Series Thread: 2023 NBA Finals: Heat vs. Nuggets

[fightinfunbags]

MJ didn't buy into the idea of needing his teammates to win titles until he was coached by Phil.

Shaq and Kobe were alternating getting bounced out of the playoffs by the Jazz and Spurs until Phil took over.

Then he got the Kobe/Pau Lakers to the finals 3 times winning 2 more titles.

With the exception of Shaq, who did it once...none of those stars won a title without him.

I don't think Phil was all that great with X's and O's. In fact, the offense he was famous for wasn't even his offense. It was Tex Winters' offense.

But I don't think anyone in league history has been better at managing enormous ego's than Phil.

Great coach along with Kerr. Just not in that highest tier for me of Pop, Larry Brown, and Spo.

 

[shopson67]

He didn’t work his whole career in the NBA though. By all rights, based on the rosters he had, you could argue that he shouldn’t have any. He dragged Allen Iverson and role players to an NBA Finals and represented the only win vs that stacked Lakers squad on their way to back to back titles. Larry won a national title at Kansas and did great things most recently at SMU after he was “retired”. You do you but Larry Brown is without a doubt one of the elite coaches of his generation.

The fact that he never stuck anywhere for long has to be a ding on his record though.

 

[fightinfunbags]

The fact that he never stuck anywhere for long has to be a ding on his record though.

It’s your list. You can do anything you want with it. That doesn’t play a factor for me. I think the guy was constantly looking for new challenges in his career.

 

[trojanfan12]

Great coach along with Kerr. Just not in that highest tier for me of Pop, Larry Brown, and Spo.

I put Brown kind of in his own tier as the greatest teacher of the game. What hurts him a bit, imo, is that he was constantly moving. It would have been interesting to see what he could have done if he would have stayed in one place for more than a few seasons.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I put Brown kind of in his own tier as the greatest teacher of the game. What hurts him a bit, imo, is that he was constantly moving. It would have been interesting to see what he could have done if he would have stayed in one place for more than a few seasons.

I like the way you delineated this. That really gets to the core of who Brown is and his style of coaching.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

The year Jimmy Buckets was born

As a sophomore at Marquette, Jimmy Butler was told he needed to rebound and play defense to get on the floor. But as a junior, he began to morph into something else: Jimmy Buckets.

www.espn.com

JFB

 

[shopson67]

The year Jimmy Buckets was born

As a sophomore at Marquette, Jimmy Butler was told he needed to rebound and play defense to get on the floor. But as a junior, he began to morph into something else: Jimmy Buckets.

www.espn.com

JFB

Ironic nickname if he became "Buckets" by defending and rebounding more...

 

[dtgold88]

No Zen Master?

Not for me. Obviously a very good coach when he has the elite of the elite at his disposal. Would like to see him more willing to take on a challenge - as opposed to running from a challenge - to put him in that category.

 

[dtgold88]

Not for me. Give me Jordan and Pippen in their prime and I can win titles. Give me Shaq and Kobe in their prime and I can win titles. I place Kerr in the same lane. Those other 3 guys have tangibly created situations where the outcome is greater than the sum of their parts on a regular basis. That’s why I place them in their own category at the top of the heap.

I also like when things get harder they don't run/quit.

 

[dtgold88]

Brown has one NBA championship, not sure I can include him at the top personally.

Yeah that's probably because he's almost the opposite of Phillip in that Brown prefers a challenge to something easy.

 

[dtgold88]

MJ didn't buy into the idea of needing his teammates to win titles until he was coached by Phil.

Shaq and Kobe were alternating getting bounced out of the playoffs by the Jazz and Spurs until Phil took over.

Then he got the Kobe/Pau Lakers to the finals 3 times winning 2 more titles.

With the exception of Shaq, who did it once...none of those stars won a title without him.

I don't think Phil was all that great with X's and O's. In fact, the offense he was famous for wasn't even his offense. It was Tex Winters' offense.

But I don't think anyone in league history has been better at managing enormous ego's than Phil.

