49ers OTAs / Training Camp

[darken65]

Sure. That's entirely fair. I just want him to be a great passer today, not three years from now. Is that really so much to ask?

Not too much to ask really. The 9ers' window to win the SB is getting smaller IMO and we just can't wait years for Kap to come around and begin to read defenses, go through reads on his WRs and learn how to put some touch on the ball. This is a NOW situation for Kap.

 

[whysies]

Not too much to ask really. The 9ers' window to win the SB is getting smaller IMO and we just can't wait years for Kap to come around and begin to read defenses, go through reads on his WRs and learn how to put some touch on the ball. This is a NOW situation for Kap.

Definitely

There is just way too much talent on this offense to not be top 10 at the very least (baring injury). And honestly they should be top 3-5, IMO. The roster is pretty stacked across the board. It's all on Kap this year.

 

[dredinis21]

Definitely

There is just way too much talent on this offense to not be top 10 at the very least (baring injury). And honestly they should be top 3-5, IMO. The roster is pretty stacked across the board. It's all on Kap this year.

This roster is STACKED in a way I can't remember since the Walsh years. This is somewhat boom or bust for Kap bc if you can't perform with one of the best OL, the best WR corps, a DEEP RB group, and one of the best TEs in the game, then you shouldn't be starting in the NFL.

 

[badazzk9]

This roster is STACKED in a way I can't remember since the Walsh years. This is somewhat boom or bust for Kap bc if you can't perform with one of the best OL, the best WR corps, a DEEP RB group, and one of the best TEs in the game, then you shouldn't be starting in the NFL.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Not too much to ask really. The 9ers' window to win the SB is getting smaller IMO and we just can't wait years for Kap to come around and begin to read defenses, go through reads on his WRs and learn how to put some touch on the ball. This is a NOW situation for Kap.

It depends. The size of that window is in direct proportion to Kap's play. If he doesn't elevate his play, then yes, the window is probably closing. If he does, that window could be wide open for a long time.

I know a lot of people think our window is closing. I don't necessarily see it. Sure, we have some older players who have played key roles in our recent success, and Kap is going to start to eat big chunks of our cap space. But we have young guys stepping in. Just this year, we very arguably landed one of the top two or three players in the draft at S/NB, RB, C, and ILB. To date, those guys have shown pretty well in practice (though jury is very much out on Martin due to whatever injury he's been dealing with). Aldon is young, Reid is young, Brock is young, Bowman is in his prime. These guys have the talent to be or already are impact players (not sold on Brock as an "impact player," per se, but solid starter at least) who can form the backbone of our D going forward. Then we've got young guys like the rookies, Tank, Dial, Lemonier, and Morris who have been looking pretty good lately. The OL is young, our OTs are locked up, and we've got youth at RB and WR. The biggest question really is losing Vernon, as he's so darn hard to replace. But if our QB and WR play gets better, we shouldn't miss a beat.

 

[Jtymer49er]

If u ask me, our window is open as long as Jim Harbaugh is the head coach.

 

[NinerSickness]

I don't think the Super Bowl window is closing at all. In fact, I think Baalke has set up the team to be a contender for the next 5 to 7 years, but I also think he's been reluctant to make a push to get the last piece or 2 in FA / trade in order to solidify the team's chances (like not signing a CB this offseason - Revis, not signing a CB last offseason - DRC - Not signing Mike Wallace in 2011 offseason / not trading for Steve Smith when he was on the block in 2012...

Thus the thread:

http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/san-francisco-49ers/142087-trent-baalke-andy-reid-2-0-a-9.html

 

[zman1527]

This roster is STACKED in a way I can't remember since the Walsh years. This is somewhat boom or bust for Kap bc if you can't perform with one of the best OL, the best WR corps, a DEEP RB group, and one of the best TEs in the game, then you shouldn't be starting in the NFL.

Not so sure about your high rankings for the WR and the RB group. We have lost 2-3 rb, and now are looking to Gore, who still seems to have it but runs down every season which is only likely to get worse if we use him as much, and a rookie. WR are good, but are they great? We don't have a game breaker in there that I know of, mostly tough possesion guys. A really good group but not the best. I hope one of the youngs ones steps up with speed and proves me wrong. Hasn't happened yet.

 

[tomikcon1971]

I hate the Super Bowl window analogy. We should never settle for a window of time. It should be the standard every year for a first class organization. We're not Cleveland for Pete's sake.

Keep he pipeline full of good players as others move on, retire, get injured, etc.

Always strive to get better. Every year.

 

[dredinis21]

Not so sure about your high rankings for the WR and the RB group. We have lost 2-3 rb, and now are looking to Gore, who still seems to have it but runs down every season which is only likely to get worse if we use him as much, and a rookie. WR are good, but are they great? We don't have a game breaker in there that I know of, mostly tough possesion guys. A really good group but not the best. I hope one of the youngs ones steps up with speed and proves me wrong. Hasn't happened yet.

Its only my opinion, but Crabtree is a legit #1 when healthy, although not a game breaker. Boldin is an above average #2 and Stevie Johnson is an above average #3, with all three being able to interchange in terms of X, Y, Z. With young talent and a seasoned Lloyd, you would be hard pressed to find a DEEPER WR corps then the Niners. Gore is still Gore until proven otherwise and Hyde was considered the best RB in the draft by many. Given the relatively short time we see RBs acclimate to the NFL, it isn't crazy to think he would get some love. LMJ is a change of pace back and if Lattimore gets healthy, we got ourselves an impressive stable of backs.

 

[tomikcon1971]

Our O should make a big jump this year, barring a plane crash or Aldon driving the team bus.

