2023 Free agency and trade thread

[fightinfunbags]

Not disagreeing. Teams trade for contracts. A great player with a terrible contract probably has little or no trade value. The Rams would have been fielding 4 X jags in the secondary with him in 2023. If your house has 5 doors it doesn't make sense to pay $17M for a 1 really secure door when you've got beaded curtains on the other 4 doors. Even without compensation moving on from Ramsey would have made financial sense. The Rams beat reporters also thought he had more than mid 3rd value. The Rams have tried to move players where they want to go, (EG: Woods to Titans in 2022), so there might have been a slightly better offer out there. Losing maybe 100 or so Draft chart point isn't a big deal. I'm over it already and moving on. Good luck to Ramsey and the Dolphins are a good fit.

Makes a lot of sense what you’re saying. I believe Ramsey is a Florida kid so this assessment in his desire to go there over other options makes sense.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I learned a lot about the value of draft picks vs players almost 20 years ago with T.O. to the Eagles. I think the average fans don’t weigh cap position, age, length of remaining contract, etc…when they assess a player’s worth. This says to me that the Rams are looking at a reset anyway. At that point, keeping a Ramsey around is a luxury. Better to get compensation now considering by the time they’re ready to swing for the stars again Ramsey value is gone as he gets more expensive and older at the same time.

I think there is two different points of views that get argued when players get argued. There is IMO draft value & trade value. Now the way I look at things draft value (usually the team the player is going to) is what they are looking at. Meaning if you get a WR that plays as your #1 for the next 4 or so years. His draft value to replace him is probably around the late 1st to 2nd round. Now to trade that player off of your team. You will never get that. So the trade value (which is what I believe you are talking) is next to never as good as his draft value.
So a team trading a player is looking at what they can get for him (trade value)
A team receiving the player is looking at his draft value. What would it take to draft this player if we didnt trade for him. Thus saving using that draft pick for something else. Which is pretty often two different values.


Cooper for instance is a perfect example of what I believe you are talking. He was obviously worth more than a 6th rd. pick for the receiving team. To put that quality on the field they would have used a much higher draft pick, but then to consider he was already being paid 20 mil. a yr & not a rookie deal. Lessens the trade value vs. the draft value. The trading team took that lesser value to not pay him the 20 mil per.

Usually when I see two people arguing a guys worth in a trade they are mixing up these two things. Either using trade value for both sides or using draft value for both sides & they will never agree with each other.

This most recent trade the bears have. I think they nailed this trade. The player they got makes it advantage Bears in my book.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

 

[fightinfunbags]

I think there is two different points of views that get argued when players get argued. There is IMO draft value & trade value. Now the way I look at things draft value (usually the team the player is going to) is what they are looking at. Meaning if you get a WR that plays as your #1 for the next 4 or so years. His draft value to replace him is probably around the late 1st to 2nd round. Now to trade that player off of your team. You will never get that. So the trade value (which is what I believe you are talking) is next to never as good as his draft value.
So a team trading a player is looking at what they can get for him (trade value)
A team receiving the player is looking at his draft value. What would it take to draft this player if we didnt trade for him. Thus saving using that draft pick for something else. Which is pretty often two different values.


Cooper for instance is a perfect example of what I believe you are talking. He was obviously worth more than a 6th rd. pick for the receiving team. To put that quality on the field they would have used a much higher draft pick, but then to consider he was already being paid 20 mil. a yr & not a rookie deal. Lessens the trade value vs. the draft value. The trading team took that lesser value to not pay him the 20 mil per.

Usually when I see two people arguing a guys worth in a trade they are mixing up these two things. Either using trade value for both sides or using draft value for both sides & they will never agree with each other.

This most recent trade the bears have. I think they nailed this trade. The player they got makes it advantage Bears in my book.

This is a cool perspective I hadn’t considered. I like it a bunch.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

is there something I am missing?
Watched NFL Network this morning & they kept talking about Hargrave going to several teams.
I mean. Please let the Eagles be dumb enough to not resign him, but raises my question.
Are they not planning on resigning him? Or is he planning on not resigning with them?

 

[Shanemansj13]

is there something I am missing?
Watched NFL Network this morning & they kept talking about Hargrave going to several teams.
I mean. Please let the Eagles be dumb enough to not resign him, but raises my question.
Are they not planning on resigning him? Or is he planning on not resigning with them?

Well his AAV is like $18-$20M per year

 

[fightinfunbags]

is there something I am missing?
Watched NFL Network this morning & they kept talking about Hargrave going to several teams.
I mean. Please let the Eagles be dumb enough to not resign him, but raises my question.
Are they not planning on resigning him? Or is he planning on not resigning with them?

