Game Thread: 9ers vs Panthers

[Xponentialchaos]

We should have drafted a quarterback last draft. No idea what they were thinking rolling with these idiots this year. Yea, but let's have the highest paid backup quarterback in the league who doesn't know how to read a defense. That sounds good.

The way they handled this entire quarterback situation was optimally terrible. I honestly can't think of a way for them to have handled this any worse than how they did.

 

[purguy12]

So it's not ok for me to compare quarterback stats on the exact same team with the same offensive line and coaching staff. But it is ok for you to compare win/loss stats on teams that are vastly different? Are you not aware that there are multiple variables involved when we start looking at different teams?

1) The 49ers had an amazing defense for several years. This dominance directly helped boost "Kaepernick's" win/loss record. The Jaguars did not have the luxary of such a defense. You're essentially giving all of the credit to the quarterback for the win/loss record when the reality is that there are many components that contribute to a team's record that the quarterback has no affect on whatsoever (defense, special teams, coaching staff, offensive line, etc).

2) You're choosing to look at overall career numbers, which Kaepernick does have an advantage in. However, this uses the assumption that a quarterback will continue to be effective if they were effective in the past. As I have shown you, Kaep's number have not been consistently effective. In fact, he has consistently regressed.

2012: 98.3 passer rating, 8.32 yards per attempt
2013: 91.6 passer rating, 7.69 yards per attempt
2014: 86.4 passer rating, 7.05 yards per attempt
2015: 78.5 passer rating, 6.62 yards per attempt

3) In using career stats, you are over-emphasizing the vast difference that occurred several years ago (Kaep on a Super Bowl caliber team before defenses figured him out, and Gabbert playing terribly on a terrible Jaguars team). This vast difference from many years ago is why the career stats appear to be so skewed. When you start looking at the RECENT stats, you will see that Gabbert has clearly surpassed the regressing Kaepernick, giving us a better indicator of where they are RIGHT NOW, rather than where they were many years ago.

Like I said I will take the overall better QB(Kap) but if he isn't the next man in then give me the other better QB in Ponder. Like I said I don't care who it is, I just want to see a change at the QB position soon. I think if we get blown out by seattle we might see a change or if we lose to seattle and Dallas we will see a change. I know Kelly wants to win. Going 1-4 will add heat. He won't sit back and just let Gabbert be QB if we are losing. I think most will agree Kelly has been a nice up grade but still needs to show us some wins.

 

[purguy12]

We should have drafted a quarterback last draft. No idea what they were thinking rolling with these idiots this year. Yea, but let's have the highest paid backup quarterback in the league who doesn't know how to read a defense. That sounds good.

The way they handled this entire quarterback situation was optimally terrible. I honestly can't think of a way for them to have handled this any worse than how they did.

This I agree with you. There were some good ones on the board in the 2nd and 3rd rd. Im shocked we didn't take one. Made no sense to be Honest. Especially when we had so many picks. Same can be said about WR. U would of thought Kelly would want his own guy or that he really believes he can rebuild Kap. No clue what the excuse is to why we didn't draft one.

 

[Pattersonca65]

This I agree with you. There were some good ones on the board in the 2nd and 3rd rd. Im shocked we didn't take one. Made no sense to be Honest. Especially when we had so many picks. Same can be said about WR. U would of thought Kelly would want his own guy or that he really believes he can rebuild Kap. No clue what the excuse is to why we didn't draft one.

We should have drafted a quarterback last draft. No idea what they were thinking rolling with these idiots this year. Yea, but let's have the highest paid backup quarterback in the league who doesn't know how to read a defense. That sounds good.

The way they handled this entire quarterback situation was optimally terrible. I honestly can't think of a way for them to have handled this any worse than how they did.

I read from a recent article that the FO did not like this past draft class and thought the QBs they had on the roster were as good as anything they could have drafted. That is what they were thinking anyway. I also read they liked Goff but that went out the window when the Rams traded up to No 1. to get him

 

[purguy12]

I read from a recent article that the FO did not like this past draft class and thought the QBs they had on the roster were as good as anything they could have drafted. That is what they were thinking anyway. I also read they liked Goff but that went out the window when the Rams traded up to No 1. to get him

I can understand that but why not just take one for the hell of it in the 4th or 5th rd. What is crazy this class was suppose to be weak and this up coming class is suppose to be strong watch this class out perform next year class.