I can agree with a lot - if not all - of this. But for me to be on the level of the others he has to be willing to take on a challenge and not run from them.

I mean, if he was not so terribel as a talent evaluator in NY and was able to get elite players to play in NY I am confident he'd have gone back to the bench for them. since he was a disaster in the FO? no chance.

 

[dtgold88]

It’s your list. You can do anything you want with it. That doesn’t play a factor for me. I think the guy was constantly looking for new challenges in his career.

Exactly!! He was the complete opposite of Phillip. It's almost like he'd move on when things could get easier. Phillip would leave when it was going to be more of a challenge.

 

[dtgold88]

I put Brown kind of in his own tier as the greatest teacher of the game. What hurts him a bit, imo, is that he was constantly moving. It would have been interesting to see what he could have done if he would have stayed in one place for more than a few seasons.

Might be true, but just not who the guy is. What I imagine would have happened is he'd have been incredibly bored. Who he is.

 

[shopson67]

Not for me. Obviously a very good coach when he has the elite of the elite at his disposal. Would like to see him more willing to take on a challenge - as opposed to running from a challenge - to put him in that category.

What challenges did he run from? His first head coaching job was with the Bulls in 1989, was there until fired in 1998. Took a year off, Lakers hired him and he was there until he left in 2004 post Shaq trade. He came back a year later and retired in 2011.

 

[shopson67]

Exactly!! He was the complete opposite of Phillip. It's almost like he'd move on when things could get easier. Phillip would leave when it was going to be more of a challenge.

In other words, Brown worked best as the underdog with less pressure. He's the guy to get more out of lesser rosters, Phil is the guy to deal with star players and get them to form a winning team.

 

[Shane_O_Mac812]

Phil is the greatest coach of all time, it's not up for debate.

 

[dtgold88]

What challenges did he run from? His first head coaching job was with the Bulls in 1989, was there until fired in 1998. Took a year off, Lakers hired him and he was there until he left in 2004 post Shaq trade. He came back a year later and retired in 2011.

Ok...so went to the team with the best player. Going by memory, but at some point while watching The Last Dance weren't there eventually talks of keeping Jackson which he kind of nixed? Likely knew would be no more Pippen and it might be a little harder. Went to Lakers to join arguably the 2 best players. Are you suggesting that was the only opening he got a call about?

For my list, I want to see success and willingness to take on a challenge (and succeed). Just my opinion.

 

[trojanfan12]

Might be true, but just not who the guy is. What I imagine would have happened is he'd have been incredibly bored. Who he is.

Yeah, he's had an interesting career.

He's been like Cain...walking the earth and teaching his basketball Kung Fu.

He has left teams either just after they won a title or appeared to be about to.

He took a team of freshmen to the NCAA finals at UCLA, then left after the next season, won a title at Kansas and left, took the Sixers to the finals and left a couple years later, won a title with the Pistons and left. It would have been interesting to see how long he could have sustained things at any of those stops.

But, as you said, just isn't who he is.

 

[dtgold88]

In other words, Brown worked best as the underdog with less pressure. He's the guy to get more out of lesser rosters, Phil is the guy to deal with star players and get them to form a winning team.

sure....Phillip can get elite talent to play great. Brown can get more out of lesser guys. seems like you get it.

 

[shopson67]

Ok...so went to the team with the best player. Going by memory, but at some point while watching The Last Dance weren't there eventually talks of keeping Jackson which he kind of nixed? Likely knew would be no more Pippen and it might be a little harder. Went to Lakers to join arguably the 2 best players. Are you suggesting that was the only opening he got a call about?

For my list, I want to see success and willingness to take on a challenge (and succeed). Just my opinion.

He was already an assistant with the Bulls for 2 years previous, technically his second pro job (Nets assistant, followed by stints in the CBA and Puerto Rico). Could someone else have hired him instead of the Lakers? I don't know.

Krause hated Phil and only re-signed him for one year when his contract ended. He publicly stated that Phil would not return even if he won the championship. Krause not keeping Phil ended Jordan's Bulls career.