2023 season

[DanBengalfan]

MSN

www.msn.com

consistency with callahan, seems to have straightened out some of the issues by the end of the season. so I think this is good.

 

[jbuck]

if we lose bates we should be able to buy a large man for the OL

 

[Cincyfan78]

if we lose bates we should be able to buy a large man for the OL

Bates is gone - and his cap number is already included in the near 44M of space the Bengals have as he's an UFA. They drafted Dax to replace him, and with trying to get Burrow as well as Higgins - they are not going to spend the $15+ that Bates is seeking. He's simply not a top 5 safety. He's good. Solid, but not really a game changer.

Biggest/Best guys who are looking at being cut: Collins, Mixon, Boyd (in that order, IMO). Each would free up a solid amount of cap space, and in Collins' and Mixon's case - upgrades can be had for similar numbers, or less, than they are counting towards the cap at the moment.

 

[DanBengalfan]

defense will be the biggest thing to watch this offseason.

we can score 30 points a game and still lose if we make them backup qbs look like Joe Brady and Tom Montana

 

[cincygrad]

Reports this morning say that Pitcher is coming back as QB coach. The offensive staff will be the same.

The fact that Lou hasn't been hired in AZ yet suggests that they might be waiting to talk to Philly's OC.

Getting all coaches back would be amazing - It's an advantage that most contenders don't get to enjoy.

 

[jbuck]

Bates is gone - and his cap number is already included in the near 44M of space the Bengals have as he's an UFA. They drafted Dax to replace him, and with trying to get Burrow as well as Higgins - they are not going to spend the $15+ that Bates is seeking. He's simply not a top 5 safety. He's good. Solid, but not really a game changer.

Biggest/Best guys who are looking at being cut: Collins, Mixon, Boyd (in that order, IMO). Each would free up a solid amount of cap space, and in Collins' and Mixon's case - upgrades can be had for similar numbers, or less, than they are counting towards the cap at the moment.

soooooo get a large man? FA? I didn't know Bates was signed somewhere

 

[Cincyfan78]

soooooo get a large man? FA? I didn't know Bates was signed somewhere

Bates isn't signed, but he's not coming back to Cincinnati because he wants $15M+ a year, and isn't going to get that. If he were, the Bengals would have had him signed 2 years ago. They drafted Hill last year in the 1st round to be ready to replace him this year. Bates is not coming back without swallowing a LARGE chunk of pride, and taking a deal far less than he was seeking the past 2 years.

Point being, the cap number already accounts for the lack of his salary in '23 - and F/A is up in the air until they get Burrow signed, and decide if they are able to extend Higgins. Until those 2 dominos fall - I'm not sure there will be much major movement in F/A without cutting guys...which remains to be seen, of course.

If it takes most of the cap this year to get both Burrow and Higgins under long-term contracts - then you are not just going to go buy a large man.

This isn't Madden.

 

[cincygrad]

Bates isn't signed, but he's not coming back to Cincinnati because he wants $15M+ a year, and isn't going to get that. If he were, the Bengals would have had him signed 2 years ago. They drafted Hill last year in the 1st round to be ready to replace him this year. Bates is not coming back without swallowing a LARGE chunk of pride, and taking a deal far less than he was seeking the past 2 years.

Point being, the cap number already accounts for the lack of his salary in '23 - and F/A is up in the air until they get Burrow signed, and decide if they are able to extend Higgins. Until those 2 dominos fall - I'm not sure there will be much major movement in F/A without cutting guys...which remains to be seen, of course.

If it takes most of the cap this year to get both Burrow and Higgins under long-term contracts - then you are not just going to go buy a large man.

This isn't Madden.

I suspect the Bengals will be in the market for a veteran tackle. Not a top-50 FA type guy, but something similar to what they had with Rief a couple of years ago. This is based on the thought that they will cut Collins and will want some experience at the position coming into camp. I also think tackle is a priority for their first rounder in the draft, but the Bengals aren't all that keen on starting rookies unless their hand is forced. And given that we still have to play TJ Watt twice a year, getting some vet help at the position is necessary.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I suspect the Bengals will be in the market for a veteran tackle. Not a top-50 FA type guy, but something similar to what they had with Rief a couple of years ago. This is based on the thought that they will cut Collins and will want some experience at the position coming into camp. I also think tackle is a priority for their first rounder in the draft, but the Bengals aren't all that keen on starting rookies unless their hand is forced. And given that we still have to play TJ Watt twice a year, getting some vet help at the position is necessary.