 

[Pattersonca65]

I can understand that but why not just take one for the hell of it in the 4th or 5th rd. What is crazy this class was suppose to be weak and this up coming class is suppose to be strong watch this class out perform next year class.

I agree with you. We drafted all these DBs which we can't all keep. Why not take a QB then

 

[Xponentialchaos]

Like I said I will take the overall better QB(Kap) but if he isn't the next man in then give me the other better QB in Ponder. Like I said I don't care who it is, I just want to see a change at the QB position soon. I think if we get blown out by seattle we might see a change or if we lose to seattle and Dallas we will see a change. I know Kelly wants to win. Going 1-4 will add heat. He won't sit back and just let Gabbert be QB if we are losing. I think most will agree Kelly has been a nice up grade but still needs to show us some wins.

Once again, the quarterback with the overall better career isn't necessarily the CURRENT better quarterback. You haven't even addressed this yet. If Kaepernick is better, then why was he out-played by Gabbert last year in the same exact offense? The obvious answer is that Gabbert is better.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

I read from a recent article that the FO did not like this past draft class and thought the QBs they had on the roster were as good as anything they could have drafted. That is what they were thinking anyway. I also read they liked Goff but that went out the window when the Rams traded up to No 1. to get him

The front office handled the quarterback situation as poorly as humanly possible. I don't trust their judgment when it comes to assessing talent beyond Goff.

 

[purguy12]

Once again, the quarterback with the overall better career isn't necessarily the CURRENT better quarterback. You haven't even addressed this yet. If Kaepernick is better, then why was he out-played by Gabbert last year in the same exact offense? The obvious answer is that Gabbert is better.

Did u see who the coach was last year and the OC. No need to answer because if that is what u are judging your opinion on I feel bad for you. Also Kap was playing with 3 injuries. again in the end u might be right but I will take my chances with Kap or Ponder. Kap looked just as good as Gabbert in pre season and he hasn't played in a long time. Now he has been in this offense for a little I think he will end up being better option.

Its my opinion and u can't change unless I see it on the field. U have your opinion and that is fine. U want Gabbert and I want anyone else.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

Did u see who the coach was last year and the OC. No need to answer because if that is what u are judging your opinion on I feel bad for you. Also Kap was playing with 3 injuries. again in the end u might be right but I will take my chances with Kap or Ponder. Kap looked just as good as Gabbert in pre season and he hasn't played in a long time. Now he has been in this offense for a little I think he will end up being better option.

Its my opinion and u can't change unless I see it on the field. U have your opinion and that is fine. U want Gabbert and I want anyone else.

"Did u see who the coach was last year and the OC."

I already addressed this. Kaep and Gabbert both had the same coach and offensive coordinator. You can't use this as an excuse because they both had the same shitty situation. In the same shitty situation, with the same shitty coach and the same shitty OC, Gabbert out-performed Kaepernick. And that is a fact.

"Also Kap was playing with 3 injuries."

While there is truth to this, it doesn't explain his trend. Has he been progressively getting more injured every single year? Because his effectiveness has declined the last several years in a row. His yards per attempt and passer rating have gone down every year since 2012. Why is that? Injuries? See the data below:

2012: 98.3 passer rating, 8.32 yards per attempt
2013: 91.6 passer rating, 7.69 yards per attempt
2014: 86.4 passer rating, 7.05 yards per attempt
2015: 78.5 passer rating, 6.62 yards per attempt

"Kap looked just as good as Gabbert in pre season and he hasn't played in a long time."

This is actually incorrect. Gabbert's numbers in the pre-season were clearly better than Kaepernick's.

Gabbert's yards per attempt: 6.64
Kaepernick's yard per attempt: 4.88

Gabbert's passer rating: 90.3
Kaepernick's passer rating: 67.5

If you're going to argue that Kaepernick was working with less talent on offense, I would agree. However, he was also going up against less talent on the opponent's defense. So in short, he played with back-ups against opponent's back-ups, and put up numbers that weren't as good as Gabbert's in the pre-season. That's nowhere close to what you claim, that he looked as good or better than Gabbert in the pre-season.

