Game Thread: 9ers vs Panthers

[deep9er]

Dak Prescott? Too early to well but he might in time.

i said this during week following the draft.

ok, i know it doesn't mean chit now. :-(

 

[Pattersonca65]

i said this during week following the draft.

ok, i know it doesn't mean chit now. :-(

I don't follow college ball but was wondering about him. Why not take a shot?

 

[Xponentialchaos]

Just curious who would you have drafted? Wentz was probably the best NFL QB in the draft and he went #2. Goff might be a decent QB but he went #1. Honestly no other QB in the draft do I think will make it as a starter in the league. I mean we drafted Jeff Driskel and he lost his 3rd string role to Christian Ponder who was only with us for like the last 2 or 3 weeks before final cuts were made. It was simply not a good QB draft class.

If this year goes bad though maybe we're in a position to get Deshuan Watson, DeShone Kizer, or Chad Kelly though. This upcoming QB class look better for sure.

Goff or Wentz would have been ideal obviously, but I was realistically hoping for someone like Paxton Lynch or Dak. Not sure if they hit or not, but I figured we just HAD to try something instead of continuing with these idiots.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

no your not looking at actually facts. We all see that. i posted the numbers and it all points to Kap. Its ok we understand u hate kap and I guess ponder because u havent mention him. its all about kap for you and that shows how much u hate him. We have options. u need to understand that.

Huh? How are these not facts? The data I gave you is indisputable. You can look it up yourself.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

U take 1 year and say its a fact. I rather say Career and its more of a Main Fact. We are both playing with numbers. U are giving 1 chapter of a story im giving you the whole book. Give me the whole book. U pick and choose your numbers. thats like me saying Andrew luck is the worst QB after last year. U see how silly that is because of 1 year. Now I will also admit Im not a luck fan but he isnt the worst QB in the league.

Last year's data IS factual data.

I'm looking at recent factual data. You're looking at data from several years ago and ignoring Kaepernick's downward trend.

Fine, let's look at the "whole book" that is Kaepernick's career.

1) Explain to me why Kaepernick's effectiveness has gotten worse every single year since 2012. I've shown you this data multiple times. It is a fact that his passer rating and yards per attempt have gotten worse each year.

2) Furthermore, provide me with any shred of evidence that you have that would suggest that this downward trend will not continue. Because the factual data will show that he didn't do well in pre-season. In fact, he got worse, even when you throw away his first game back and focus only on his game playing against back-up scrubs. He still regressed compared to how poorly he did last year.

3) Explain to me why Gabbert was able to out-play Kaepernick last year if Kaepernick is so much better. You can't blame the coach, you can't blame the OC. Gabbert stepped right into the same system without much experience and straight-up played better than Kaepernick in every single category.

4) Do you really believe that the better quarterback with the better career is always the better CURRENT quarterback. Yes or no?

The book started out very promising and it has gradually gotten worse and worse.

 

[purguy12]

because we shouldn't draft any QB "for the hell of it". that is forcing a QB and not the way to approach it.

i'm certainly ok drafting a QB and even trade up if necessary, but this isn't the right thinking.

Well that is what some of these teams did. Look at Dallas, look at the Pats and some other teams that drafted a QB. Some didn't even need one. We had our options and tons of picks.

 

[darken65]

Last year's data IS factual data.

I'm looking at recent factual data. You're looking at data from several years ago and ignoring Kaepernick's downward trend.

Fine, let's look at the "whole book" that is Kaepernick's career.

1) Explain to me why Kaepernick's effectiveness has gotten worse every single year since 2012. I've shown you this data multiple times. It is a fact that his passer rating and yards per attempt have gotten worse each year.

2) Furthermore, provide me with any shred of evidence that you have that would suggest that this downward trend will not continue. Because the factual data will show that he didn't do well in pre-season. In fact, he got worse, even when you throw away his first game back and focus only on his game playing against back-up scrubs. He still regressed compared to how poorly he did last year.

