A Case for a Bears Win: What to Watch for...

[JoeyTourettes]

Thanks- but the debate continues... (And I truly would rather have a poster like you *without the "fucks" that looks and writes and then just disputes without "proof" or points- so thanks keep that up)
It's just how some people look at things-
You and others want to find fault... and I and others want to see the positives. Simple.
That's why you will say things like:

The 4 yard toss to Alshon was nice, but the throw was quick and Jay missed either Holmes or Bellamy (couldn't see the jersey number) wide open in the middle of the field for a first down (or close to it). (2:05/1st Quarter)

Stop that: You DON'T know what the play was- What the read was, what the protection was... You can't make blanket statements about "He didn't even throw it to the right guy" And this goes to Jay's point in his Pissy press conference last week.
You use that same thing for half of your points...
"Jay missed the open guy" "he stared down his target" "bad throw": I'm at work now- but I do want to find the "bad throws" that Marshall and Alshon dropped early- Short plays. Not that big of deal, in the grand scheme...but guys that have the "Cutler sucks" bend will point those out- and that pisses me off.

ALSO- TV film of the NFL is crap... You can't see the DB's and can't watch the coverages change and shift.
Especially on deep throws- Believe it or not, Defensive players RUN TO the ball when it's thrown. And an open wr is a VERY small window. I couldn't see what the safety was doing on the deep 3rd and 28 pass. BEFORE he threw it. And neither could you... What you can see is the reacted to the ball in the air- so it "looks" like double coverage when the camera and the ball all meet, but that's just not true... or we just don't know. I could be wrong too...but there is room for doubt for me.
EVERY QB EVERY week could have someone like you point out the "almost interceptions" I know I did with McCown last year- and yet people would say things like BUT IT wasn't intercepted- so it's ok... But they can't say that with Jay? Why?

 

[anotheridiot]

Thanks- but the debate continues... (And I truly would rather have a poster like you *without the "fucks" that looks and writes and then just disputes without "proof" or points- so thanks keep that up)
It's just how some people look at things-
You and others want to find fault... and I and others want to see the positives. Simple.

Right, I get that, last year with McCown it was OK to bring up faults, but with a superstar highest paid QB in the nfl, its not ok. If the defense did not give him turnovers and a short field that game was over.

I think wounded at least established there were more than 2 bad passes. But again, these are all points that we would not even be looking for if your side simply admitted he had a bad first half. The TD ball to marshall should not have even been caught. It was not thrown where "it had to be", it was a poor throw with an exceptional effort on a hurt Marshall. So instead of admitting faults of "your" guy, you choose to call us out as haters to end the conversation.

Hopefully more guys step up here and show their displeasure in Jay when he plays badly. Pretty sure most of them just dont want to deal with this bull and arguing over stuff that is not important.

 

[nomoreshoop]

there are rivalries (Packers/Bears) and then THERE ARE RIVALRIES (this frigging chatroom), lol

 

[Wounded Bear]

Thanks- but the debate continues... (And I truly would rather have a poster like you *without the "fucks" that looks and writes and then just disputes without "proof" or points- so thanks keep that up)

Sure. Joey. I want you to know that I really care what ignorant posters such as yourself think....it means a lot to me. I now know you've chosen the role of the forums lame ass schoolmarm, who tries to fit in and talk football, but in reality, everyone knows she don't know shit.

And after carefully going through the game tape (at your request) and seeing what you called "catchable balls" was laughable, showing me that you are either:

A) a Jay Cutler apologist, blinded by his stardom and unable to see any flaws in his game and now will proceed to stick his fingers in his ears screaming "stop talking, stop talking, stop talking....!"

B) just a dude that knows very little about football or the wide receiver position especially when you say that the hard and high pass to Alshon Jeffery that brushed his fingertips was catchable. I found that amusing....or

C) all of the above.

It's just how some people look at things-
You and others want to find fault... and I and others want to see the positives. Simple.

No, Joey. Once again you're showing that you really don't know the game and are desperate here.

