you look at the preseason polls every year and see the same teams in the top ten based solely on their names, only to see those teams tank during the season, still ranked with three losses, above undefeated non name teams, it makes you that way.

How many times has Texas been "back" now? (FTR they may finally BE back)

How bout "the U"?

Michigan?

 

[Mike]

Tavon deserved at least a SEAT in NY but..... nuthin.

That was the year of Johnny Football ATM is not a blue blood Tavon was a special player, I enjoyed watching him play more than anyone else that has put on the blue & gold, but his year was no where even close to the year Johnny Football Had

 

[GoldRusher]

That was the year of Johnny Football ATM is not a blue blood Tavon was a special player, I enjoyed watching him play more than anyone else that has put on the blue & gold, but his year was no where even close to the year Johnny Football Had

A SEAT at the ceremony, not the award, a. freggin. seat.

He deserved at least that but.. not enough money in the good ol boy system and not enough fanbase from lil ol WVU so... Tavon gets screwed.

You tellin me that Manti Te'o and Collin Klein were better "most outstanding players" That year? Heck naw, Tavon did everything except play QB and excelled.

Had we had a HC with a little more imagination he would have played some QB too!

 

[WVUDAD]

A SEAT at the ceremony, not the award, a. freggin. seat.

He deserved at least that but.. not enough money in the good ol boy system and not enough fanbase from lil ol WVU so... Tavon gets screwed.

You tellin me that Manti Te'o and Collin Klein were better "most outstanding players" That year? Heck naw, Tavon did everything except play QB and excelled.

Had we had a HC with a little more imagination he would have played some QB too!

I remember the post game interview with the mad hatter when we went to baton rouge and was a Clarke fumble from beating them, miles gushed over what a great football player tavon was.

 

[bbwvfan]

History, my friend. Every year they vote the same teams high in the preseason polls, then give more credence to the teams that beat them, Ohio State for instance, gets propped up even more by beating many ranked teams based on those preseason polls with 9 B1G teams ranked, even though everyone knows those teams really didn't belong, same with the SEC having tons of teams ranked preseason, only to see many of them end up 6-6......I actually liked it better when the "national championship" was viewed as what it really is, just something to talk about, number one priority used to be win against your rivals, win your league......now it is to impress a committee........to win a "playoff" where the teams are decided by a few people, not by play on the field.

There are flaws in your argument.

1. Human polls like the AP and Coach’s no longer matter.
2. Preseason polls in either human poll mean absolutely nothing after we reach mid-season... the human polls are acting more like the committee.
3. Resumes are built throughout the season based on a number of issues...
4. The committee determines who’s play on the field was the most deserving. For the first time, who you lose to and how you lose matter.
5. We no longer see teams stay ranked ahead of others simply because they didn’t lose. We no longer see teams lose one week and drop below all of the other teams that won that week.
6. The committee has ranked the same top 4 teams as the old BCS system would have done. Yes... there is a guy who calculates this for us.

Playoffs have made the sport much more popular and meaningful.

 

[Slaton10]

There are flaws in your argument.

1. Human polls like the AP and Coach’s no longer matter.
2. Preseason polls in either human poll mean absolutely nothing after we reach mid-season... the human polls are acting more like the committee.
3. Resumes are built throughout the season based on a number of issues...
4. The committee determines who’s play on the field was the most deserving. For the first time, who you lose to and how you lose matter.
5. We no longer see teams stay ranked ahead of others simply because they didn’t lose. We no longer see teams lose one week and drop below all of the other teams that won that week.
6. The committee has ranked the same top 4 teams as the old BCS system would have done. Yes... there is a guy who calculates this for us.

Playoffs have made the sport much more popular and meaningful.

I would challenge your points a bit..and lean towards Dad maybe a pinch...These Conferences now maybe too big..I think though it hurts them in the long run the Big12 has it right.everyone plays everyone and then sprinkle in a couple of great OOC games..Look at Alabama's schedule year in and year out... and Ohio States and Clemson for that matter.their second team players could run those schedules...they are pretty much only playing 3 games a year with the absolute disgrace the rest of the teams in their divisions are..and then they feel good adding a Citadel or NC A&T in there...

 

[bbwvfan]

I would challenge your points a bit..and lean towards Dad maybe a pinch...These Conferences now maybe too big..I think though it hurts them in the long run the Big12 has it right.everyone plays everyone and then sprinkle in a couple of great OOC games..Look at Alabama's schedule year in and year out... and Ohio States and Clemson for that matter.their second team players could run those schedules...they are pretty much only playing 3 games a year with the absolute disgrace the rest of the teams in their divisions are..and then they feel good adding a Citadel or NC A&T in there...

Definitely have to push back on questioning the strength of schedule for Bama and tOSU. Both schools arguably play in the two toughest divisions in college football.