 

[purguy12]

49ers has the most stacked roster in the NFL. Window is wide open.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Not so sure about your high rankings for the WR and the RB group. We have lost 2-3 rb, and now are looking to Gore, who still seems to have it but runs down every season which is only likely to get worse if we use him as much, and a rookie. WR are good, but are they great? We don't have a game breaker in there that I know of, mostly tough possesion guys. A really good group but not the best. I hope one of the youngs ones steps up with speed and proves me wrong. Hasn't happened yet.

Re: the rookie backing up Gore, rookies can make an impact at RB faster than pretty much any other position. We're still in good shape at that spot, though losing Hunter certainly hurts, and Lattimore is looking far less certain.

 

[NinerSickness]

I hate the Super Bowl window analogy. We should never settle for a window of time. It should be the standard every year for a first class organization.

That sounds nice, but is has no basis in reality. Some years are simply rebuilding years, and you have to treat them as such or you'll never get back to that "Super Bowl window." See the Redskins of the 2001 - 2011 decade for evidence of that.

 

[tomikcon1971]

That sounds nice, but is has no basis in reality. Some years are simply rebuilding years, and you have to treat them as such or you'll never get back to that "Super Bowl window." See the Redskins of the 2001 - 2011 decade for evidence of that.

Defining a window breeds complacency....I get that there will be years that aren't realistic (primarily injuries or poor drafting) but I don't accept the pre-emptive planning of championship windows.

 

[NinerSickness]

Defining a window breeds complacency....I get that there will be years that aren't realistic (primarily injuries or poor drafting) but I don't accept the pre-emptive planning of championship windows.

You don't? You think any team can just become a SB contender in one offseason regardless of their salary cap, age, contract status of players and so on? It usually takes at least 3 "rebuilding" years to even have a realistic shot of winning the big one. They don't come out & admit they're rebuilding, but that doesn't mean rebuilding isn't exactly what they're doing.

Isn't Dallas a "class organization?" They have 5 SB titles. They have a Billion-dollar stadium and the largest fan base in football. They're not winning the Super Bowl this year. They would be lucky to go 8-8. And if they went out & tried to load up for this season they would be robbing themselves of potential, future title runs (although those runs probably won't happen anyway with Jerry at the helm).

I know what you're saying about complacency. That's a real risk, and some teams seem like they've given up before the season even starts. But even if you have great coaching & management to prevent that, you also have to have the right players; and they have to be peaking at the right time (and you have to be lucky). If any of those factors are lacking you're not going to win a Super Bowl. Luckily, the 49ers are not in one of those years; but they have been in the past.

 

[Rvnight18]

I don't believe that you have to plan for "windows". If you find a franchise QB, very hard to do, I think you can manage a team to have a window for 10-15 years. That's a large window. But it takes a great FO to accomplish this. As long as a FO values the draft and understands and foresees players leaving and they plan accordingly, you can be a contender for years. It's very hard to do, that's why most can't do it. But I love how the FO goes about the draft. And I can't wait to see some of this young talent step in. We have drafted more guys in the past two years than any other team I believe. And because we have a roster that's hard to crack, we can gamble on guys like Tank, Dial, Thomas, Lattimore. And with so many draft picks we can trade for players like Boldin, Stevie, and so on. If Kap, and it's an IF, progresses and becomes what he is capable of, I have no doubt we will be contenders for 10+ years. But Kap HAS to progress.

 

[purguy12]

Tank is coming. Watch out NFL. He is killing it at camp. McDonald might become a back up. Tank is a beast.

 

[deep9er]

I don't believe that you have to plan for "windows". If you find a franchise QB, very hard to do, I think you can manage a team to have a window for 10-15 years. That's a large window. But it takes a great FO to accomplish this. As long as a FO values the draft and understands and foresees players leaving and they plan accordingly, you can be a contender for years. It's very hard to do, that's why most can't do it. But I love how the FO goes about the draft. And I can't wait to see some of this young talent step in. We have drafted more guys in the past two years than any other team I believe. And because we have a roster that's hard to crack, we can gamble on guys like Tank, Dial, Thomas, Lattimore. And with so many draft picks we can trade for players like Boldin, Stevie, and so on. If Kap, and it's an IF, progresses and becomes what he is capable of, I have no doubt we will be contenders for 10+ years. But Kap HAS to progress.

its clear you're saying 10-15 years is hard to do, but not so sure if you're saying these 49ers has some kind of chance? is likely to? not likely to? tend to think you mean 'not likely' cause Kaep needs to progress?

soon as your team gets good, good players want more money or leave for more money. So the 'window' is the period where you make an extra push to retain these guys. these are the extensions that have been going on of late. it also includes bringing in a few key FA's.

yes, solid drafting helps relive this pressure, but it is hard to sustain this good team, drafting at the tail end.

it is hard to find a solid FO by itself, one that stays together 10-15 years? then it is hard to maintain a quality coaching staff 10-15 years? then as you note, it isn't easy to obtain and keep a franchise QB, 10-15 years? when Peyton Manning was with the Colts, was his window 10 years? has Brady's window been open since his first SB appearance? these examples seem to be the closest.

 

[deep9er]

Defining a window breeds complacency....I get that there will be years that aren't realistic (primarily injuries or poor drafting) but I don't accept the pre-emptive planning of championship windows.

of course you always want to win the SB, whether its realistic or not?

IMO a 'window' is when you have a realistic chance of winning the SB. not just a good season, not just make the play-offs, but a good chance of winning it. it doesn't mean scrap the team and rebuild again, teams are always trying to improve and that doesn't change.