A Few Thoughts Before Elimination or Game 7

[MHSL82]

More and more people here in Salt Lake are talking about trading Gobert because there will be a market for him, even if it is not a big one as we want.

There are three reasons why I don’t want to do that. One, I don’t know if we are going to get the player that we want to replace him with, whether that is from the draft or free agency or trade. Obviously, I can say that because I have no say on what the team is going to do. They will do what they feel they need.

Second, I watch this for entertainment and while I want to win, that’s not the only thing. Yes, I will complain about when we don’t win. However, there are other factors that make the NBA enjoyable or not enjoyable for me. I don’t trust that Gobert will keep his mouth shut or just play hard against us. I don’t like having to deal with former Jazz players whether that is for distain from the fans, the treatment from the fans when he comes back, the city, the coach, or teammates. I have no control over any of that and so when there’s something negative, it bugs me. If someone were mad at me for what I said, fine, but some asshole decides to do something, modern day players and I’m sure it existed before, have to self protect and they end up going overboard.

third, I know when we had offensive struggles after trading him, someone will say, “Gee, our defense isn’t any good, I wish we had a tall center. Think about the Stockton and Malone days how we would do with a Gobert?” “Mitchell has no help.” Why are we trading our guy? Why don’t we fix the other 10? I know, I know, because we’re not only one guy away… but let’s get one fewer guy. I know it is the money issue and convincing others to come.

 

[The Q]

More and more people here in Salt Lake are talking about trading Gobert because there will be a market for him, even if it is not a big one as we want.

There are three reasons why I don’t want to do that. One, I don’t know if we are going to get the player that we want to replace him with, whether that is from the draft or free agency or trade. Obviously, I can say that because I have no say on what the team is going to do. They will do what they feel they need.

Second, I watch this for entertainment and while I want to win, that’s not the only thing. Yes, I will complain about when we don’t win. However, there are other factors that make the NBA enjoyable or not enjoyable for me. I don’t trust that Gobert will keep his mouth shut or just play hard against us. I don’t like having to deal with former Jazz players whether that is for distain from the fans, the treatment from the fans when he comes back, the city, the coach, or teammates. I have no control over any of that and so when there’s something negative, it bugs me. If someone were mad at me for what I said, fine, but some asshole decides to do something, modern day players and I’m sure it existed before, have to self protect and they end up going overboard.

third, I know when we had offensive struggles after trading him, someone will say, “Gee, our defense isn’t any good, I wish we had a tall center. Think about the Stockton and Malone days how we would do with a Gobert?” “Mitchell has no help.” Why are we trading our guy? Why don’t we fix the other 10? I know, I know, because we’re not only one guy away… but let’s get one fewer guy. I know it is the money issue and convincing others to come.

I would go to atl in theory

Their young c
Jaylen Johnson (their first rounder last year)
14th pick this year

Not sure what y’all would do with Conley. He’s getting up there and wouldnt fit this timeline

 

[MHSL82]

I have also determined that while I don’t expect this group to win anything and I do think Dallas is better than we are, it bugs me to lose to them because they’re not going to win. I would like for us to win the championship or to lose to the team who will. Some people talk about first round exits or not reaching potential or how last year was our chance, etc. But I really think it is just are we losing to the champion or not? If we are not losing to the team that’s going to win, we are losing to a team like ourselves (the rest of the pack). (We should beat ourselves. Some say that we do already.)

 

[nuraman00]

Second, I watch this for entertainment and while I want to win, that’s not the only thing. Yes, I will complain about when we don’t win. However, there are other factors that make the NBA enjoyable or not enjoyable for me. I don’t trust that Gobert will keep his mouth shut or just play hard against us. I don’t like having to deal with former Jazz players whether that is for distain from the fans, the treatment from the fans when he comes back, the city, the coach, or teammates. I have no control over any of that and so when there’s something negative, it bugs me. If someone were mad at me for what I said, fine, but some asshole decides to do something, modern day players and I’m sure it existed before, have to self protect and they end up going overboard.

Do you mean you think if Rudy were on another team, when he'd play at Utah, local Jazz fans would boo and mock his FTs?

 

[nuraman00]

I don't want to trade Gobert because he's a generational talent and the Jazz can win with him.

They just need other pieces.

Losing Ingles, Niang, and a less effective Clarkson hurt. That's 3 positions they can do better at.

And they need to find a young PG to take over for Conley at some point. He can't really settle a team, anymore.

 

[MHSL82]

I know that our defensive philosophy is based on having Gobert and it would change if we did not have him. I wonder if our defense of philosophy if we were to treat him with change enough to fix the weaknesses, such as perimeter defense. in other words, how much of our philosophy is personnel-based where we have players and decide on what to do based upon those players skills versus us having a philosophy and drafting or signing players based upon that. Obviously, Rudy is a generational player and so we could not have gotten him or replace him based upon his exceptional skill simply based upon philosophy. Was he here before Quin? That’s how out of that I am to not know.

