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Anointed One

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Second highest paid kicker in the league now.
I don't really look at that because it will be short lived... He won't be in a year or two... He may not even be in the top 10 over that time... He just happens to be one of the first FA good kickers that had their contract ending...
 

HaroldSeattle

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I don't really look at that because it will be short lived... He won't be in a year or two... He may not even be in the top 10 over that time... He just happens to be one of the first FA good kickers that had their contract ending...
Not against per say, just that it's an example of how cap space evaporates.
 

flyerhawk

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Agreed. Seattle signed Geno this off-season, seemingly negotiating against themselves into a potentially $7 million contract after he played mediocrely in 3 starts and had that massive DUI black eye fresh on the memory. After a season where Geno exceeded expectations and played pretty well overall, there's no reason to not take the Seahawks at their word that they want to re-sign him. I expect the team to make a major push to re-sign him, and I expect it to be for more than what fans are thinking he's worth.
Yup. I think some fans are going to be pretty angry with the number.
 

HaroldSeattle

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Yup. I think some fans are going to be pretty angry with the number.
Or depressed. To think they could sign a top notch DL in Payne for what it cost for marginal QB and decide to go with the marginal QB. That's a major downer, huge mistake. It will be difficult not to say "I told you so" when Geno plays his normal mediocre self next season. I can only hope and pray that is not how things go, rather they use their cap space to improve where needed, I mention Payne but I'm sure there are others that could be of good value, just not at QB because the market for QB is so inflated it's not where you want find a starting QB. The draft is where you want to look for a QB of the future, have that cap advantage to build the rest of the roster. We have seen this formula ( rookie QB and cap space to add to roster everywhere else) play out well in the past and it's a good formula if executed by a good franchise, doesn't work so well for badly run teams.
I will be majorly disappointed if they don't go this route.
 

flyerhawk

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Or depressed. To think they could sign a top notch DL in Payne for what it cost for marginal QB and decide to go with the marginal QB. That's a major downer, huge mistake. It will be difficult not to say "I told you so" when Geno plays his normal mediocre self next season. I can only hope and pray that is not how things go, rather they use their cap space to improve where needed, I mention Payne but I'm sure there are others that could be of good value, just not at QB because the market for QB is so inflated it's not where you want find a starting QB. The draft is where you want to look for a QB of the future, have that cap advantage to build the rest of the roster. We have seen this formula ( rookie QB and cap space to add to roster everywhere else) play out well in the past and it's a good formula if executed by a good franchise, doesn't work so well for badly run teams.
I will be majorly disappointed if they don't go this route.


I'm not sure what you expect to get from ANY QB we are likely to get this offseason. Sure, it's possible that we could draft the next Mahomes but the odds very much not in our favor. IMO, taking the remaining QB at #5 seems like a terrible approach as they would just be hoping that they will be good.

This team didn't lose because of Geno Smith. OTOH, they aren't going to win because of Geno Smith. If our running game and our pass blocking falter, Geno is going to struggle.

The Seahawks aren't going to give him a contract that hamstrings them for years to come. My guess is that it will be effectively a two year contract that will be fairly easy to get out of in year 3 or later.

Of course the best option is for the Seahawks to draft an elite QB and have him under a rookie contract for 4-5 years. But there is a ton of risk associated with that. You seem to completely dismiss that.
 

JMR

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Of course the best option is for the Seahawks to draft an elite QB and have him under a rookie contract for 4-5 years. But there is a ton of risk associated with that. You seem to completely dismiss that.
Drafting a QB early in rnd 1 sets your franchise back for ~5 years if you miss. You end up toiling with that player for at least 2 or 3 seasons to hope they turn the corner, then you're reset back to square 1 and start the clock over if they fail. Your team is undoubtedly terrible along the way because of how important that position is. That part of it seems to be hand waved by the "don't sign Geno no matter what" camp. Some people here (particularly Harold) carry on as if all risk is created equal. If it's a risk to sign Geno and also a risk to draft a QB, then it must be a wash!
 

flyerhawk

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Drafting a QB early in rnd 1 sets your franchise back for ~5 years if you miss. You end up toiling with that player for at least 2 or 3 seasons to hope they turn the corner, then you're reset back to square 1 and start the clock over if they fail. Your team is undoubtedly terrible along the way because of how important that position is. That part of it seems to be hand waved by the "don't sign Geno no matter what" camp. Some people here (particularly Harold) carry on as if all risk is created equal. If it's a risk to sign Geno and also a risk to draft a QB, then it must be a wash!