3) Explain to me why Gabbert was able to out-play Kaepernick last year if Kaepernick is so much better. You can't blame the coach, you can't blame the OC. Gabbert stepped right into the same system without much experience and straight-up played better than Kaepernick in every single category.

4) Do you really believe that the better quarterback with the better career is always the better CURRENT quarterback. Yes or no?

The book started out very promising and it has gradually gotten worse and worse.

Warner talks Kap development and QB vs. athlete
Article from last year when he trained with Kurt Warner. It was then that I finally knew there was no real hope for Kap to progress. Kurt says some nice things but you just have to read between the lines.

 

[purguy12]

Goff or Wentz would have been ideal obviously, but I was realistically hoping for someone like Paxton Lynch or Dak. Not sure if they hit or not, but I figured we just HAD to try something instead of continuing with these idiots.

I agree I liked Lynch or Dak. I also agree why not draft a QB and let him compete with these guys. This week we will see how Kessler looks.

 

[purguy12]

Last year's data IS factual data.

I'm looking at recent factual data. You're looking at data from several years ago and ignoring Kaepernick's downward trend.

Fine, let's look at the "whole book" that is Kaepernick's career.

1) Explain to me why Kaepernick's effectiveness has gotten worse every single year since 2012. I've shown you this data multiple times. It is a fact that his passer rating and yards per attempt have gotten worse each year.

2) Furthermore, provide me with any shred of evidence that you have that would suggest that this downward trend will not continue. Because the factual data will show that he didn't do well in pre-season. In fact, he got worse, even when you throw away his first game back and focus only on his game playing against back-up scrubs. He still regressed compared to how poorly he did last year.

3) Explain to me why Gabbert was able to out-play Kaepernick last year if Kaepernick is so much better. You can't blame the coach, you can't blame the OC. Gabbert stepped right into the same system without much experience and straight-up played better than Kaepernick in every single category.

4) Do you really believe that the better quarterback with the better career is always the better CURRENT quarterback. Yes or no?

The book started out very promising and it has gradually gotten worse and worse.

1) The team has got worse , Oline got really bad the last 2 years and we had a bad HC and OC last year. QBs are allowed to have bad years. Also throw in 3 injuries last year.
2) I have provided multiple evidence and not going to post all that crap again. I gave you the numbers. go look at past posts. That 2nd game for Kap in the preseason showed me he was better then Gabbert.
3) Kap was hurt and had a bad OC and HC. Yes Gabbert did to but Kap just wasn't comfortable and just had a bad year just like QBs do. Just ask Luck.
4)In most cases yes. In this case 100%. proof is in the pudding. Its not like Im talking about year 1 and year 15 of a QB. We all know manning was done but the sad thing he would be an upgrade for us right now. Kap was good had down year 2 years ago and last year was bad but he had to deal with injuries, bad coaching and bad oline. It wasn't a good fit for him. Chip Kelly offense might be the answer. There is a reason Kelly is keeping him and is our #2 QB. Kelly himself even mention Kap is almost there and just needs to continue to get into football snap. That sounds like he is waiting for him to be ready before he puts him in.

Now I agree he has regressed. I never said he hasn't. i never said he was a great QB. I just think Kap and Ponder are better options. I hope this helps you. Cant do much more for you. I might be wrong on all this but I'm willing to take the a chance and to make a change.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

Warner talks Kap development and QB vs. athlete
Article from last year when he trained with Kurt Warner. It was then that I finally knew there was no real hope for Kap to progress. Kurt says some nice things but you just have to read between the lines.

"That's where I think Colin was. He allowed his athleticism to carry him for so long, and now he's in the NFL, and he's starting to see it is catching up to him a little bit, he can't do all the running."

Yup, I agree. He has completely ignored the mental side of the game, relying entirely on his athleticism. And to his credit, it got him to where he is. He did well in college and he did well when he first started in the NFL, but his deficiencies caught up to him.

I think the "athlete" title is why people continue to hold on to the "potential" they think he has. Just like when Lawrence Okoye tried out for the team. Both Okoye and Kaepernick, while good athletes, have no business being in this league. My $0.02.

