Series Thread: 2023 NBA Finals: Heat vs. Nuggets

[dtgold88]

He was already an assistant with the Bulls for 2 years previous, technically his second pro job (Nets assistant, followed by stints in the CBA and Puerto Rico). Could someone else have hired him instead of the Lakers? I don't know.

Krause hated Phil and only re-signed him for one year when his contract ended. He publicly stated that Phil would not return even if he won the championship. Krause not keeping Phil ended Jordan's Bulls career.

Yes, I saw and while he did keep saying Phillip was gone if memory serves near the end he relented on that some and Phillip would not come back. Was it not liking Krause? Perhaps, but what I said also true...was going to get harder (no Pippen) and he wanted no part of it. Hell, that is also true of MJ. But at least MJ took a later role he knew would be tough.

 

[msgkings322]

Phil is the greatest coach of all time, it's not up for debate.

The bolded is dumb

 

[Shane_O_Mac812]

The bolded is dumb

Just how I feel, I think he is leaps and bounds above everyone else and there is no one even in the stratosphere much like the MJ debate.

 

[trojanfan12]

sure....Phillip can get elite talent to play great. Brown can get more out of lesser guys. seems like you get it.

I think that both are great for different reasons.

Maybe part of the reason Brown did well with lesser talents was because he couldn't/wouldn't deal with star players egos? If memory serves, part of why he left the Sixers was things were tense with A.I.

Phil wasn't the teacher Brown was, but was able to get massive ego players to play together to get titles. As I pointed out earlier, with the exception of Shaq (who did it once), none of those stars that "anyone could win with", won a title without Phil.

 

[dtgold88]

The bolded is dumb

especially since we are kind of debating it.

 

[shopson67]

sure....Phillip can get elite talent to play great. Brown can get more out of lesser guys. seems like you get it.

Sure, to the end result of 1 championship and a .568 winning percentage with short stints everywhere he was hired vs 11 championships with 2 teams and a .704 winning percentage. Brown was always better suited to the college game IMO.

Let's not pretend that Brown didn't have star players when he had success, including that underrated Pistons squad. David Robinson, Allen Iverson, Reggie Miller, etc.

 

[shopson67]

Yes, I saw and while he did keep saying Phillip was gone if memory serves near the end he relented on that some and Phillip would not come back. Was it not liking Krause? Perhaps, but what I said also true...was going to get harder (no Pippen) and he wanted no part of it. Hell, that is also true of MJ. But at least MJ took a later role he knew would be tough.

Revisionist history much?

 

[msgkings322]

Just how I feel, I think he is leaps and bounds above everyone else and there is no one even in the stratosphere much like the MJ debate.

OK and everyone gets an opinion but to say it's not even worth discussing devalues your opinions on this. MJ isn't the undisputed GOAT either anymore.

 

[dtgold88]

I think that both are great for different reasons.

Maybe part of the reason Brown did well with lesser talents was because he couldn't/wouldn't deal with star players egos? If memory serves, part of why he left the Sixers was things were tense with A.I.

Phil wasn't the teacher Brown was, but was able to get massive ego players to play together to get titles. As I pointed out earlier, with the exception of Shaq (who did it once), none of those stars that "anyone could win with", won a title without Phil.

Not really debating any of that, but to make my list I would want to see what he could do with lesser talent, as well. If Spo's only success was with Lebron, Wade and Bosh I would not think so highly of him.

Curious if you agree with one of the things I said earlier.....had Phillip not been such a disaster in the FO and was able to acquire elite players in NY do you think he moves back to the bench there?

 

[dtgold88]

Revisionist history much?

uh...no? If you are buying what went on in The Last Dance they did seem willing to bring back Phillip and he said no. with Phillip and Pippen gone/going, MJ left as well. Is this really debatable?

 

[msgkings322]

I think that both are great for different reasons.

Maybe part of the reason Brown did well with lesser talents was because he couldn't/wouldn't deal with star players egos? If memory serves, part of why he left the Sixers was things were tense with A.I.

Phil wasn't the teacher Brown was, but was able to get massive ego players to play together to get titles. As I pointed out earlier, with the exception of Shaq (who did it once), none of those stars that "anyone could win with", won a title without Phil.

If we're doing Mount Rushmore we need 4 and Phil would be my fourth. Like the GOAT player debate, at the highest level there's no way to definitively say who's "better". Different teams, eras, players, etc. For some types of teams you'd want Pop, for others Spo, for others Brown, for others Phil.