100% agree. If we were a QB away from being a contender then I think it would make perfect sense to take a chance on a QB early. But we aren't. We have a bad defense. We have an average offensive line. There is reason to be optimistic about the OL next year. But our DL needs a lot of help.

Taking the best DL we can at #5 involves far less risk than a QB, as you rightly point out. If they are a bust, it is a lot easier to simply bench them and look for a replacement. And finding elite DL players is just as hard as finding great QBs. They almost never hit FA. And most of the really good ones are taken early in the draft.
 

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Drafting a QB early in rnd 1 sets your franchise back for ~5 years if you miss. You end up toiling with that player for at least 2 or 3 seasons to hope they turn the corner, then you're reset back to square 1 and start the clock over if they fail. Your team is undoubtedly terrible along the way because of how important that position is. That part of it seems to be hand waved by the "don't sign Geno no matter what" camp. Some people here (particularly Harold) carry on as if all risk is created equal. If it's a risk to sign Geno and also a risk to draft a QB, then it must be a wash!
i see signing geno and building draft capital for next year as the best approach. that way if he does regress bigly we havent blown our load, we can still trade into a spot where we can draft a QB that is better than all the ones in this years draft.

if he improves over this year and we are in the playoffs again, we have picks to continue to build the defense.
 

JMR

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100% agree. If we were a QB away from being a contender then I think it would make perfect sense to take a chance on a QB early. But we aren't. We have a bad defense. We have an average offensive line. There is reason to be optimistic about the OL next year. But our DL needs a lot of help.

Taking the best DL we can at #5 involves far less risk than a QB, as you rightly point out. If they are a bust, it is a lot easier to simply bench them and look for a replacement. And finding elite DL players is just as hard as finding great QBs. They almost never hit FA. And most of the really good ones are taken early in the draft.
And if you pay a QB who doesn't work out, you only lose out on some money. I think we can all remember paying Matt Flynn a decent chunk of change for the time and then never starting him in a game. Teams are much more inclined to stick by a drafted player because they had to have had that full belief in them to take them so high in the daft. If Geno is re-signed but doesn't play up to it, at least we still will have used the 1.5 on a very talent player. And just like we have found every single successful starting QB in our franchise history, we can find a QB w/o blowing the top pick.
 

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i see signing geno and building draft capital for next year as the best approach. that way if he does regress bigly we havent blown our load, we can still trade into a spot where we can draft a QB that is better than all the ones in this years draft.

if he improves over this year and we are in the playoffs again, we have picks to continue to build the defense.

Look at the Niners. Arguably the best team in the league and they are on their 3rd QB of the season who was the last pick in the draft. They are great because they have the best DL in the league and one of the best OLs in the league.
 

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Look at the Niners. Arguably the best team in the league and they are on their 3rd QB of the season who was the last pick in the draft. They are great because they have the best DL in the league and one of the best OLs in the league.
I dont disagree at all. they need to hedge their bets though, and getting more picks next year that they can parlay into a top 3ish pick for a QB is what they need to do.

its very likely carter and anderson will be gone by 5 and trading down to 9 will still net us a second tier defender.
 

JMR

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i see signing geno and building draft capital for next year as the best approach. that way if he does regress bigly we havent blown our load, we can still trade into a spot where we can draft a QB that is better than all the ones in this years draft.

if he improves over this year and we are in the playoffs again, we have picks to continue to build the defense.
Yeah, if we have to play SF twice and @ KC in every block of 5 games, Geno probably has a tough row to hoe. I think anyone would. It happened to be that way at the end of the season, and some are suffering from some recency bias. We need to improve the D to help make Geno's life a bit easier in those tougher games, and it starts up front.

Our FO isn't stupid. Doesn't mean they are not infallible, but I don't think they are going to sign Geno at all costs. Those who are against it no matter what won't like the number whatever it ends up being, but I think John & Pete will use appropriate judgement and make the right call. Hopefully it's done before free agency starts.
 

HaroldSeattle

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Look at the Niners. Arguably the best team in the league and they are on their 3rd QB of the season who was the last pick in the draft. They are great because they have the best DL in the league and one of the best OLs in the league.
Yes see the 49ers who traded away a ton of draft capitol to move up to grab a QB who hasn't worked out and yet here the 49ers are SB contenders without that highly drafted QB.
 

flyerhawk

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Yes see the 49ers who traded away a ton of draft capitol to move up to grab a QB who hasn't worked out and yet here the 49ers are SB contenders without that highly drafted QB.