Textbook Football 101 for quarterbacking demands that if there aren't any obstructions, such as a DB, etc. the QB should try to throw the ball into the "numbers" or hit the "receivers hands" depending on the type of pass play. Drew Brees says he likes to throw at the receivers face since it's a natural reaction for the receiver to throw up his hands and increases the chance for a completion. FYI, brushing a receiver's fingertips with a 60 mph fastball is not catchable.

Throwing hard and at the receivers feet instead of at his face or chest lowers the percentage of success. Logical no brainer. Throwing hard and high instead of lower to the chest or face lowers the percentage. Anyone who played the game knows that. Throwing behind a receiver's momentum and away from his blockers is counterproductive to how the play was designed. I noted that as well, but I think you had your head up Jay's ass for that one. Throwing into double coverage is Football 101 no-no. But you wouldn't know that....or maybe it's okay since it's your hero, Jay.....

Really pathetic, but now I know who you are and what you know about football. Not impressive.
That's why you will say things like:

Stop that: You DON'T know what the play was- What the read was, what the protection was... You can't make blanket statements about "He didn't even throw it to the right guy" And this goes to Jay's point in his Pissy press conference last week.

Why do I hear a little girl when I make a decent point relating to football and you say, "stop that!"?

Yeah, good point, Joe, the fact is Jay doesn't go through his progressions and either Bellamy or Holmes was right in the center of the field and the center of his vision for at least a 10 yard game, but he threw it to Alshon for a 4 yard gain....

Not a good decision by Jay.

You use that same thing for half of your points...
"Jay missed the open guy" "he stared down his target" "bad throw": I'm at work now- but I do want to find the "bad throws" that Marshall and Alshon dropped early- Short plays. Not that big of deal, in the grand scheme...but guys that have the "Cutler sucks" bend will point those out- and that pisses me off.

"I use that same thing for half my points?" Is your "I'm at work now" an excuse for not understanding what I posted and therefore, since you are at work, you are now allowed to simply misrepresent my critique? Maybe you should wait until you get off work so you can fully comprehend what I have written...

Wrong again, Joe, I didn't use that "same thing" for half my points.....Go back and read my posts. I praised Cutler for his good throws (it's right there in black and white for all to see) and I criticized his irresponsible throws and criticized his poor throws that were off target....

You told me to go back and watch the game and it was appalling at what you called "catchable balls" or "good throws." Cutler had a bad first half and I provided stats that I'm certain you turned a blind eye to that shows that he consistently has a bad first half....he's not even ranked in the top 20 QB's in the league in the first half according to NBC Sports....

Coincidence? Nope, I did my homework. Something that a "fan" like yourself doesn't do.

ALSO- TV film of the NFL is crap... You can't see the DB's and can't watch the coverages change and shift.

Wow I saw it plain as day. The safety didn't move when Jay tried to look him off (which to his credit, Jay did try to look him off) the problem was Jay threw the ball anyways and it was almost picked off...a dumb throw to anyone who isn't a hopeless Jay Cutler fan.

TV film of the NFL is crap....sometimes, but not that play, but I understand you're a Jay Cutler apologist.

Especially on deep throws- Believe it or not, Defensive players RUN TO the ball when it's thrown. And an open wr is a VERY small window. I couldn't see what the safety was doing on the deep 3rd and 28 pass. BEFORE he threw it. And neither could you...

Once again showing how little you know about football. Thanks for demonstrating this fact to the entire forum.

Jay, at the beginning of that play, tried to look off the safety, but the safety stayed home and was in easy running distance to be right there with the corner to make a better play on the ball than Alshon. The fact that Jay was trying to look the safety off proves that he KNEW that the safety was a threat, but the safety stays home and Jay throws anyhow. Again, that safety didn't make it over to assist the corner back "just in time," he was sitting there waiting. Any decent QB with the amount experience Jay has had in the NFL would have known that.

