catman
Well-Known Member
I sincerely hope that Dick Allen makes it the next time the Veterans' Committee meets. He has a very strong case.
Coors Field.How is Todd Helton not in already?
The playing conditions at Coors are a freaking joke. One of the reasons I subscribe to the argument that Nomo’s Nono there is one of the greatest regular season pitching performances in the history of the game.I had to do a double take there... I knew he had a big split, but I didn't think he had a 1.408 OPS at home.
I wouldn’t take my ball and go home if he got in. I will just never vote for him. I think he is on the border of being borderline.Not going to argue that he was a totally different player away from Coors (or just about any Rockie either). Even so, we can't just ignore what he did do there. Whether you want to discount those stats or not, he played there. Even when you consider the sillyball era and Coors, his 133 OPS+ is still very good for a 1B. That figure is higher than the likes of Olerud, Palmeiro, Murray, and Keith Hernandez. Helton also rates as a very good defensive 1B and has a few Gold Gloves to back it up.
I think he's kinda borderline but I wouldn't complain if he got in. I do think his 2000-04 peak is pretty strong and I think he added enough outside of that to make a pretty good case.
Black Ink |
Batting - 16 (177), Average HOFer ≈ 27 |
Gray Ink |
Batting - 143 (133), Average HOFer ≈ 144 |
Hall of Fame Monitor |
Batting - 175 (63), Likely HOFer ≈ 100 |
Hall of Fame Standards |
Batting - 59 (37), Average HOFer ≈ 50 |
JAWS |
First Base (15th): 61.8 career WAR | 46.6 7yr-peak WAR | 54.2 JAWS | 4.5 WAR/162 Average HOF 1B (out of 22): 66.0 career WAR | 42.4 7yr-peak WAR | 54.2 JAWS | 5.0 WAR/162 |
That's interesting. It looks like some voters are warming up to the Balco guys but not guys who were suspended. Otherwise how does anyone rationalize leaving Alex freaking Rodriguez off the list? Also I don't know who is voting for Ortiz but not Bonds and Clemens.
How is A.J. not on the list...he should be in the top 3.
Don’t say that within punching distance of a Giants fan.How is A.J. not on the list...he should be in the top 3.
Only 12% of the votes known. Apparently this guy compiles them as the writers publicize them, so it'll be fun to keep checking in...That's interesting. It looks like some voters are warming up to the Balco guys but not guys who were suspended. Otherwise how does anyone rationalize leaving Alex freaking Rodriguez off the list? Also I don't know who is voting for Ortiz but not Bonds and Clemens.
yeah I was just thinking maybe they were differentiating between players that were involved in the Balco thing and players that were suspended after they had all the rules in place.Only 12% of the votes known. Apparently this guy compiles them as the writers publicize them, so it'll be fun to keep checking in...
I doubt those three will remain at the top....
But perhaps they are realizing that everyone was taking steroids during that era and they shouldn't be punishing the ones that got caught....
But Bonds never “got caught”. I believe Clemens is also in that boat.Only 12% of the votes known. Apparently this guy compiles them as the writers publicize them, so it'll be fun to keep checking in...
I doubt those three will remain at the top....
But perhaps they are realizing that everyone was taking steroids during that era and they shouldn't be punishing the ones that got caught....
As of this morning, 14.8% reported and Ortiz (81%), Bonds and Clemens (75.9%) are all in. I have not been able to find gained/lost vote tally’s, though.