Agreed. I think they cut Collins, and use that towards a replacement....my bigger thing is with Burrow and Higgins on the docket - I don't see them paying to retain a guy like Bates when the cheaper option from the draft prior, 1st rounder at that, is already on the roster. Bates had his chance, decided to stick to his guns (totally his right), and he'll no longer be a Bengal in '23..

 

[cincygrad]

Agreed. I think they cut Collins, and use that towards a replacement....my bigger thing is with Burrow and Higgins on the docket - I don't see them paying to retain a guy like Bates when the cheaper option from the draft prior, 1st rounder at that, is already on the roster. Bates had his chance, decided to stick to his guns (totally his right), and he'll no longer be a Bengal in '23..

Oh yeah.... There's no chance for Bates to return. Hill is a safety. Though everyone talked about his versatility when he was drafted, the only way he develops is to settle into a position. He's a safety with tons of upside that the Bengals control for 4 more seasons.

It will be interesting to see where Bates lands. I'm not sure if many contenders will be in the market for a safety that wants top 5 money. Maybe one of the teams that need to fix their D (Seattle, Detroit, Minn).

 

[Cincyfan78]

Oh yeah.... There's no chance for Bates to return. Hill is a safety. Though everyone talked about his versatility when he was drafted, the only way he develops is to settle into a position. He's a safety with tons of upside that the Bengals control for 4 more seasons.

It will be interesting to see where Bates lands. I'm not sure if many contenders will be in the market for a safety that wants top 5 money. Maybe one of the teams that need to fix their D (Seattle, Detroit, Minn).

He's good - just not top 5 good, and I think that is the crux of the issue, IMO.

As I've said most of these following weeks - it's really hard to get a gauge how this team can move forward in F/A. Once that is figured out - I think we get a much clearer picture on how this team can move forward.

I think Collins is a cut. The injury history is concerning, and coming off a knee compounded with the back just doesn't make a ton of sense. He carries a 9.3M cap it, with 3.33 of dead money...So, it would free up about $6M of cap space they could use to find at least a suitable replacement if they didn't feel Adeniji is the guy. The could also roll with Adeniji, who I think played just as good as Collins overall, and bank on landing a OT in the draft in one of the rounds.

Same could be said for Boyd...who I love. But a cap hit of 10.2M with only 1.4 in dead money would be a lot of money to free up. There could be a few guys in that 2nd round I would highly consider for the slot - Parker from PSU, and Hyatt from Tenn (he would be my choice here). They would add youth, talent, and speed - something really lacking outside of Chase - but even with him, the offense doesn't have a true burner. Hyatt from the slot would offer that, and at 6'0, has some size to move around - but he's played mainly slot.

Mixon is the other prime candidate - $12.7M cap, with $5.5 dead would free up 7.2M. There are some solid backs in that late day 2/3 range and into the 4th round, even. Spears from Tulane is a solid RB, and I am intrigued by Brown from Ill....If they are able to upgrade the line with some of these cuts, and actually IMPROVE the line - any RB will be an upgrade to the position.

Or - you make some of these cuts, and that money is eventually funneled to Burrow/Higgins...and you run with who you can get in the draft. A risky proposition, but from just a cursory glance, the Bengals have opportunity to grab some really good players - issue will be if they are needed immediately how that will play out.

 

[Picklerick 2.0]

We lost 5 games this season. 4 of them were basically at the gun. We had one really bad week in Cleveland and that was it. And yet, it still feels like they never fully realized their potential... I think there is a lot to like about our chances again next year.

It's been a fun ride the last two seasons. Which we had a Lombardi trophy to show for it, but it sure beats the old days.

They will. The Bengals are scary good and burrows is for real

 

[cincygrad]

He's good - just not top 5 good, and I think that is the crux of the issue, IMO.

As I've said most of these following weeks - it's really hard to get a gauge how this team can move forward in F/A. Once that is figured out - I think we get a much clearer picture on how this team can move forward.

I think Collins is a cut. The injury history is concerning, and coming off a knee compounded with the back just doesn't make a ton of sense. He carries a 9.3M cap it, with 3.33 of dead money...So, it would free up about $6M of cap space they could use to find at least a suitable replacement if they didn't feel Adeniji is the guy. The could also roll with Adeniji, who I think played just as good as Collins overall, and bank on landing a OT in the draft in one of the rounds.