The Ohio State plays a 9 game IC schedule today. Something neither the ACC or SEC do. However, I won’t challenge Clemson’s OOC schedule. They played A&M the past couple of years. They play intrastate rival USCe every year.

None of them schools are afraid to challenge themselves OOC.

 

[WVUDAD]

Playoffs have made the sport much more popular and meaningful.

What they call a playoff is NOT a playoff. A playoff is where conference champions are ALL included, plus some wild card teams. When 60% of the teams playing a sport are not able to win, it is NOT a playoff. You say the human polls don't matter, BS!!! The committee IS a human poll, no different than the AP or coaches poll, except it is made up of fewer people. If the sport is more popular and meaningful, why is attendance down nationwide?????

 

[bbwvfan]

What they call a playoff is NOT a playoff. A playoff is where conference champions are ALL included, plus some wild card teams. When 60% of the teams playing a sport are not able to win, it is NOT a playoff. You say the human polls don't matter, BS!!! The committee IS a human poll, no different than the AP or coaches poll, except it is made up of fewer people. If the sport is more popular and meaningful, why is attendance down nationwide?????

Human polls... the AP and the USA Today Coach’s polls. Those polls... they don’t matter.

Why don’t you attend WVU Games?

Do you watch them on TV? What do the ratings look like today compared to the 70’s and 80’s?

 

[Slaton10]

Definitely have to push back on questioning the strength of schedule for Bama and tOSU. Both schools arguably play in the two toughest divisions in college football.

The Ohio State plays a 9 game IC schedule today. Something neither the ACC or SEC do. However, I won’t challenge Clemson’s OOC schedule. They played A&M the past couple of years. They play intrastate rival USCe every year.

None of them schools are afraid to challenge themselves OOC.

Alabama...

1. Alabama
2. LSU
3. Texas A&M
4. Mississippi State
5. Auburn
6. Ole Miss
7. Arkansas

LSU , Auburn...and throw in an an over hyped TAMU team maybe...then they have South Carolina and Tennessee this year cross division, then a 4 game OOC slate of NM State, Duke, Southern Miss and Western Carolina...


Ohio State

Indiana
Maryland
Michigan
Michigan State
Penn State
Rutgers

Ohio State is slightly better.Michigan, MSU (in decline) and PSU.,,cross conference Wisky, Northwestern./.OOC - FAU and Cinncy and Miami (OH)...


I realize things are cyclical and conferences have ups and downs...but at least nor in the near future teams like Ole Miss, R-Kansas, Miss State, Rutgers , Maryland and IU are never going to challenge...

Unlike the Big 12 were ...and I do believe this ...every team including Kansas because Les Miles will make them more than competitive is the most competitive conference in the country...yet they will never be seen that way unless they take the path of the SEC and Big 10 and add teams and create a softening of a path to an undefeated season and get playoff eligible..

 

[bbwvfan]

Alabama...

1. Alabama
2. LSU
3. Texas A&M
4. Mississippi State
5. Auburn
6. Ole Miss
7. Arkansas

LSU , Auburn...and throw in an an over hyped TAMU team maybe...then they have South Carolina and Tennessee this year cross division, then a 4 game OOC slate of NM State, Duke, Southern Miss and Western Carolina...


Ohio State

Indiana
Maryland
Michigan
Michigan State
Penn State
Rutgers

Ohio State is slightly better.Michigan, MSU (in decline) and PSU.,,cross conference Wisky, Northwestern./.OOC - FAU and Cinncy and Miami (OH)...


I realize things are cyclical and conferences have ups and downs...but at least nor in the near future teams like Ole Miss, R-Kansas, Miss State, Rutgers , Maryland and IU are never going to challenge...

Unlike the Big 12 were ...and I do believe this ...every team including Kansas because Les Miles will make them more than competitive is the most competitive conference in the country...yet they will never be seen that way unless they take the path of the SEC and Big 10 and add teams and create a softening of a path to an undefeated season and get playoff eligible..

Who did OU play OOC this year?

How many ranked teams will we have in the Big 12 at season’s end?

If we look at the last 3 years, Sagarin has the following rankings for SOS...

Clemson - ‘18-#25... ‘17-#4..... ‘16-#3
Bama - ‘18-#9.... ‘17-#27... ‘16-#1
tOSU - ‘18-#38.... ‘17-#13... ‘16-#6
OU - ‘18-#12... ‘17-#7... ‘16-#14

IMO... the Big 12 made a real impact with its CCG. Helps the champion improve its SOS... get a top 25 win...

I agree with you about conference sizes though. They are too big. How strange is it that WF and UNC played each other as a non-conference game? It can be 10 years between conference opponents playing each other...

 

[Slaton10]

Who did OU play OOC this year?