 

[darken65]

1) The team has got worse , Oline got really bad the last 2 years and we had a bad HC and OC last year. QBs are allowed to have bad years. Also throw in 3 injuries last year.
2) I have provided multiple evidence and not going to post all that crap again. I gave you the numbers. go look at past posts. That 2nd game for Kap in the preseason showed me he was better then Gabbert.
3) Kap was hurt and had a bad OC and HC. Yes Gabbert did to but Kap just wasn't comfortable and just had a bad year just like QBs do. Just ask Luck.
4)In most cases yes. In this case 100%. proof is in the pudding. Its not like Im talking about year 1 and year 15 of a QB. We all know manning was done but the sad thing he would be an upgrade for us right now. Kap was good had down year 2 years ago and last year was bad but he had to deal with injuries, bad coaching and bad oline. It wasn't a good fit for him. Chip Kelly offense might be the answer. There is a reason Kelly is keeping him and is our #2 QB. Kelly himself even mention Kap is almost there and just needs to continue to get into football snap. That sounds like he is waiting for him to be ready before he puts him in.

Now I agree he has regressed. I never said he hasn't. i never said he was a great QB. I just think Kap and Ponder are better options. I hope this helps you. Cant do much more for you. I might be wrong on all this but I'm willing to take the a chance and to make a change.

Everybody know your stance on Kap. Explain why Ponder would be better than Gabbert?

 

[darken65]

I agree I liked Lynch or Dak. I also agree why not draft a QB and let him compete with these guys. This week we will see how Kessler looks.

Didn't you have a thing for Goff last year?

 

[purguy12]

Everybody know your stance on Kap. Explain why Ponder would be better than Gabbert?

again I showed the numbers he has been a better QB and to be honest I just want to see a change soon. I don't care who it is. I don't care if u became the QB. The whole time I been saying this. its not about Kap. I think we will see change soon unless Gabbert shocks me and improves big time and we win the next game or 2.

 

[purguy12]

Didn't you have a thing for Goff last year?

I wasn't big on this class.
No. In the draft poll I picked Buckner. I said I would be ok with Goff but wasn't thrilled with this class. Go check back in the NFL draft poll. I wasn't sold On wentz. Go look at thread some good reads what people posted.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

1) The team has got worse , Oline got really bad the last 2 years and we had a bad HC and OC last year. QBs are allowed to have bad years. Also throw in 3 injuries last year.
2) I have provided multiple evidence and not going to post all that crap again. I gave you the numbers. go look at past posts. That 2nd game for Kap in the preseason showed me he was better then Gabbert.
3) Kap was hurt and had a bad OC and HC. Yes Gabbert did to but Kap just wasn't comfortable and just had a bad year just like QBs do. Just ask Luck.
4)In most cases yes. In this case 100%. proof is in the pudding. Its not like Im talking about year 1 and year 15 of a QB. We all know manning was done but the sad thing he would be an upgrade for us right now. Kap was d is our #2 QB. Kelly himself even mention Kap is almost there and just needs to continue to get into football snap. That sounds like he is waiting for him to be ready before he puts him in.

Now I agree he has regressed. I never said he hasn't. i never said he was a great QB. I just think Kap and Ponder are better options. I hope this helps you. Cant do much more for you. I might be wrong on all this but I'm willing to take the a chance and to make a change.

"1) The team has got worse"

And absolutely none of that goes to any blame whatsoever on the quarterback? You're blaming the team entirely and not the quarterback at all? With the same shitty team, Gabbert out-performed Kaepernick. Why is it that we saw instant improvement when the quarterback was switched out? That tells me the quarterback was a big part of the problem, especially when someone like Blaine fucking Gabbert is such an obvious improvement in the team's offense.

"2) I have provided multiple evidence and not going to post all that crap again. I gave you the numbers. go look at past posts. That 2nd game for Kap in the preseason showed me he was better then Gabbert."

I'm going to put the quarterback performances in order of how good they were with the numbers to back them up so you can see what I'm talking about.