Their top pick in 2020 was Javon Kinlaw. Their 2019 top pick was Nick Bosa. Their 2018 top pick was Mike McGlinchey

It's a little disinengous to say that trading up for Lantz hasn't hurt them they trade their picks for this year and next year away. The pain of doing that won't be felt for the next few years.

The Rams traded a ton of draft capital to win a Super Bowl last year which they did. Now they are paying the price and likely going to be a mediocre to poor team for the next few years.
 

HaroldSeattle

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It's a little disinengous to say that trading up for Lantz hasn't hurt them
Did I say it didn't hurt them ? No I didn't, I said here they are SB contenders, which they are. They'll be contenders next season also. The point being is blowing a high pick on a QB isn't some death toll for a team.
 

Sharkonabicycle

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Well we resigned Myers, THAT FUCK!

He did have a good year. 6/6 on 50+ yards is really good, especially when you play in an open air stadium. Salary in his previous contract went up from $4M per to $5M per... That will be about top 10 in the league, but imagine someone else would've paid it.

Can't say it's an A grade as it's not a value contract by any mean, but finding a consistent kicker who knows your field is also kind of a pain... probably give it a B grade... and Seattle should have some decent cap room coming up (pending the Geno thing).

 

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Or depressed. To think they could sign a top notch DL in Payne for what it cost for marginal QB and decide to go with the marginal QB. That's a major downer, huge mistake. It will be difficult not to say "I told you so" when Geno plays his normal mediocre self next season. I can only hope and pray that is not how things go, rather they use their cap space to improve where needed, I mention Payne but I'm sure there are others that could be of good value, just not at QB because the market for QB is so inflated it's not where you want find a starting QB. The draft is where you want to look for a QB of the future, have that cap advantage to build the rest of the roster. We have seen this formula ( rookie QB and cap space to add to roster everywhere else) play out well in the past and it's a good formula if executed by a good franchise, doesn't work so well for badly run teams.
I will be majorly disappointed if they don't go this route.
We're probably going to release, Q. Williams, Harris, Ford, which would save us 21 million right there... Carroll in his post game press conference pretty much said in a nut shell that the guys up front didn't/weren't getting the job done.. I'm assume we'll see an overhaul at the DT position... If that will be the case, then I'd assume they'd utilize that money for a guy like, Payne...
 

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We're probably going to release, Q. Williams, Harris, Ford, which would save us 21 million right there... Carroll in his post game press conference pretty much said in a nut shell that the guys up front didn't/weren't getting the job done.. I'm assume we'll see an overhaul at the DT position... If that will be the case, then I'd assume they'd utilize that money for a guy like, Payne...

I wonder why PFF grades Payne so low. Is he a liability in the run? He accumulates quite a few sacks, so not sure what the issue is (penalties, missed tackles, etc.?)

Not saying PFF is the Bible of how good a player is, but it's just interesting to me.

Payne is probably going to be $23M per year and seeking 5 year with like $65M guaranteed... he's young enough he can command it.

Given our QB situation is going to be cheap if we go with the draft, then that works... but Payne will be FAR from a value contract. Overpaying for that could be a reason that gets us in trouble later. Especially with DTs being prone to getting fat/happy with a massive signing.
 
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HaroldSeattle

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We're probably going to release, Q. Williams, Harris, Ford, which would save us 21 million right there... Carroll in his post game press conference pretty much said in a nut shell that the guys up front didn't/weren't getting the job done.. I'm assume we'll see an overhaul at the DT position... If that will be the case, then I'd assume they'd utilize that money for a guy like, Payne...
Ford is a FA so no savings, Harris will save a hair less then 9 million. not sure who Q. Williams is , did you mean Diggs who would save almost 10 million? Remember you have to replace them with players who also cost money and only so many draft picks if your looking to save money, to upgrade via FA could be expensive ( I assume you don't want to down grade ).
 

Anointed One

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Ford is a FA so no savings, Harris will save a hair less then 9 million. not sure who Q. Williams is , did you mean Diggs who would save almost 10 million? Remember you have to replace them with players who also cost money and only so many draft picks if your looking to save money, to upgrade via FA could be expensive ( I assume you don't want to down grade ).
Q Jefferson I meant... Brock Huard had mentioned that we'd save 9 million with Ford moving on... I had just assumed he was a cut candidate... Yeah, I was thinking about Diggs...

You go after a Payne or another DT and address one or two of the spots in the draft & FA to replace those 3...
 
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