Same could be said for Boyd...who I love. But a cap hit of 10.2M with only 1.4 in dead money would be a lot of money to free up. There could be a few guys in that 2nd round I would highly consider for the slot - Parker from PSU, and Hyatt from Tenn (he would be my choice here). They would add youth, talent, and speed - something really lacking outside of Chase - but even with him, the offense doesn't have a true burner. Hyatt from the slot would offer that, and at 6'0, has some size to move around - but he's played mainly slot.

Mixon is the other prime candidate - $12.7M cap, with $5.5 dead would free up 7.2M. There are some solid backs in that late day 2/3 range and into the 4th round, even. Spears from Tulane is a solid RB, and I am intrigued by Brown from Ill....If they are able to upgrade the line with some of these cuts, and actually IMPROVE the line - any RB will be an upgrade to the position.

Or - you make some of these cuts, and that money is eventually funneled to Burrow/Higgins...and you run with who you can get in the draft. A risky proposition, but from just a cursory glance, the Bengals have opportunity to grab some really good players - issue will be if they are needed immediately how that will play out.

I think Mixon and Collins should be cut. There aren't many justifiable reasons to keep either player at that number. I'd probably try to sign Perine to a team-friendly deal and then take my chances with a back from the draft. We need to move on from Collins due to his injuries/age.... We need to add linemen in FA and the draft. I wouldn't mind getting a 1-year vet at right tackle similar to the types of moves we made with Rief and Collins. The issue there is durability - We lost both before the playoffs began. So, we'll need someone in development. Or, if you can re-sign Adeniji for a fair deal he could add some depth.

I think Boyd is a more difficult call. I don't think he is worth 9 million at this point. I also don't think he was nearly the game changer he was just two years ago. That said, both Tee and Chase missed time this year (so did Boyd). We can afford to have one wide receiver hurt or ineffective - We can't afford two to be down. I also think back to the AFC-C game and think that things might have been different on that last drive if Boyd was still in the game. The way KC was playing pass defense would have played to Boyd's strength of having the whole middle to himself. I digress... Point being - I think you need to be sure you're getting something out of a rookie if you get rid of Boyd. I'd love for them to find a way to restructure the deal for 3 years and ride it out, but I don't think it makes much sense for Boyd to take less money when someone could throw more at him on the open market. Regardless of what they do with Boyd, I think they need to draft a receiver somewhere in the first 4 rounds - Get some talent that you can work with in the event that you have a future without Boyd or without Higgins.

 

[DanBengalfan]

I think Mixon and Collins should be cut. There aren't many justifiable reasons to keep either player at that number. I'd probably try to sign Perine to a team-friendly deal and then take my chances with a back from the draft. We need to move on from Collins due to his injuries/age.... We need to add linemen in FA and the draft. I wouldn't mind getting a 1-year vet at right tackle similar to the types of moves we made with Rief and Collins. The issue there is durability - We lost both before the playoffs began. So, we'll need someone in development. Or, if you can re-sign Adeniji for a fair deal he could add some depth.

I think Boyd is a more difficult call. I don't think he is worth 9 million at this point. I also don't think he was nearly the game changer he was just two years ago. That said, both Tee and Chase missed time this year (so did Boyd). We can afford to have one wide receiver hurt or ineffective - We can't afford two to be down. I also think back to the AFC-C game and think that things might have been different on that last drive if Boyd was still in the game. The way KC was playing pass defense would have played to Boyd's strength of having the whole middle to himself. I digress... Point being - I think you need to be sure you're getting something out of a rookie if you get rid of Boyd. I'd love for them to find a way to restructure the deal for 3 years and ride it out, but I don't think it makes much sense for Boyd to take less money when someone could throw more at him on the open market. Regardless of what they do with Boyd, I think they need to draft a receiver somewhere in the first 4 rounds - Get some talent that you can work with in the event that you have a future without Boyd or without Higgins.

yea, generally you can have 2 really good receivers. it's hard to have 3 receivers on your roster that could be #1s.
will likely get replaced with a long standing tight end from the draft though. so that's good. also frees up Chase to be slot receiver whenever he feels like it.