 

[purguy12]

"Did u see who the coach was last year and the OC."

I already addressed this. Kaep and Gabbert both had the same coach and offensive coordinator. You can't use this as an excuse because they both had the same shitty situation. In the same shitty situation, with the same shitty coach and the same shitty OC, Gabbert out-performed Kaepernick. And that is a fact.

"Also Kap was playing with 3 injuries."

While there is truth to this, it doesn't explain his trend. Has he been progressively getting more injured every single year? Because his effectiveness has declined the last several years in a row. His yards per attempt and passer rating have gone down every year since 2012. Why is that? Injuries? See the data below:

2012: 98.3 passer rating, 8.32 yards per attempt
2013: 91.6 passer rating, 7.69 yards per attempt
2014: 86.4 passer rating, 7.05 yards per attempt
2015: 78.5 passer rating, 6.62 yards per attempt

"Kap looked just as good as Gabbert in pre season and he hasn't played in a long time."

This is actually incorrect. Gabbert's numbers in the pre-season were clearly better than Kaepernick's.

Gabbert's yards per attempt: 6.64
Kaepernick's yard per attempt: 4.88

Gabbert's passer rating: 90.3
Kaepernick's passer rating: 67.5

If you're going to argue that Kaepernick was working with less talent on offense, I would agree. However, he was also going up against less talent on the opponent's defense. So in short, he played with back-ups against opponent's back-ups, and put up numbers that weren't as good as Gabbert's in the pre-season. That's nowhere close to what you claim, that he looked as good or better than Gabbert in the pre-season.

Yes but it didn't fit Kap.
I agree with you he has declined from when he came in but Gabbert has always been bad. Last time Kap had a good Oline he did ok.
In the preseason Kap looked better. That 1st game was his 1st action. Gabbert had all OTA's and 3 preseason games. 2nd game Kap played he looked good and a lot better then Gabbert.

look again its not just about Kap. We have another option with Ponder. Overall both looked better in preseason.

Your not going to change my opinion on change. Gabbert is bad and I hate watching a QB that can't throw pass 5 yards.

 

[elw4corps]

"Did u see who the coach was last year and the OC."

I already addressed this. Kaep and Gabbert both had the same coach and offensive coordinator. You can't use this as an excuse because they both had the same shitty situation. In the same shitty situation, with the same shitty coach and the same shitty OC, Gabbert out-performed Kaepernick. And that is a fact.

"Also Kap was playing with 3 injuries."

While there is truth to this, it doesn't explain his trend. Has he been progressively getting more injured every single year? Because his effectiveness has declined the last several years in a row. His yards per attempt and passer rating have gone down every year since 2012. Why is that? Injuries? See the data below:

2012: 98.3 passer rating, 8.32 yards per attempt
2013: 91.6 passer rating, 7.69 yards per attempt
2014: 86.4 passer rating, 7.05 yards per attempt
2015: 78.5 passer rating, 6.62 yards per attempt

"Kap looked just as good as Gabbert in pre season and he hasn't played in a long time."

This is actually incorrect. Gabbert's numbers in the pre-season were clearly better than Kaepernick's.

Gabbert's yards per attempt: 6.64
Kaepernick's yard per attempt: 4.88

Gabbert's passer rating: 90.3
Kaepernick's passer rating: 67.5

If you're going to argue that Kaepernick was working with less talent on offense, I would agree. However, he was also going up against less talent on the opponent's defense. So in short, he played with back-ups against opponent's back-ups, and put up numbers that weren't as good as Gabbert's in the pre-season. That's nowhere close to what you claim, that he looked as good or better than Gabbert in the pre-season.

Yo, chaos just leave it alone. don't waste your breath on him

 

[Xponentialchaos]

Yes but it didn't fit Kap.
I agree with you he has declined from when he came in but Gabbert has always been bad. Last time Kap had a good Oline he did ok.
In the preseason Kap looked better. That 1st game was his 1st action. Gabbert had all OTA's and 3 preseason games. 2nd game Kap played he looked good and a lot better then Gabbert.

look again its not just about Kap. We have another option with Ponder. Overall both looked better in preseason.

