Series Thread: 2nd Round: Cleveland Cavs vs Toronto Raptors

[WiggyRuss]

If you guys want a good read, check out this thread from the beginning of last year's playoffs. Full of stuff about how LeBron is declining, Love is garbage, Cavs are better without Kyrie, LeBron will never win a title in Cle, etc, etc, etc.

LOL.....the best, from tlance of course:

"Time will tell if this core is good enough to win a title, but my guess is no. Kyrie is the main reason why."

lol....only has possibly the biggest shot in the history of the NBA after dominating Curry in the Finals....lol. And they wonder why we take such enjoyment in the Cavs serving soggy shit sandwiches all around.

 

[trojanfan12]

Something tells me that to you any success by the Cavs will always be about the other team sucking.

And something tells me that every time someone says the East just isn't very good, Cavs fans are going to say it's just haters hating.

The fact of the matter is, the East is weak and the Cavs are pretty much head and shoulders above the rest of the East. That's not their fault and an argument can be made that some teams in the East aren't even trying and rather just waiting for Lebron to get old and/or retire.

Fair or not, the East isn't very good and a certain amount of the Cavs success is because of that. Folks pointing it out isn't necessarily just hate or not wanting to give the Cavs credit. There's a reason the Cavs are overwhelmingly the team that is picked to come out of the East and it isn't because the East is such a competitive conference.

The Cavs are a very good team, but the true test of how good they are will come in the finals. Not in the Eastern Conference playoffs.

 

[gordontrue]

And something tells me that every time someone says the East just isn't very good, Cavs fans are going to say it's just haters hating.

The fact of the matter is, the East is weak and the Cavs are pretty much head and shoulders above the rest of the East. That's not their fault and an argument can be made that some teams in the East aren't even trying and rather just waiting for Lebron to get old and/or retire.

Fair or not, the East isn't very good and a certain amount of the Cavs success is because of that. Folks pointing it out isn't necessarily just hate or not wanting to give the Cavs credit. There's a reason the Cavs are overwhelmingly the team that is picked to come out of the East and it isn't because the East is such a competitive conference.

The Cavs are a very good team, but the true test of how good they are will come in the final. Not in the Eastern Conference playoffs.

Nah, I say the East isn't very good, myself, all the time.

There's a huge difference between that and the posts I quoted from Dorian.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah but I think their mindset totally change if they win a game in Cleveland. Getting completely outplayed is not helping them at all. After last night game, they probably had deja vu and had flashbacks to last year

And that's the problem. It's going to take winning a game in Cleveland for them to even begin to believe. But to win a game in Cleveland, they have to believe.

 

[WiggyRuss]

And something tells me that every time someone says the East just isn't very good, Cavs fans are going to say it's just haters hating.

The fact of the matter is, the East is weak and the Cavs are pretty much head and shoulders above the rest of the East. That's not their fault and an argument can be made that some teams in the East aren't even trying and rather just waiting for Lebron to get old and/or retire.

Fair or not, the East isn't very good and a certain amount of the Cavs success is because of that. Folks pointing it out isn't necessarily just hate or not wanting to give the Cavs credit. There's a reason the Cavs are overwhelmingly the team that is picked to come out of the East and it isn't because the East is such a competitive conference.

The Cavs are a very good team, but the true test of how good they are will come in the final. Not in the Eastern Conference playoffs.

so do you still think they are vulnerable?

 

[DorianRo]

And lets not forget the toughest team the Cavs have to face this year in the East is the Celtics, Who probably wouldn't even be in the 2nd round if Rondo didn't go down.

Its weak. Theres no way around it. No way to argue

 

[gordontrue]

98 percent of the teams in the east DO suck. Its why I never understood why Lebron always needs a dream team around him.

His toughest competition for the last 6 years in the East were probably the Bulls a few years ago , who could never keep healthy players around and was hardly EVER at full strength in the playoffs.

Either Rose was always hurt, Gasol gets injured when they were up in the series, Noah got injured, Boozer had turf toe on year. Says a lot about how Weak the East is, when the best competition they had were at full healthy maybe HALF the percent of the time if that

He doesn't need a dream team to get out of the East. He's gotten out of the East with Delonte West and Booby Gibson.

The supporting cast sure comes in handy when he meets the 60-win Spurs, and 70-win Warriors, though.

 

[DorianRo]

He doesn't need a dream team to get out of the East. He's gotten out of the East with Delonte West and Booby Gibson.

The supporting cast sure comes in handy when he meets the 60-win Spurs, and 70-win Warriors, though.

Whoever comes out of the West, is generally tired/injured at 70 percent strength because of the tough rounds they get through. While The Cavs can just coast to the finals with draws of Tomato Cans. He shouldn't even need all that help really.

 

[gordontrue]

The East has definitely been, overall, considerably weaker than the west over the last 7 years.

But the perception is overstated, imo, partly because of the fact that LeBron has been so dominant and no one in the East has any accomplishments to point to over that time.

There have been some very good teams, including the championship Celtics and a very deep, defensive Pacers team that LeBron has gone through.

Its one thing to point out that the competition level in the East is less than the West. Its another to say that 50-win and even 60-win teams suck and are cakewalks.

 

[WiggyRuss]

He doesn't need a dream team to get out of the East. He's gotten out of the East with Delonte West and Booby Gibson.