I think that this would obviously have to be solved by getting younger. I haven’t watched really any games this year and I’m not an expert, but I imagine that we play further away from the perimeter so faster players cannot blow by us. I also feel that they want to funnel players towards Gobert and if we didn’t have him, we wouldn’t do that.

Teams that don’t want to go there will take the perimeter shot more often and therefore make it more often. Plus, of course, offensive systems are favoring perimeter shots more and more anyway. Since I know nothing, I kind of felt that since we have someone who was good at blocking, if we focused on perimeter defense, maybe Gobert makes up for those who do blow by our older guards.

 

[nuraman00]

I would like for us to win the championship or to lose to the team who will.

2017: Lost to Golden State, who won the title. Lost in a sweep.
2018: Lost to Houston who lost to Golden State. Does not meet requirements.
2019: Lost to Houston who lost to Golden State who lost to Toronto. Does not meet requirements.
2020: Lost to Denver who lost to the L.A. Lakers, who won the title. Does not meet requirements.
2021: Lost to the L.A. Clippers who lost to the Suns who lost to the Bucks. Does not meet requirements.
2022: Lost to Dallas, the rest TBD.

 

[nuraman00]

Was he here before Quin? That’s how out of that I am to not know.

Yes, Gobert was drafted in 2013, when Tyrone Corbin, aka "The Milkman", was the coach.

 

[nuraman00]

and I’m not an expert

You're an expert. Not enough said, because I like beat boxing your praises and am happy to do so anytime.

 

[nuraman00]

us having a philosophy and drafting or signing players based upon that.

I think the Jazz need to change their philosophy. Boston (Robert Williams III), Miami (Adebayo), and Phoenix (Ayton) have good interior defenders too, but also better perimeter defenders than the Jazz too.

 

[nuraman00]

You're an expert. Not enough said, because I like beat boxing your praises and am happy to do so anytime.

I'm waiting for @MHSL82 to like this post. I hope he likes a post in which I undoubtedly declare him an expert on Jazz basketball.

 

[nuraman00]

Someone also needs to show Donovan Mitchell tapes of how Marcus Smart (Boston), Jimmy Butler (Miami), Chris Paul (Phoenix), or Jose Alvarado (New Orleans) defend, and set his expectations of himself higher.

 

[nuraman00]

I would like for us to win the championship or to lose to the team who will.

2017: Lost to Golden State, who won the title. Lost in a sweep.
2018: Lost to Houston who lost to Golden State. Does not meet requirements.
2019: Lost to Houston who lost to Golden State who lost to Toronto. Does not meet requirements.
2020: Lost to Denver who lost to the L.A. Lakers, who won the title. Does not meet requirements.
2021: Lost to the L.A. Clippers who lost to the Suns who lost to the Bucks. Does not meet requirements.
2022: Lost to Dallas, the rest TBD.

At this point, whether Dallas wins the championship or does not, even if it technically meets @MHSL82's requirements, I will say it does not. Because there just is not a comparison between Utah and Dallas anymore. Utah would not have won a game 7 by 33 points, which was really a 40 point win, because Dallas lead by 40+ for most of the game.

Losing to the team that wins the championship is only a decent feel good point, if it was a close series.

So 2017 doesn't really meet the requirements either, because it was a sweep.

And in these 2022 playoffs, because Dallas has played much better against Phoenix than Utah would have, taking into account this game 7 win by Dallas by 40 points for most of the game (on the road too), there just isn't a comparison between Utah and Dallas.

 

[MHSL82]

At this point, whether Dallas wins the championship or does not, even if it technically meets @MHSL82's requirements, I will say it does not. Because there just is not a comparison between Utah and Dallas anymore. Utah would not have won a game 7 by 33 points, which was really a 40 point win, because Dallas lead by 40+ for most of the game.

Losing to the team that wins the championship is only a decent feel good point, if it was a close series.

So 2017 doesn't really meet the requirements either, because it was a sweep.

And in these 2022 playoffs, because Dallas has played much better against Phoenix than Utah would have, taking into account this game 7 win by Dallas by 40 points for most of the game (on the road too), there just isn't a comparison between Utah and Dallas.

It tells me two things: we would have had no chance to beat Phoenix in so it wouldn’t matter. And yes, I would rather lose to the team that wins next round than to the team that loses the next round.

 

[nuraman00]

we would have had no chance to beat Phoenix in so it wouldn’t matter.

Yes, I'm struggling to see how the Jazz would have had advantages over Phoenix.

Maybe if Chris Paul played as poorly as he had in several games, it would make things closer. But I don't have much confidence, right now.

 

[MHSL82]

Yes, I'm struggling to see how the Jazz would have had advantages over Phoenix.

Maybe if Chris Paul played as poorly as he had in several games, it would make things closer. But I don't have much confidence, right now.

Suns in six. This series would’ve been like the Mavericks series had we somehow advanced.