Your not going to change my opinion on change. Gabbert is bad and I hate watching a QB that can't throw pass 5 yards.

"but Gabbert has always been bad"

Gabbert was terrible when he came into the league, and a big part of that was the team he was on. But Gabbert has not regressed the way Kaepernick has. That should be obvious if you look at the data. Kaepernick was better 4 years ago. Gabbert is better now. That's what the data shows.

"In the preseason Kap looked better.

No. He didn't. These are the stats for pre-season:

Gabbert's yards per attempt: 6.64
Kaepernick's yard per attempt: 4.88

Gabbert's passer rating: 90.3
Kaepernick's passer rating: 67.5

That 1st game was his 1st action. Gabbert had all OTA's and 3 preseason games. 2nd game Kap played he looked good and a lot better then Gabbert."

So you're finding an excuse to disregard how he did in his bad game. Gotcha.

1) You're using the week 4 game where all of the players are back-ups and/or getting cut. It's not exactly what I would want to use as a data point to make any kind any kind of argument, but ok, fine.

2) If we look at that game of Kaepernick, and not his total preseason play, he had a passer rating of 78 and 6 yards per attempt. Interestingly enough, if we just look at his "good" game, we still see the trend continue.

2012 regular season: 98.3 passer rating, 8.32 yards per attempt
2013 regular season: 91.6 passer rating, 7.69 yards per attempt
2014 regular season: 86.4 passer rating, 7.05 yards per attempt
2015 regular season: 78.5 passer rating, 6.62 yards per attempt
2016 PRE SEASON WEEK 4: 78 passer rating, 6.0 yards per attempt

And this is being generous in removing his week 3 showing because...reasons. He is STILL regressing as a quarterback.

3) Gabbert only had 3 passes in the week 3 pre-season game, and he completed 2 of them for 14 yards. (By the way, Kaepernick played that game, completing 2 of 6 passes for 14 yards, and is factually worse.) If we take every Gabbert pre-season game this year, and every Kaepernick pre-season game this year, there is only one case where Kaepernick did better. Comparing Gabbert's week 3 (3 pass performance) vs Kaepernick's week 4 performance (in which he was playing against backups). If that's all your basing your argument on, you're really reaching on that one. See the pre-season stats below:

Week 1:

Gabbert 95 passer rating, 6.3 yards per attempt

Week 2:

Gabbert 89.6 passer rating, 7.67 yards per attempt

Week 3:

Gabbert 77 passer rating, 4.67 yards per attempt
Kaepernick 42.4 passer rating, 2.3 yards per attempt

Week 4:

Kaepernick 78 passer rating, 6.0 yards per attempt

"Gabbert is bad and I hate watching a QB that can't throw pass 5 yards."

It's funny that you mention that, because you're describing yet another stat that Gabbert has out-performed Kaepernick in: throwing the ball down the field.

So far this season, Gabbert has 5 passes completed for more than 20 yards.

Last year, Gabbert had 32 passes completed for more than 20 yards.
Last year, Kaepernick had 26 passes completed for more than 20 yards.

These are facts. Indisputable facts.

"Your not going to change my opinion"

Oh I don't expect to. You've shown that you're unwilling to look at actual facts. The numbers show that you're factually wrong on nearly every argument you make.

 

[Kinzu]

We should have drafted a quarterback last draft. No idea what they were thinking rolling with these idiots this year. Yea, but let's have the highest paid backup quarterback in the league who doesn't know how to read a defense. That sounds good.

The way they handled this entire quarterback situation was optimally terrible. I honestly can't think of a way for them to have handled this any worse than how they did.

Just curious who would you have drafted? Wentz was probably the best NFL QB in the draft and he went #2. Goff might be a decent QB but he went #1. Honestly no other QB in the draft do I think will make it as a starter in the league. I mean we drafted Jeff Driskel and he lost his 3rd string role to Christian Ponder who was only with us for like the last 2 or 3 weeks before final cuts were made. It was simply not a good QB draft class.