It's the type of throw that Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady would have either thrown away or thrown to the open receiver in the middle of the field since they like to do that silly QB101 thing and "go through their progressions." That's why OC's design plays with more than one receiver running routes, especially on long pass plays.

It was clear and easy to see, so go back and watch again (something you told me to do in your first less than intelligent response to my previous post, but I did and I'm glad I did). So if you think that Jay doesn't know that the safety won't run over to assist the corner on a long pass such as that, then you are proving my point for me that Jay didn't play that well in the first half.

Easy to see, but then again, you're just a Jay Cutler apologist....

What you can see is the reacted to the ball in the air- so it "looks" like double coverage when the camera and the ball all meet, but that's just not true... or we just don't know. I could be wrong too..

Uh, yeah, you're wrong. I'm glad we had this discussion. Don't worry, your buddy Jay had a fantastic 4th, but his first half was shit regardless of what type of spin you want to put on it.

EVERY QB EVERY week could have someone like you point out the "almost interceptions" I know I did with McCown last year- and yet people would say things like BUT IT wasn't intercepted- so it's ok... But they can't say that with Jay? Why?

Because McCown had 13 TD's and 1 INT's in 6 games (if you include the Washington game as a full game) and Jay Culter had 19 TD's and 12 INT's in 10 games (if you subtract the Washington game). If you extrapolate that out to them both playing 10 games, McCown would have had 26 TD's versus Jay's 19. And he would have had 1.7 interceptions to Jay's 12.

If you want to make the point that Jay played against tougher competition, I will remind you that the Redskins were killing Cutler prior to McCown coming in and damn near leading the team from behind for a win.

So your question, why did McCown "get a pass?" Because the sample size of 6 games for McCown was large enough to prove that his low interception rate was not a fluke......that's why.

1.7 interceptions compared to 12 interceptions is a sizeable, meaningful difference.....and probably cost them a few games.

 

[Wounded Bear]

Right, I get that, last year with McCown it was OK to bring up faults, but with a superstar highest paid QB in the nfl, its not ok. If the defense did not give him turnovers and a short field that game was over.

I think wounded at least established there were more than 2 bad passes. But again, these are all points that we would not even be looking for if your side simply admitted he had a bad first half. The TD ball to marshall should not have even been caught. It was not thrown where "it had to be", it was a poor throw with an exceptional effort on a hurt Marshall. So instead of admitting faults of "your" guy, you choose to call us out as haters to end the conversation.

Hopefully more guys step up here and show their displeasure in Jay when he plays badly. Pretty sure most of them just dont want to deal with this bull and arguing over stuff that is not important.

FYI, there were more than a 2 bad passes. If you have the game on tape re-watch the game.....or fast forward to the times I thoughtfully placed in my post where Jay was less than perfect.

There were at least 6 bad passes that either were uncatchable (5), 2 of which were almost picked off, or led the receiver away from his blockers (1), rendering the play ineffective, forcing them to punt.

 

[beardown07]

 

[DaSuperfan]

The bottom line is Jay was much better in the 2nd half than he was in the 1st. As WB pointed out, the stats and tape don't lie. Jay was just plain bad in the first half. The only positives he had was the last drive when he made a good decision to run 25 yards for a 1st down and the toughness he showed after taking a brutal spear-headed shot to the chest. The first TD throw to Marshall was mostly Marshall making Cutler look better than the throw. Then again, Cutler does throw it high to Marshall on purpose to give him that opportunity.

But to go into a debate and defending Jay Cutler's 1st half performance seems illogical. Why can't we all just agree that Jay wasn't sharp in the 1st half and made up for it for with a terrific 2nd half? Were there throws in the 1st half that went again Cutler? Sure, the 22 yarder to Bennett that got wiped away by the challenge and the Forte OOB play come to mind. But he had poor throws mixed in as well, noted by WB in his play by play analysis.

Right now, the fact of the matter is that Cutler has 6 TD's and 2 INT's. He's tied for 1st in the NFL with Peyton Manning in that category after 2 games. He's also 2nd in the league in completion percentage with a 68.3% rate on 87 pass attempts.