1) Gabbert 95 passer rating, 6.3 yards per attempt (Week 1)
2) Gabbert 89.6 passer rating, 7.67 yards per attempt (Week 2)
3) Kaepernick 78 passer rating, 6.0 yards per attempt (Week 4)
4) Gabbert 77 passer rating, 4.67 yards per attempt (Week 4)
5) Kaepernick 42.4 passer rating, 2.3 yards per attempt (Week 3)

The numbers clearly show that Gabbert had the best 2 games in the preseason. The only game that Kaepernick beat Gabbert in was when you compare Kaep's week 4 performance to Gabbert's week 3 performance. Mind you, Gabbert only threw the ball 3 times in week 3.

So again, what exactly are you looking at to say that Kaepernick did better than Gabbert in the preseason? Gabbert has the better overall preseason performance and Gabbert also has the better individual preseason games when you put them all in order like I showed you. Kaepernick's week 3 performance, while certainly his best performance (and against backup scrubs), still wasn't any better than what Gabbert had done.

Furthermore, Kaepernick's stats have once again regressed since last year. Are you going to blame the team again for his shortcomings? Because Gabbert hasn't regressed.

3) "Kap just wasn't comfortable and just had a bad year just like QBs do."

Just one bad year? He looked pretty damn mediocre to me in 2014 as well. In 2015, Kaepernick was 31st in the league in passer rating among qualified quarterbacks. (Gabbert was 27th). In 2014, Kaepernick was 20th in passer rating. His 2014 season efficiency stats are about even with what Gabbert did in 2015 (yards per attempt and passer rating), and nobody is exactly blown away by what Gabbert did last year. That's two shitty years and an obvious trend throughout the last 4 years.

4) "In most cases yes."

Good, you at least acknowledge that better career does not always imply better currently. Therefore it is not definitively proof of your point if you're pointing out their career stats.

5) "Now I agree he has regressed. I might be wrong on all this but I'm willing to take the a chance and to make a change."

Finally something we agree on, sort of. I want change as well. But change is exactly what Gabbert is and what Kaepernick isn't. We've gone several years with Kaepernick only to see him regress and show no growth in the mental side of the game. HE'S NOT THE ANSWER. With his regression, why would we want to go back to him? Why not give someone else a chance? Gabbert has only been starting for half a season. I'd rather give him more of a chance than I would want to go back to the same regressing quarterback that is Kaepernick. Granted Gabbert isn't the answer either, and neither is Ponder, but they both have less experience in our system than Kaepernick does, and we know exactly what we're going to get from him.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

again I showed the numbers he has been a better QB and to be honest I just want to see a change soon. I don't care who it is. I don't care if u became the QB. The whole time I been saying this. its not about Kap. I think we will see change soon unless Gabbert shocks me and improves big time and we win the next game or 2.

It's odd because you weren't asking for a change last year when Kaepernick was absolutely terrible. Why is that?

 

[Ricky Roma]

It's odd because you weren't asking for a change last year when Kaepernick was absolutely terrible. Why is that?

It's called 'Heads I win, tails you lose.' The fact that anyone can push this back on him, and he ignores it is troubling.....from a mental health aspect.

Someone who keeps trotting out 'career' stats, but excludes stats that make a career, ie last year, shouldn't be taken seriously. Someone who complains about how the 'team got worse' when A) one QB has pretty much always been on a bad team as opposed to the other and B) played on pretty much the same team (last year...you know...the year that can't be used in comparison) and still outperformed the other, shouldn't be taken seriously.

I can go on and on, but this is '2+2=....' and he comes up with anything but '4.'

 

[purguy12]

"1) The team has got worse"

And absolutely none of that goes to any blame whatsoever on the quarterback? You're blaming the team entirely and not the quarterback at all? With the same shitty team, Gabbert out-performed Kaepernick. Why is it that we saw instant improvement when the quarterback was switched out? That tells me the quarterback was a big part of the problem, especially when someone like Blaine fucking Gabbert is such an obvious improvement in the team's offense.