If this year goes bad though maybe we're in a position to get Deshuan Watson, DeShone Kizer, or Chad Kelly though. This upcoming QB class look better for sure.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Just curious who would you have drafted? Wentz was probably the best NFL QB in the draft and he went #2. Goff might be a decent QB but he went #1. Honestly no other QB in the draft do I think will make it as a starter in the league. I mean we drafted Jeff Driskel and he lost his 3rd string role to Christian Ponder who was only with us for like the last 2 or 3 weeks before final cuts were made. It was simply not a good QB draft class.

If this year goes bad though maybe we're in a position to get Deshuan Watson, DeShone Kizer, or Chad Kelly though. This upcoming QB class look better for sure.

Dak Prescott? Too early to well but he might in time.

 

[purguy12]

"but Gabbert has always been bad"

Gabbert was terrible when he came into the league, and a big part of that was the team he was on. But Gabbert has not regressed the way Kaepernick has. That should be obvious if you look at the data. Kaepernick was better 4 years ago. Gabbert is better now. That's what the data shows.

"In the preseason Kap looked better.

No. He didn't. These are the stats for pre-season:

Gabbert's yards per attempt: 6.64
Kaepernick's yard per attempt: 4.88

Gabbert's passer rating: 90.3
Kaepernick's passer rating: 67.5

That 1st game was his 1st action. Gabbert had all OTA's and 3 preseason games. 2nd game Kap played he looked good and a lot better then Gabbert."

So you're finding an excuse to disregard how he did in his bad game. Gotcha.

1) You're using the week 4 game where all of the players are back-ups and/or getting cut. It's not exactly what I would want to use as a data point to make any kind any kind of argument, but ok, fine.

2) If we look at that game of Kaepernick, and not his total preseason play, he had a passer rating of 78 and 6 yards per attempt. Interestingly enough, if we just look at his "good" game, we still see the trend continue.

2012 regular season: 98.3 passer rating, 8.32 yards per attempt
2013 regular season: 91.6 passer rating, 7.69 yards per attempt
2014 regular season: 86.4 passer rating, 7.05 yards per attempt
2015 regular season: 78.5 passer rating, 6.62 yards per attempt
2016 PRE SEASON WEEK 4: 78 passer rating, 6.0 yards per attempt

And this is being generous in removing his week 3 showing because...reasons. He is STILL regressing as a quarterback.

3) Gabbert only had 3 passes in the week 3 pre-season game, and he completed 2 of them for 14 yards. (By the way, Kaepernick played that game, completing 2 of 6 passes for 14 yards, and is factually worse.) If we take every Gabbert pre-season game this year, and every Kaepernick pre-season game this year, there is only one case where Kaepernick did better. Comparing Gabbert's week 3 (3 pass performance) vs Kaepernick's week 4 performance (in which he was playing against backups). If that's all your basing your argument on, you're really reaching on that one. See the pre-season stats below:

Week 1:

Gabbert 95 passer rating, 6.3 yards per attempt

Week 2:

Gabbert 89.6 passer rating, 7.67 yards per attempt

Week 3:

Gabbert 77 passer rating, 4.67 yards per attempt
Kaepernick 42.4 passer rating, 2.3 yards per attempt

Week 4:

Kaepernick 78 passer rating, 6.0 yards per attempt

"Gabbert is bad and I hate watching a QB that can't throw pass 5 yards."

It's funny that you mention that, because you're describing yet another stat that Gabbert has out-performed Kaepernick in: throwing the ball down the field.

So far this season, Gabbert has 5 passes completed for more than 20 yards.

Last year, Gabbert had 32 passes completed for more than 20 yards.
Last year, Kaepernick had 26 passes completed for more than 20 yards.

These are facts. Indisputable facts.

"Your not going to change my opinion"

Oh I don't expect to. You've shown that you're unwilling to look at actual facts. The numbers show that you're factually wrong on nearly every argument you make.

no your not looking at actually facts. We all see that. i posted the numbers and it all points to Kap. Its ok we understand u hate kap and I guess ponder because u havent mention him. its all about kap for you and that shows how much u hate him. We have options. u need to understand that.

 

[purguy12]

I had Wentz over Goff. I was never a Goff fan.

 

[purguy12]

"but Gabbert has always been bad"

Gabbert was Ifterrible when he came into the league, and a big part of that was the team he was on. But Gabbert has not regressed the way Kaepernick has. That should be obvious if you look at the data. Kaepernick was better 4 years ago. Gabbert is better now. That's what the data shows.