If he can continue to put up consistent stats like that, he'll be fine - but that's the key question. Can he stay consistent and play more like what we saw in the 2nd half of the Niners game rather than the 1st half?

 

[Dirk]

What I find funny is people are willing to crucify Jay and anyone who defends him for playing like shit in the 1st half of that game, but the other 10 guys on offense played just as shitty and get the free pass.

Everyone sucked ass in the first half of that game. Hell, I'm willing to bet the waterboy didn't have his best performance, thats how shit everyone was, from the HC to the qb, line, wr's and rb's. Thank the gods that the D actually managed to show up a bit otherwise it would have been beyond saving.

 

[NCChiFan]

If the ball hits you in the hands, you should catch it, two of those 6 should have been caught, I do not care where Jay threw them, both receivers had 2 hands on the ball. Brandon Marshall drops his fair share of passes and I think a healthy Alshon makes that grab as well.


I don't care if you criticize Jay or praise Jay, Jay has something to prove to all of us and it needs to start now, not tomorrow, not next week or three weeks. Now this season.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Thanks- but the debate continues... (And I truly would rather have a poster like you *without the "fucks" that looks and writes and thenTypo: should be INSTEAD of just disputes without "proof" or points- so thanks keep that up)

This is what I get for trying to be cool...more internet douchebaggery- ah, at least I know my "schoolmarm" place.
I'm:

ignorant posters such as yourself think
lame ass schoolmarm
she don't know shit. (nice touch that you threw the "she" in there)
Jay Cutler apologist #1
knows very little about football or the wide receiver position
you really don't know the game and are desperate
Anyone who played the game knows that
head up Jay's ass
Why do I hear a little girl (there's that girl thing again- what? girls can't know football?)
Jay Cutler apologist. #2
Once again showing how little you know about football.
Jay Cutler apologist #3
what type of spin you want to put on it.

Thanks- Now I know where we stand... I hope we can work on this budding relationship. GO Bears!

 

[JoeyTourettes]

So your question, why did McCown "get a pass?" Because the sample size of 6 games for McCown was large enough to prove that his low interception rate was not a fluke......that's why.

I couldn't let this one go... It's just fun: You're using 6 games of a 12 year career backup?
With 40 career starts and a career passer rating of 77.4 vs Jay's 85.0
5.0% interception rate for his career Vs 3.4% for Jay.

What makes him a better QB again?
Is it his 59.7% completion rate? Vs Jay's 61.2%
Is it his 52 TD's over Jays 161?
How about his 9,189 yards over Jay's 24,462?
Oh it must be his 4 TD's over Interception total vs Jay's 47.
Maybe it's his yards per attempt- Yep that's gotta be it: 6.6 vs 7.2
No... no.. it is his $10M contract over Jay's $121M Cause you know in the NFL they pay the Better QB less.
What a great quote! Thanks. "not a fluke"- How's that looking for Lovie? It's at 5.4% this year. But it's not a fluke right?

 

[richig07]

I still cannot see how I am bashing Cutler for crediting his receivers and Defense. I definitely did not start any bashing until the lovers leave out the bad and only remember the good.

I was corrected? I get accused of picking my stats to show he sucks, while you say he was 15-16 with 4 TD's, but leave out the first two quarters when they abandoned the run and he was a stellar 8-18 for 64 yards including the TD to marshall.

Mind you , I didnt bring any of this shit up until I was told he only missed TWO passes, (corrected that he only threw two bad balls) but he was 8-18 in the first half, but he only missed on two passes. We got lucky the lineman knocked the stupid out of him.

I keep saying, I dont hate cutler, I hate the people that teabag him all the time and cannot even say he had a shitty first half. You want to keep with all the ebonics and call me a hater. what can I do. Just admit he sucked almost the entire first half, give me that at least.

We dont need a quarterback to win games, we need one that does not give them away.

I respect you rich, you want to keep pushing the buttons and drag this out, thats ok I guess. Seems nobody else is willing to admit they thought he didnt show up til he got woke up with the hit.

