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2022 HOF Ballot

navamind

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Coors Field.

.345 / .441 / .607 / 1.408
.287 / .386 / .469 / .855

I had to do a double take there... I knew he had a big split, but I didn't think he had a 1.408 OPS at home. ;)
 

calsnowskier

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I had to do a double take there... I knew he had a big split, but I didn't think he had a 1.408 OPS at home. ;)
The playing conditions at Coors are a freaking joke. One of the reasons I subscribe to the argument that Nomo’s Nono there is one of the greatest regular season pitching performances in the history of the game.

To be fair to Helton, though, he was a good player. A .855 career OPS is very good. It just is not HOF worthy.
 

navamind

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Not going to argue that he was a totally different player away from Coors (or just about any Rockie either). Even so, we can't just ignore what he did do there. Whether you want to discount those stats or not, he played there. Even when you consider the sillyball era and Coors, his 133 OPS+ is still very good for a 1B. That figure is higher than the likes of Olerud, Palmeiro, Murray, and Keith Hernandez. Helton also rates as a very good defensive 1B and has a few Gold Gloves to back it up.

I think he's kinda borderline but I wouldn't complain if he got in. I do think his 2000-04 peak is pretty strong and I think he added enough outside of that to make a pretty good case.
 

calsnowskier

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Not going to argue that he was a totally different player away from Coors (or just about any Rockie either). Even so, we can't just ignore what he did do there. Whether you want to discount those stats or not, he played there. Even when you consider the sillyball era and Coors, his 133 OPS+ is still very good for a 1B. That figure is higher than the likes of Olerud, Palmeiro, Murray, and Keith Hernandez. Helton also rates as a very good defensive 1B and has a few Gold Gloves to back it up.

I think he's kinda borderline but I wouldn't complain if he got in. I do think his 2000-04 peak is pretty strong and I think he added enough outside of that to make a pretty good case.
I wouldn’t take my ball and go home if he got in. I will just never vote for him. I think he is on the border of being borderline.

issues in his favor…

- One team (and being the face of that organization)
- Absolutely god-mode numbers in a park that played like a video game on easy
- solid career numbers on the road (though not particularly glaring)
- Above average defense
- 46.5 WAR7
 

catman

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Here are some stats to look at from Baseballreference.com

Hall of Fame Statistics​


Black Ink
Batting - 16 (177), Average HOFer ≈ 27
Gray Ink
Batting - 143 (133), Average HOFer ≈ 144
Hall of Fame Monitor
Batting - 175 (63), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards
Batting - 59 (37), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS
First Base (15th):
61.8 career WAR | 46.6 7yr-peak WAR | 54.2 JAWS | 4.5 WAR/162
Average HOF 1B (out of 22):
66.0 career WAR | 42.4 7yr-peak WAR | 54.2 JAWS | 5.0 WAR/162
 

Cedrique

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steveringo

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That's interesting. It looks like some voters are warming up to the Balco guys but not guys who were suspended. Otherwise how does anyone rationalize leaving Alex freaking Rodriguez off the list? Also I don't know who is voting for Ortiz but not Bonds and Clemens.
Only 12% of the votes known. Apparently this guy compiles them as the writers publicize them, so it'll be fun to keep checking in...

I doubt those three will remain at the top....


But perhaps they are realizing that everyone was taking steroids during that era and they shouldn't be punishing the ones that got caught....
 

Cedrique

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Only 12% of the votes known. Apparently this guy compiles them as the writers publicize them, so it'll be fun to keep checking in...

I doubt those three will remain at the top....


But perhaps they are realizing that everyone was taking steroids during that era and they shouldn't be punishing the ones that got caught....
yeah I was just thinking maybe they were differentiating between players that were involved in the Balco thing and players that were suspended after they had all the rules in place.
 

calsnowskier

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Only 12% of the votes known. Apparently this guy compiles them as the writers publicize them, so it'll be fun to keep checking in...

I doubt those three will remain at the top....


But perhaps they are realizing that everyone was taking steroids during that era and they shouldn't be punishing the ones that got caught....
But Bonds never “got caught”. I believe Clemens is also in that boat.
 

calsnowskier

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A poll set up like the real ballots…

 

calsnowskier

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As of this morning, 14.8% reported and Ortiz (81%), Bonds and Clemens (75.9%) are all in. I have not been able to find gained/lost vote tally’s, though.

My guess is Ortiz will make it and Bonds/Clemens won’t. Clearly, the unofficial positive tests for Bonds and Clemens were accurate while the unofficial positive test for Ortiz was faulty… I guess…. But at least Ortiz played in the field while Bonds and Clemens did not… Right? Um…. Well, Ortiz put up numbers that were so far ahead of everyone else in the game (particularly compared to Bonds/Clemens) that he needs to get in despite his likely use of steroids…. Oh wait…


OK…

This is essentially a popularity contest and little more. I hate to have to acknowledge that the BBHOF has become a complete joke.
 
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