"In the preseason Kap looked better.

No. He didn't. These are the stats for pre-season:

Gabbert's yards per attempt: 6.64
Kaepernick's yard per attempt: 4.88

Gabbert's passer rating: 90.3
Kaepernick's passer rating: 67.5

That 1st game was his 1st action. Gabbert had all OTA's and 3 preseason games. 2nd game Kap played he looked good and a lot better then Gabbert."

So you're finding an excuse to disregard how he did in his bad game. Gotcha.

1) You're using the week 4 game where all of the players are back-ups and/or getting cut. It's not exactly what I would want to use as a data point to make any kind any kind of argument, but ok, fine.

2) If we look at that game of Kaepernick, and not his total preseason play, he had a passer rating of 78 and 6 yards per attempt. Interestingly enough, if we just look at his "good" game, we still see the trend continue.

2012 regular season: 98.3 passer rating, 8.32 yards per attempt
2013 regular season: 91.6 passer rating, 7.69 yards per attempt
2014 regular season: 86.4 passer rating, 7.05 yards per attempt
2015 regular season: 78.5 passer rating, 6.62 yards per attempt
2016 PRE SEASON WEEK 4: 78 passer rating, 6.0 yards per attempt

And this is being generous in removing his week 3 showing because...reasons. He is STILL regressing as a quarterback.

3) Gabbert only had 3 passes in the week 3 pre-season game, and he completed 2 of them for 14 yards. (By the way, Kaepernick played that game, completing 2 of 6 passes for 14 yards, and is factually worse.) If we take every Gabbert pre-season game this year, and every Kaepernick pre-season game this year, there is only one case where Kaepernick did better. Comparing Gabbert's week 3 (3 pass performance) vs Kaepernick's week 4 performance (in which he was playing against backups). If that's all your basing your argument on, you're really reaching on that one. See the pre-season stats below:

Week 1:

Gabbert 95 passer rating, 6.3 yards per attempt

Week 2:

Gabbert 89.6 passer rating, 7.67 yards per attempt

Week 3:

Gabbert 77 passer rating, 4.67 yards per attempt
Kaepernick 42.4 passer rating, 2.3 yards per attempt

Week 4:

Kaepernick 78 passer rating, 6.0 yards per attempt

"Gabbert is bad and I hate watching a QB that can't throw pass 5 yards."

It's funny that you mention that, because you're describing yet another stat that Gabbert has out-performed Kaepernick in: throwing the ball down the field.

So far this season, Gabbert has 5 passes completed for more than 20 yards.

Last year, Gabbert had 32 passes completed for more than 20 yards.
Last year, Kaepernick had 26 passes completed for more than 20 yards.

These are facts. Indisputable facts.

"Your not going to change my opinion"

Oh I don't expect to. You've shown that you're unwilling to look at actual facts. The numbers show that you're factually wrong on nearly every argument you make.

U take 1 year and say its a fact. I rather say Career and its more of a Main Fact. We are both playing with numbers. U are giving 1 chapter of a story im giving you the whole book. Give me the whole book. U pick and choose your numbers. thats like me saying Andrew luck is the worst QB after last year. U see how silly that is because of 1 year. Now I will also admit Im not a luck fan but he isnt the worst QB in the league.

 

[Cut My Red I Bleed Gold]

U take 1 year and say its a fact. I rather say Career and its more of a Main Fact. We are both playing with numbers. U are giving 1 chapter of a story im giving you the whole book. Give me the whole book. U pick and choose your numbers. thats like me saying Andrew luck is the worst QB after last year. U see how silly that is because of 1 year. Now I will also admit Im not a luck fan but he isnt the worst QB in the league.

Luck...dare to dream...we should be so LUCKy. (whaaamp whaaaamp)

 

[deep9er]

I can understand that but why not just take one for the hell of it in the 4th or 5th rd. What is crazy this class was suppose to be weak and this up coming class is suppose to be strong watch this class out perform next year class.

because we shouldn't draft any QB "for the hell of it". that is forcing a QB and not the way to approach it.

i'm certainly ok drafting a QB and even trade up if necessary, but this isn't the right thinking.