The supporting cast sure comes in handy when he meets the 60-win Spurs, and 70-win Warriors, though.

yah---its why i thought anyone who said they were "vulnerable" in the East were out of their mind....who are they playing? lol.

if you base your opinion on the REGULAR SEASON- with LeBron James- you are gonna look foolish at this point in LeBron's career- its just not a reliable indicator of the team. People that watch the Cavs regularly know this....others....ehhh...apparently not.

 

[gordontrue]

Whoever comes out of the West, is generally tired/injured at 70 percent strength because of the tough rounds they get through. While The Cavs can just coast to the finals with draws of Tomato Cans. He shouldn't even need all that help really.

Last year, the Cavs played a team with a better record than the Warriors' opponent in every single round of the playoffs.

Oops. There goes that narrative.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The East has definitely been, overall, considerably weaker than the west over the last 7 years.

But the perception is overstated, imo, partly because of the fact that LeBron has been so dominant and no one in the East has any accomplishments to point to over that time.

There have been some very good teams, including the championship Celtics and a very deep, defensive Pacers team that LeBron has gone through.

Its one thing to point out that the competition level in the East is less than the West. Its another to say that 50-win and even 60-win teams suck and are cakewalks.

the best team the Cavs have probably played in the East was that 60 win Hawks team they swept.....

what the Cavs do i nthe regular season at this point- seriously just has so little bearing on what happens in the playoffs- its not even funny. They use the regular season as a warmup- and make sure guys are healthy....

the Cavs had an AWFUL record in for March and April and did not play well AT ALL--- but it meant ZERO once the playoff started. ZILCH NADA NOTHING....people that watch the Cavs regularly saw what was going on. Its just common sense.

 

[DorianRo]

The East has definitely been, overall, considerably weaker than the west over the last 7 years.

But the perception is overstated, imo, partly because of the fact that LeBron has been so dominant and no one in the East has any accomplishments to point to over that time.

There have been some very good teams, including the championship Celtics and a very deep, defensive Pacers team that LeBron has gone through.

Its one thing to point out that the competition level in the East is less than the West. Its another to say that 50-win and even 60-win teams suck and are cakewalks.

Its not all because of Lebron. Hes played with Prime Wade, Bosh, Post prime Allen still dead on 3, Irving and Love and then a host of other sharp shooting 3 pointers since 2010. Thats more than MOST players can even hope to play with their entire career as far as supporting help. All the while, playing in a conference with no depth and maybe ONE team that will provide resistance.

 

[trojanfan12]

Nah, I say the East isn't very good, myself, all the time.

There's a huge difference between that and the posts I quoted from Dorian.

Not really. He was pointing out that the East isn't very good which we all already knew. He was a bit over the top as far as calling the rest of the East "ham and eggers" and a bunch of "d-league teams." But the overall point was the same...the East isn't very good.

Again, it doesn't mean the Cavs aren't a very good team. It means that we likely won't know just how good they are until the finals.

I can't say as that I've ever seen a fanbase want to call everyone haters for predicting their team will make the finals.

 

[gordontrue]

Its not all because of Lebron

I agree, that's why I used the word "partly"

 

[WiggyRuss]

Not really. He was pointing out that the East isn't very good which we all already knew. He was a bit over the top as far as calling the rest of the East "ham and eggers" and a bunch of "d-league teams." But the overall point was the same...the East isn't very good.

Again, it doesn't mean the Cavs aren't a very good team. It means that we likely won't know just how good they are until the finals.

I can't say as that I've ever seen a fanbase want to call everyone haters for predicting their team will make the finals.

do you still think they are "a bit vulnerable" in the East? to quote you directly.

 

[gordontrue]

Not really. He was pointing out that the East isn't very good which we all already knew. He was a bit over the top as far as calling the rest of the East "ham and eggers" and a bunch of "d-league teams." But the overall point was the same...the East isn't very good.

Again, it doesn't mean the Cavs aren't a very good team. It means that we likely won't know just how good they are until the finals.

I can't say as that I've ever seen a fanbase want to call everyone haters for predicting their team will make the finals.

A little over the top? If that was his point, he could say it, instead of what he actually said. Does he need you to explain what he really meant?

 

[DorianRo]

And regular season in the grand scheme of things mean nothing anymore. So it doesn't matter "who beats who" in the regular seasons. Its all about Just some HCA leverage. We all know the competition is going to be much stronger in the post season in the West.. Like it is EVERY YEAR. A lot of teams the last half of the season are on pilot control as long as they see a playoff slot and some HCA. The rest of the bottom feeding BUM teams are the ones playing all out just trying to get it. Mainly in the East. And when they get to the playoffs, they don't put up much of any resistance. Hell, they can' even manage a game.


By and large, the Regular season means NOTHING. Except for the Bottom feeding crap.

 

[trojanfan12]

so do you still think they are vulnerable?

Defensively? Yes. If they somehow don't make it out of the East, their defense will be the reason. If they lose in the finals, their defense will be the reason.

My opinion on this has not changed. If they can find a way to play at least close to the level of defense that they played last year, they will not only come out of the East, but they stand a very good chance of getting the repeat.

So far, I haven't seen anything from them that shows they can get back to that level defensively.

Maybe they know they can just outscore everyone in the East and figure they'll step their defense up in the finals, but that's a very dangerous game to play.

 

[trojanfan12]

Last year, the Cavs played a team with a better record than the Warriors' opponent in every single round of the playoffs.

Oops. There goes that narrative.

Not really. What do you think those teams records would look like if they were playing a Western Conference schedule?