A.L. Central Smack 2015

[MiamiVice]

If so, it's heavily diluted with arrogance so thick it presents itself as the skills of an idiot.

I have been told i am an arrogant prick many times in my life.

 

[MiamiVice]

Because it is a Red Herring argument not worth fiddling with.

hahaahahahahaha kind of like all arguments involving advanced metrics. "Pick and choose the ones that work for you, when they work for you" that is the stat nerd motto.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Maybe, seperated by less than 3 wRC+.

What seems more relevant is Nick Castellanos has been below replacement value his entire career. Moustakas has been above it his entire career. Just a slight difference...

 

[MiamiVice]

If you like a player.. but his stats don't show what you want... keep looking for an advanced metric that shows it... - The secondary motto of stat nerds.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

hahaahahahahaha kind of like all arguments involving advanced metrics. "Pick and choose the ones that work for you, when they work for you" that is the stat nerd motto.

Instead of using your supposed intelligence to rip apart said data, you accuse "stat nerds" of cherry-picking- excellent.

 

[MiamiVice]

Once again.. our conversation is about offense.. yet you keep speaking about advanced metrics that include defense to defend your favorite player.... Im sorry it hurts bro.. but Moustakas isn't even an average player on offense for the vast majority of his career... Keep looking for an advanced metric that proves me wrong.. but clearly you can't find it because you keep bringing up WAR when the original discussion was about Moustakas's offense.

 

[MiamiVice]

Instead of using your supposed intelligence to rip apart said data, you accuse "stat nerds" of cherry-picking- excellent.

You are cherry picking... clearly.. I keep talking about Moustakas offense.. you keep sighting defense included stats because if you don't it will not show what you want it to.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Once again.. our conversation is about offense.. yet you keep speaking about advanced metrics that include defense to defend your favorite player.... Im sorry it hurts bro.. but Moustakas isn't even an average player on offense for the vast majority of his career... Keep looking for an advanced metric that proves me wrong.. but clearly you can't find it because you keep bringing up WAR when the original discussion was about Moustakas's offense.

You are correct, Moustakas has been above average offensively exactly once- this year.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

You are cherry picking... clearly.. I keep talking about Moustakas offense.. you keep sighting defense included stats because if you don't it will not show what you want it to.

I can say the same for your discussion of offense, which ignores total value. Who's really cherry picking here?

 

[MiamiVice]

I can rip advanced metrics apart all day long if I want... advanced metrics are figured in a vacuum. The vast majority of them are not real world related and in pure attempts to discredit traditional stats, they ignore many things.

 

[MiamiVice]

You are correct, Moustakas has been above average offensively exactly once- this year.

By the end of the year he will be back to being below... Outside of the month of April... he has either been below or at average... it won't be long before his season stats look more like his career numbers.

 

[MiamiVice]

I can say the same for your discussion of offense, which ignores total value. Who's really cherry picking here?

Our discussion is about offense... not about total value... so its NOT cherry picking.. you are the one that keeps including total value into the conversation to try to sell anyone that reads this why moustakas still is a starter on a MLB team.

 

[MiamiVice]

At no point did I say Castellanos is a better defender than Moustakas or even league average in that sense... but at the plate.. I would rather have Castellanos.. because as a 23 year old he is much more advanced with the bat... and given 2 or 3 years.. will far surpass anything Moustakas will ever be with a bat in his hand.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

advanced metrics are figured in a vacuum

So are RBI, if not much moreso- and wOBA has shown to have a >90% confidence value when it comes to predicting run scoring. So why the resistance to using something that doesn't implicitly need baserunners in front of you in order to give you credit? Because you grew up with RBI more than likely?

The vast majority of them are not real world related

How so, because you don't understand them?

and in pure attempts to discredit traditional stats, they ignore many things.

How so, because research doesn't go the way you want? Do many saber people ignore anomalies? Yes, I think they do. That's not really what you appear to be arguing, however.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Our discussion is about offense... not about total value... so its NOT cherry picking.. you are the one that keeps including total value into the conversation to try to sell anyone that reads this why moustakas still is a starter on a MLB team.

Then we are ignoring the elephant in the room. And that's a silly thing to do. Casty has roughly the same career wRC+ as Moustakas at this point in their careers, so it's kind of pointless to say one is decisively better offensively through 23.

 

[MiamiVice]

I am all for looking at advanced metrics... they have a place.. but for you to say RBI are meaningless, and BA with RISP is meaningless is actually just as stupid as I would be to say many advanced metrics are meaningless.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

By the end of the year he will be back to being below... Outside of the month of April... he has either been below or at average... it won't be long before his season stats look more like his career numbers.

Except for that time I showed a wRC+ by month line.... Every one of them being above average except for July.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I am all for looking at advanced metrics... they have a place.. but for you to say RBI are meaningless, and BA with RISP is meaningless is actually just as stupid as I would be to say many advanced metrics are meaningless.

When there's no meaningful correlation of clutch, BA with RISP, etc as a skill. There's little reason to believe it has much worth based on implicit data.

 

[MiamiVice]

Who would you rather have at the plate with a runner on second in the 9th inning when you need a run? Moustakas or Hosmer?

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Who would you rather have at the plate with a runner on second in the 9th inning when you need a run? Moustakas or Hosmer?

Hosmer? Hosmer has a much more diverse skill set at the plate than Moustakas besides defense. That's been the common thought since Hosmer has been in A ball. One's a 1B though, the other is a 3B.

We are comparing a 3B to a 3B, no?

Hosmer has a wRC+ around 137 now, iirc. So yeah, pretty good. Moose is at 111.