I think the Eagles can afford to get in one of their big three FA defensive guys (Bradberry, CJGJ, Hargraves). I rank them CJGJ, Hargraves, and then Bradberry. It’s tight between CJGJ and Hargraves. Hargraves could be great going forward but he’s 29 and he’s going to be an overpay at 20 million per year. I don’t pay that inside at 29. Everybody inside saw an increase in sack totals this year because of the Reddick factor. CJGJ has positional versatility. He’s younger and I think he’s Malcolm Jenkins 2.0, a guy who can make plays on the ball as a deep half safety but a slot corner’s skill set and experience there. You can use him in so many ways especially in disguise. Hargraves is a nice luxury but Eagles have already started a retool on defense with a high pick at DT last season and they’re likely to invest in it again. I don’t pay top dollar for 29 years old at that position. He likely never gets to 11 sacks again in his career.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I think the Eagles can afford to get in one of their big three FA defensive guys (Bradberry, CJGJ, Hargraves). I rank them CJGJ, Hargraves, and then Bradberry. It’s tight between CJGJ and Hargraves. Hargraves could be great going forward but he’s 29 and he’s going to be an overpay at 20 million per year. I don’t pay that inside at 29. Everybody inside saw an increase in sack totals this year because of the Reddick factor. CJGJ has positional versatility. He’s younger and I think he’s Malcolm Jenkins 2.0, a guy who can make plays on the ball as a deep half safety but a slot corner’s skill set and experience there. You can use him in so many ways especially in disguise. Hargraves is a nice luxury but Eagles have already started a retool on defense with a high pick at DT last season and they’re likely to invest in it again. I don’t pay top dollar for 29 years old at that position. He likely never gets to 11 sacks again in his career.

well I will look forward to the eagles losing Hargrave

 

[fightinfunbags]

well I will look forward to the eagles losing Hargrave

Did you see Payne’s number? Hargraves is gonna be a $20 million dollar player. Pains me to say it but have to let him walk. You’d be paying him for what he’s done not what he’s gonna do. He balled out at the perfect time and I’m happy for the dude. He’s getting a big bag.

 

[jarntt]

I don’t think you can trade Slay for more than a 4th or 5th. He’s only going if the new team wants to redo him. The Slay trade talk is Howie Roseman calling the agents bluff on Slay’s monetary value around the league. Rosenhaus has been granted permission to go and negotiate potential value after a trade. The Eagles intent isn’t actually trading Slay in my estimation. The goal is another restructure to give him more years in Philly while also helping them free up cap and kick the can down the road again.

I’ve never been a big Slay fan but I thought he was really good with Philly. I’d give up a second or third at worst for him if I wanted a #1 corner. I wouldn’t give a first because of what you mentioned about needing to resign him and even more so because he is going to be 33 by the end of next year so how long before the drop off? but IMO he will bring more than a 4th or 5th IMO If they choose to trade him. CB is still a premium position.

 

[VikingFan2k2]

I thought Ramsey had #56 pick trade value. Long has negligible value so this doesn't upgrade the #77 pick to much more than #73. It's a bit less than I expected but it is what it is. I wish Ramsey well going forward. Rams fans on other forums will likely be going nuts since many of them thought he had mid 1st round+ pick value. lol.

At his age and with his contract, this is not a bad trade. He has 3 maybe 4 good years left tops. He even showed some flaws last year.

Paying that kind of money to a corner that is not going to be elite for the rest of that contract is probably not a good investment.

 

[jarntt]

Wow. Rams run is just flat out done more so than after stinking this year. Might as well just start unloading everyone. Beware all teams that want to go that route and give up all your picks and sign a bunch of free agents. Thankfully for the Rams they had the one good year or it might be an epic disaster. So because of the SB it’s a huge win of course

 

[VikingFan2k2]

Wow.rams run is just flat out done

As a fan of a team with 5 Super Bowls, would you take a one and done and then hell for 5 after? As a fan of a team with 0, I sure would.

 

[jarntt]

As a fan of a team with 5 Super Bowls, would you take a one and done and then hell for 5 after? As a fan of a team with 0, I sure would.

Of course. What if they didn’t win it? Not like they dominated the league

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

As a fan of a team with 5 Super Bowls, would you take a one and done and then hell for 5 after? As a fan of a team with 0, I sure would.

Most definitely. Tearing it down, get bad and rebuild could take maybe 4yrs with a good FO.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Wow. Rams run is just flat out done more so than after stinking this year. Might as well just start unloading everyone. Beware all teams that want to go that route and give up all your picks and sign a bunch of free agents. Thankfully for the Rams they had the one good year or it might be an epic disaster. So because of the SB it’s a huge win of course

I’m now believing in the Stafford rumors that he’s being shopped.

 

[jarntt]

well I will look forward to the eagles losing Hargrave

I was hoping the Cowboys looked at Hargrave but not if he is going to get a deal like that.

 

[jarntt]

I’m now believing in the Stafford rumors that he’s being shopped.

Me too but other than the Jets if they don’t get Rodgers where is he going?

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I was hoping the Cowboys looked at Hargrave but not if he is going to get a deal like that.

we could use a Hargrave. But like you say. Dont believe he will be cost effective.
If we were gonna do the all in thing. Then I wouldnt care. But I dont believe we will be doing the all in thing.

One of the ideas I heard this morning was the Bears going after him.
Would make sense so they have the most cap available.