 

[msgkings322]

Not really debating any of that, but to make my list I would want to see what he could do with lesser talent, as well. If Spo's only success was with Lebron, Wade and Bosh I would not think so highly of him.

Curious if you agree with one of the things I said earlier.....had Phillip not been such a disaster in the FO and was able to acquire elite players in NY do you think he moves back to the bench there?

I think not he was getting pretty old, walking with a cane, etc. Doubt he'd have been up for the rigors of road trips and being on the sidelines and running practices

 

[Shane_O_Mac812]

OK and everyone gets an opinion but to say it's not even worth discussing devalues your opinions on this. MJ isn't the undisputed GOAT either anymore.

Stating MJ isn't the undisputed GOAT is showing even less value. He is and will always be the GOAT. Let's say a rookie gets drafted this year and has a 15 year career avg. 40/20/15 for his career and wins 15 titles, one for every year he plays, that guy still doesn't pass MJ. He is literally unpassable. No one will ever have the impact or change the world of sports like he did. All this GOAT debate only uses his stats and titles for the debate when he is so much more than the sport itself.

 

[dtgold88]

If we're doing Mount Rushmore we need 4 and Phil would be my fourth. Like the GOAT player debate, at the highest level there's no way to definitively say who's "better". Different teams, eras, players, etc. For some types of teams you'd want Pop, for others Spo, for others Brown, for others Phil.

4 would be a tough call for me, but I'm sure Phil (and Kerr) would have to be in consideration

 

[shopson67]

uh...no? If you are buying what went on in The Last Dance they did seem willing to bring back Phillip and he said no. with Phillip and Pippen gone/going, MJ left as well. Is this really debatable?

If you're treating the Last Dance as purely factual, then we're going to have issues. Pippen was likely going. Krause berated Phil endlessly, taking shots at him whenever he could. Did he try to reverse field at the very end? Maybe, but who goes back to a relationship like that?

 

[msgkings322]

4 would be a tough call for me, but I'm sure Phil (and Kerr) would have to be in consideration

I'd put Phil above Steve but not by a whole lot. Phil did win a couple titles at the end there (09 and 10) without overwhelming talent...Kobe was the only superstar.

 

[msgkings322]

Stating MJ isn't the undisputed GOAT is showing even less value. He is and will always be the GOAT. Let's say a rookie gets drafted this year and has a 15 year career avg. 40/20/15 for his career and wins 15 titles, one for every year he plays, that guy still doesn't pass MJ. He is literally unpassable. No one will ever have the impact or change the world of sports like he did. All this GOAT debate only uses his stats and titles for the debate when he is so much more than the sport itself.

Like I said, your opinions are your own and no one can take them from you. This one is a bit childish. However, you are not the only one who thinks it.

 

[trojanfan12]

Not really debating any of that, but to make my list I would want to see what he could do with lesser talent, as well. If Spo's only success was with Lebron, Wade and Bosh I would not think so highly of him.

Curious if you agree with one of the things I said earlier.....had Phillip not been such a disaster in the FO and was able to acquire elite players in NY do you think he moves back to the bench there?

I think it would depend.

He had some serious back issues that made travel and being on the bench for games more and more difficult. Also, he had already won 11 titles as a coach...so winning as an executive would have been another feather in his cap. I think he'd have been good with that.

Having said that, if he felt the coach wasn't showing he could get the job done, yeah...he likely takes over.

 

[Shane_O_Mac812]

Like I said, your opinions are your own and no one can take them from you. This one is a bit childish. However, you are not the only one who thinks it.

I'm aware I'm biased, I was 5 when MJ entered the league. Watched every game riveted. Literally cried when he retired. The man changed my life and possibly saved it as well. This man will forever be the greatest athlete I've ever watched in any sport due to the influence he had on me growing up and setting my own life straight as I got older. How some people say a certain musician wrote a song that saved or changed their life, MJ was that for me. He literally can walk on water in my eyes. I know it's childish and crazy, but you will never hear me utter a bad word about him.

 

[msgkings322]

I'm aware I'm biased, I was 5 when MJ entered the league. Watched every game riveted. Literally cried when he retired. The man changed my life and possibly saved it as well. This man will forever be the greatest athlete I've ever watched in any sport due to the influence he had on me growing up and setting my own life straight as I got older. How some people say a certain musician wrote a song that saved or changed their life, MJ was that for me. He literally can walk on water in my eyes. I know it's childish and crazy, but you will never hear me utter a bad word about him.

Holy shit bro lol

*backs away slowly*