How many ranked teams will we have in the Big 12 at season’s end?

If we look at the last 3 years, Sagarin has the following rankings for SOS...

Clemson - ‘18-#25... ‘17-#4..... ‘16-#3
Bama - ‘18-#9.... ‘17-#27... ‘16-#1
tOSU - ‘18-#38.... ‘17-#13... ‘16-#6
OU - ‘18-#12... ‘17-#7... ‘16-#14

IMO... the Big 12 made a real impact with its CCG. Helps the champion improve its SOS... get a top 25 win...

I agree with you about conference sizes though. They are too big. How strange is it that WF and UNC played each other as a non-conference game? It can be 10 years between conference opponents playing each other...

So it gets you to ask the question how good is the SOS intel and weight?... and I get the OU comparison, the only thing I would regurgitate is that they play everyone of the teams in its league ....

 

[bbwvfan]

So it gets you to ask the question how good is the SOS intel and weight?... and I get the OU comparison, the only thing I would regurgitate is that they play everyone of the teams in its league ....

Sagarin is the gold standard. One of the computer models used in the old BCS.

No doubt the Big 12 round robin is the best true test.

 

[GoldRusher]

What they call a playoff is NOT a playoff. A playoff is where conference champions are ALL included, plus some wild card teams. When 60% of the teams playing a sport are not able to win, it is NOT a playoff. You say the human polls don't matter, BS!!! The committee IS a human poll, no different than the AP or coaches poll, except it is made up of fewer people. If the sport is more popular and meaningful, why is attendance down nationwide?????

I always enjoy the “at the time” argument that we see when the talking heads are justifying their team. ________ was #_____ “at the time”.

Like that somehow legitimizes and impresses everyone when that team winds up a 6-7 win colossus. “At the time” those teams are riding their name/fanbase size and get ranked for it.

 

[GoldRusher]

Sagarin is the gold standard. One of the computer models used in the old BCS.

No doubt the Big 12 round robin is the best true test.

Used part of the WVSSAC HS system to rank the “playoff contenders” in CFB (based on a 16 team playoff system).

IIRC it has been pretty close when it comes to what the committee puts out. Since WV only has 3 levels of HSFB I think it works pretty good for ranking CFB teams and rewards/punishes for playing tougher teams/weaker teams.

Win over a P5 (AAA In the HS rankings)= 12

Win over a G5 (AA)= 9

Win over a FCS (A) = 6

Bonus point for every win a defeated P5 opponent gets over another P5. WV has a 16 team playoff, alot of ties at this point of the season but it tends to weed itself out as the year progresses.





1. Clemson (60)
2. Auburn (57)
3. Alabama (57)
4. Ohio State (52)
5. Florida (48)
6. Wisconsin (43)
7. Penn State (43)
8. Washington (43)
9. Arizona State (43)
10. Cal ( 42)
11. Iowa (42)
12. Utah (41)
13. Virginia (41)
14. Georgia (41)
15. SMU (41)
16. Oklahoma (40)
17. Oklahoma State (40)
18. LSU (40)

I felt like that it would weed out some of the bias that we see in CFB BUT.....

Maybe they are using a similar system when the rankings come out? Ill try n remember to use it again when they do.

 

[bbwvfan]

IMO... the great thing about the committee... is that they actually spend time together to work through the process. If one of the members has bias... he/she has to recuse themself from the vote.

We all know the Coach's poll is actually completed by someone from the athletic dept/coaching staff... the SID or one of the GA's. Sportswriters have to vote within 12 hrs of the last game. There is no way they have spent/invested the same amount of time as the committee members.

I don't always agree with their ranking... but, I trust the process more today than ever before...

 

[Slaton10]

Sagarin is the gold standard. One of the computer models used in the old BCS.

No doubt the Big 12 round robin is the best true test.

I give you some food for thought over a drink this weekend...factoring in FCS games..

 

[WVUDAD]

don't always agree with their ranking... but, I trust the process more today than ever before...

It spoke volumes a few years ago when urban Meyer told in his presser that he was glad it was Baylor and not Oklahoma.....watching osu and Baylor both win, osu moved up, Baylor moved down, Oklahoma would not have dropped, the committee is just as biased as any other human poll.

 

[Dusty]

My grandson was accepted there. After touring many campuses, the last being James Madison, he has chosen West Virginia. He is a senior at a high school in Hagerstown, Maryland and lives just over the border in Pennsylvania. So it’s about a three hour trip from home. I understand that the mountains can be a challenge in the winter. Right now anyway, he is talking about law school down the road there. But that’s a long way off and he could change his mind. We understand that law school tuition for out of state is the same as for in state. He and his mother attended the North Carolina State game there the other weekend and loved it. They were very impressed by the campus. I may have to become a fan.