 

[Picklerick 2.0]

I think Mixon and Collins should be cut. There aren't many justifiable reasons to keep either player at that number. I'd probably try to sign Perine to a team-friendly deal and then take my chances with a back from the draft. We need to move on from Collins due to his injuries/age.... We need to add linemen in FA and the draft. I wouldn't mind getting a 1-year vet at right tackle similar to the types of moves we made with Rief and Collins. The issue there is durability - We lost both before the playoffs began. So, we'll need someone in development. Or, if you can re-sign Adeniji for a fair deal he could add some depth.

I think Boyd is a more difficult call. I don't think he is worth 9 million at this point. I also don't think he was nearly the game changer he was just two years ago. That said, both Tee and Chase missed time this year (so did Boyd). We can afford to have one wide receiver hurt or ineffective - We can't afford two to be down. I also think back to the AFC-C game and think that things might have been different on that last drive if Boyd was still in the game. The way KC was playing pass defense would have played to Boyd's strength of having the whole middle to himself. I digress... Point being - I think you need to be sure you're getting something out of a rookie if you get rid of Boyd. I'd love for them to find a way to restructure the deal for 3 years and ride it out, but I don't think it makes much sense for Boyd to take less money when someone could throw more at him on the open market. Regardless of what they do with Boyd, I think they need to draft a receiver somewhere in the first 4 rounds - Get some talent that you can work with in the event that you have a future without Boyd or without Higgins.

Mixon has no business making that money for his production.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I think Mixon and Collins should be cut. There aren't many justifiable reasons to keep either player at that number. I'd probably try to sign Perine to a team-friendly deal and then take my chances with a back from the draft. We need to move on from Collins due to his injuries/age.... We need to add linemen in FA and the draft. I wouldn't mind getting a 1-year vet at right tackle similar to the types of moves we made with Rief and Collins. The issue there is durability - We lost both before the playoffs began. So, we'll need someone in development. Or, if you can re-sign Adeniji for a fair deal he could add some depth.

I think Boyd is a more difficult call. I don't think he is worth 9 million at this point. I also don't think he was nearly the game changer he was just two years ago. That said, both Tee and Chase missed time this year (so did Boyd). We can afford to have one wide receiver hurt or ineffective - We can't afford two to be down. I also think back to the AFC-C game and think that things might have been different on that last drive if Boyd was still in the game. The way KC was playing pass defense would have played to Boyd's strength of having the whole middle to himself. I digress... Point being - I think you need to be sure you're getting something out of a rookie if you get rid of Boyd. I'd love for them to find a way to restructure the deal for 3 years and ride it out, but I don't think it makes much sense for Boyd to take less money when someone could throw more at him on the open market. Regardless of what they do with Boyd, I think they need to draft a receiver somewhere in the first 4 rounds - Get some talent that you can work with in the event that you have a future without Boyd or without Higgins.

Agreed on all fronts. The money spent vs the expected returns are just not justifiable.

I would love to see a Boyd extension as well...lower the cap number, and let him ride out the next 3 years and retire. I don't really see him having a "2nd" career outside of Cincy, so this pretty much wraps up his playing days, which I think is good as long as the numbers work. He does provide the depth needed, but I think if you decide to move on from Boyd, you are likely looking at a high(er) round WR pick as well as another F/A to add depth. I mean, between the 3 cut candidates, you are looking at about 21M+ gives you a lot of wiggle room in F/A even with Burrow/Higgins on the forefront.

Those 3 moves would take the Bengals from roughly 40-44M in cap space to 61-65M in cap space....you could eat a LOT of Burrow and Higgins Bonuses up front, or heavily skew those 1st year numbers, and that would mean a ton of cap flexibility going forward for Chase, and the numerous guys coming due for contracts in '24 and beyond.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Boyd will go somewhere
but we have him under contract next season, making over 10 million

he could very well play here next season if no one wants to pay him that much to be their #2 or #1 receiver. I think he's smarter than Uz though, he's not going to go play for the Jets or something dumb.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Boyd will go somewhere
but we have him under contract next season, making over 10 million

he could very well play here next season if no one wants to pay him that much to be their #2 or #1 receiver. I think he's smarter than Uz though, he's not going to go play for the Jets or something dumb.

Problem is, I can see him going back home to Pittsburgh. That I would not like.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Problem is, I can see him going back home to Pittsburgh. That I would not like.

Can't disregard to make the move you need to make because you're afraid of another team...

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Can't disregard to make the move you need to make because you're afraid of another team...

Don't go al philosophical on me. HAHA I was just saying, how much would you hate seeing Boyd on the back of a Steeler jersey?