Do you honestly think it's more important that a QB started a game in which the entire team played like shit 8 of 18… or that he led a comeback going 15 of 16 for 4 TD's? Especially when his two best receivers are shells of their normal selves limping around the damn field like they belong in a freaking hospital ward. My goodness.

Give me a break. Jesus.

I just… I just… I am beyond words that there are people who have ANYTHING besides praise for Cutler's performance. That's all.

I mean, my lord. We have a guy going through film and criticizing him for missing SIX passes. In a game in which he threw 4 TD's and had a 111 QB rating vs one of the best defenses through this decade thus far.

YES! No doubt the beginning was ugly on all fronts. However, good QB's ALL have had poor starts to games. It's how you make adjustments, and how you finish that separates them from the crappy to mediocre ones.

 

[richig07]

Do you honestly think it's more important that a QB started a game in which the entire team played like shit 8 of 18… or that he led a comeback going 15 of 16 for 4 TD's? Especially when his two best receivers are shells of their normal selves limping around the damn field like they belong in a freaking hospital ward. My goodness.

Give me a break. Jesus.

I just… I just… I am beyond words that there are people who have ANYTHING besides praise for Cutler's performance. That's all.

I mean, my lord. We have a guy going through film and criticizing him for missing SIX passes. In a game in which he threw 4 TD's and had a 111 QB rating vs one of the best defenses through this decade thus far.

YES! No doubt the beginning was ugly on all fronts. However, good QB's ALL have had poor starts to games. It's how you make adjustments, and how you finish that separates them from the crappy to mediocre ones.

Pardon me, 119 QB rating.

 

[anotheridiot]

Do you honestly think it's more important that a QB started a game in which the entire team played like shit 8 of 18… or that he led a comeback going 15 of 16 for 4 TD's? Especially when his two best receivers are shells of their normal selves limping around the damn field like they belong in a freaking hospital ward. My goodness.

Give me a break. Jesus.

I just… I just… I am beyond words that there are people who have ANYTHING besides praise for Cutler's performance. That's all.

I mean, my lord. We have a guy going through film and criticizing him for missing SIX passes. In a game in which he threw 4 TD's and had a 111 QB rating vs one of the best defenses through this decade thus far.

YES! No doubt the beginning was ugly on all fronts. However, good QB's ALL have had poor starts to games. It's how you make adjustments, and how you finish that separates them from the crappy to mediocre ones.

He went thru film after leo went thru film and claimed there were only two bad throws.

I guess we just need to shut up and wait til he plays like he did in the first half and gets 0 turnovers by his defense, three and out starting from inside his 20, misses receivers, and of course the bears lose. That will be your cue to blame the receivers, wrong routes, alligator arms, BMarsh brought into this domestic violence conversation, Alshons hamstring, poor GM moves of not getting a better third, fourth and fifth receiver (well, you cant pay for that when you pay a qb 22 million), maybe his insulin dosage for a night game, babies kept him awake, bad game plan, I think you guys got that down.

Bears won in spite of Jays terrible first 17 passes where he threw for a whopping, stellar 43 yards.

Bears won after Jay got the stupid knocked out of him and big play by the bear defense.

yes, we go as much as you do.

 

[beardown07]

There are so many variables that go into an offense's success besides just the QB. Against San Francisco, one variable that certainly didn't help was the poor Special Teams. Perry sucks as a returner, and apparently is a moron as well, because if you suck, you shouldn't return the opening fucking kickoff from 8 yards deep. When an offense repeatedly starts deep in their own territory, it hamstrings the playcalling and gives the opposing defense an advantage.

When you have your top 2 wideout playing with injuries, it can take half a game for the injuries to loosen up and for the adrenaline to take over.

When you have zero running game....another variable.

Excessive penalties...


etc. etc.

Bears made the necessary halftime adjustments. Everyone played more disciplined, (coaches included)and they pulled off one of the biggest comeback upsets in franchise history. EOT