"2) I have provided multiple evidence and not going to post all that crap again. I gave you the numbers. go look at past posts. That 2nd game for Kap in the preseason showed me he was better then Gabbert."

I'm going to put the quarterback performances in order of how good they were with the numbers to back them up so you can see what I'm talking about.

1) Gabbert 95 passer rating, 6.3 yards per attempt (Week 1)
2) Gabbert 89.6 passer rating, 7.67 yards per attempt (Week 2)
3) Kaepernick 78 passer rating, 6.0 yards per attempt (Week 4)
4) Gabbert 77 passer rating, 4.67 yards per attempt (Week 4)
5) Kaepernick 42.4 passer rating, 2.3 yards per attempt (Week 3)

The numbers clearly show that Gabbert had the best 2 games in the preseason. The only game that Kaepernick beat Gabbert in was when you compare Kaep's week 4 performance to Gabbert's week 3 performance. Mind you, Gabbert only threw the ball 3 times in week 3.

So again, what exactly are you looking at to say that Kaepernick did better than Gabbert in the preseason? Gabbert has the better overall preseason performance and Gabbert also has the better individual preseason games when you put them all in order like I showed you. Kaepernick's week 3 performance, while certainly his best performance (and against backup scrubs), still wasn't any better than what Gabbert had done.

Furthermore, Kaepernick's stats have once again regressed since last year. Are you going to blame the team again for his shortcomings? Because Gabbert hasn't regressed.

3) "Kap just wasn't comfortable and just had a bad year just like QBs do."

Just one bad year? He looked pretty damn mediocre to me in 2014 as well. In 2015, Kaepernick was 31st in the league in passer rating among qualified quarterbacks. (Gabbert was 27th). In 2014, Kaepernick was 20th in passer rating. His 2014 season efficiency stats are about even with what Gabbert did in 2015 (yards per attempt and passer rating), and nobody is exactly blown away by what Gabbert did last year. That's two shitty years and an obvious trend throughout the last 4 years.

4) "In most cases yes."

Good, you at least acknowledge that better career does not always imply better currently. Therefore it is not definitively proof of your point if you're pointing out their career stats.

5) "Now I agree he has regressed. I might be wrong on all this but I'm willing to take the a chance and to make a change."

Finally something we agree on, sort of. I want change as well. But change is exactly what Gabbert is and what Kaepernick isn't. We've gone several years with Kaepernick only to see him regress and show no growth in the mental side of the game. HE'S NOT THE ANSWER. With his regression, why would we want to go back to him? Why not give someone else a chance? Gabbert has only been starting for half a season. I'd rather give him more of a chance than I would want to go back to the same regressing quarterback that is Kaepernick. Granted Gabbert isn't the answer either, and neither is Ponder, but they both have less experience in our system than Kaepernick does, and we know exactly what we're going to get from him.

Just throwing something out there for you. U posted preseason stats. Anything catch your eye.

1) Gabbert 95 passer rating, 6.3 yards per attempt (Week 1)
2) Gabbert 89.6 passer rating, 7.67 yards per attempt (Week 2)
3) Kaepernick 78 passer rating, 6.0 yards per attempt (Week 4)
4) Gabbert 77 passer rating, 4.67 yards per attempt (Week 4)
5) Kaepernick 42.4 passer rating, 2.3 yards per attempt (Week 3)

I notice Gabbert regressed each week and Kap got better in the offense.

 

[purguy12]

It's odd because you weren't asking for a change last year when Kaepernick was absolutely terrible. Why is that?

Because I knew the team sucked and it didnt matter. I also said we should cut Kap and draft a QB.

THis team can actually be decent this year.

 

[purguy12]

Well I hope I helped you guys. Facts are Facts its tough to get. I posted them multiple times and I think we are starting to get some where. Its not a big deal we all know your hatred for Kap and it shows. At least Im starting to make you understand the situation and that is a plus. Im not going to give up on you. Hang in there and lets see what happens the rest of the way.

Lets Go 49ers.