2021 NBA Offseason

[shopson67]

Agree that he’s not a max player. I would place his monetary value at a level of Draymond Green. He’s another guy who can do a lot of other valuable things that aren’t necessarily scoring. Green makes like 16-17 million. At the same time, Green was never ROTY and didn’t make 4 All Star teams in his first 5 seasons either. With that analysis Simmons is overpaid but not by much. Simmons makes 29 million a season. Based on what he’s done, he should probably be in the 20-24 million range. He becomes that 29 million dollar player if he makes the choice to unlock some of his god given ability. Using Green again, if Green wants to become a more accomplished scorer and shooter, he really doesn’t possess the skill set to change things. Simmons has that potential Green doesn’t have. The team that ultimately deals for Simmons is the team that believes they can unlock that potential.

What good is potential if you're scared to take a shot?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Only way he sniffs 20M+ is if it's a 1 year deal for a team looking to just lock in cap space for next season.

Yes was just thinking maybe on a short term but he was talking like he wanted 4 years

He had no tangible impact on LA yet thinks he should get paid like that

Insane

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Agree that he’s not a max player. I would place his monetary value at a level of Draymond Green. He’s another guy who can do a lot of other valuable things that aren’t necessarily scoring. Green makes like 16-17 million. At the same time, Green was never ROTY and didn’t make 4 All Star teams in his first 5 seasons either. With that analysis Simmons is overpaid but not by much. Simmons makes 29 million a season. Based on what he’s done, he should probably be in the 20-24 million range. He becomes that 29 million dollar player if he makes the choice to unlock some of his god given ability. Using Green again, if Green wants to become a more accomplished scorer and shooter, he really doesn’t possess the skill set to change things. Simmons has that potential Green doesn’t have. The team that ultimately deals for Simmons is the team that believes they can unlock that potential.

And someone will

As soon as Philly quits asking for the moon

 

[tlance]

What good is potential if you're scared to take a shot?

You do realize that even without shooting 3s, his playoff performance is an outlier right?

That is not who Ben Simmons has been up until now.

If 2022 Ben Simmons looks like the playoff version from this past year, then his value will plummet.

As of today, his value is based on the body of work which is actually quite strong, despite the flaws.

 

[tlance]

And someone will

As soon as Philly quits asking for the moon

That is why I don’t think now is the time to deal him.

Unless they work out something like the 3 team deal @msgkings322 suggested.

 

[fightinfunbags]

What good is potential if you're scared to take a shot?

In the eyes of the best of the best in their profession at developing talent it means a great deal when assessing a player at 24/25 years old. These people are naturally arrogant and believe they have the stuff to unlock a player. If a player doesn’t possess that potential the effort is wasted in only getting an incremental improvement. But for a kid with ability it can become like hitting a lottery ticket in taking that skill set next level. The truth of the matter is that the pairing with an elite 5 that needs to work the paint doesn’t mesh with Simmons game. He’s a great player in a bad spot for his game. There’s also a stubbornness on his part in assessing himself as already being good enough and not realizing that he still has much work to do.

 

[Black Adam]

good luck with that...

 

[fightinfunbags]

And someone will

As soon as Philly quits asking for the moon

It’s all a part of the game. I’ve posted this before so sorry that I’m sounding like a broken record. Simmons is the Sixers only expendable asset that can get them in the running for an elite star that wants out like Dame and Beal. They may not pull it off in the end and will have to settle with something deemed more reasonable. But that opportunity will be there. If he doesn’t get better at all, he’s an elite defender and an elite open court player great in transition. That’s not going to go away. If they fail in pursuit of Dame and Beal you’ll see him dealt for what you and I see as being closer to his value with the risk of maybe he doesn’t get better from here. So what you see now is Morey saying, the only way you can take this asset away from me that allows me to accomplish my big goal is by you blowing me away with an offer because once Simmons is gone, I have no access to Beal or Dame.

 

[CitySushi]

The problem with Ben Simmons is simply that he's just not aggressive and assertive. You don't need him to shoot 3's, or hell even freethrows very well. But the hesitancy and lack of confidence is the main issue with me. If he was attempting to get to the bucket like Giannis does (which is not outside his ability level) there'd be no issues with any team taking him. Him completely disappearing in the playoffs because he didn't want to be fouled was insane.

For all the shit I give Russ, one thing I'll never discount is his fearlessness. Sometimes that hurts him, but at the very least he's never going to stop coming at you. That's what Simmons needs.

 

[fightinfunbags]

That is why I don’t think now is the time to deal him.

Unless they work out something like the 3 team deal @msgkings322 suggested.

Where I agree with these guys is that the further away you get from this moment the potential he presents starts to diminish. It’s one more year of stagnation. Additionally, he’s not going to take the necessary steps he needs to take in Philly. Bad fit coupled with the idea that he’s still thinking he’s the shit. He needs to get knocked down a beg or two and humble himself to understand that his game needs a lot of work.

 

[fightinfunbags]

The problem with Ben Simmons is simply that he's just not aggressive and assertive. You don't need him to shoot 3's, or hell even freethrows very well. But the hesitancy and lack of confidence is the main issue with me. If he was attempting to get to the bucket like Giannis does (which is not outside his ability level) there'd be no issues with any team taking him. Him completely disappearing in the playoffs because he didn't want to be fouled was insane.

For all the shit I give Russ, one thing I'll never discount is his fearlessness. Sometimes that hurts him, but at the very least he's never going to stop coming at you. That's what Simmons needs.

Now put Giannis on a team with the best 5 in basketball. You think he’s going to be doing the same things in getting to the rim? I agree with you in assessing the need for Simmons to be more aggressive. However, that really doesn’t flush with Embiid on the floor. The Sixers problem is that they hedge. They never get a fully dialed in down hill Simmons while also having too many sets that pull Embiid off the block and have him screen on the perimeter. Embiid can make outside shots but that’s not what makes him elite and a problem in opposing team’s game plan.

 

[shopson67]

He had no tangible impact on LA

I wouldn't say that. His ability to get into passing lanes defensively really provided a spark and he was basically the only backcourt Laker that could drive to the hoop at will. He was inconsistent and not strong from 3, but he definitely was better than replacement level for them when available. The 2 COVID vacations certainly hurt his case.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yes was just thinking maybe on a short term but he was talking like he wanted 4 years

He had no tangible impact on LA yet thinks he should get paid like that

Insane

To be completely fair to him, much of his play on the court last year could be explained with the injuries and resultant constantly changing role.

The bigger issue for him, imo, is the number of teams that he has played on in a relatively short period of time and the fact that he apparently was a locker room problem. From what I heard, his Lakers teammates just don't like him.

Funny that the 20+ million for 4 years that he says he wants and now may not get, is pretty much exactly what he turned down from the Lakers during the season. lol

 

[shopson67]

Now put Giannis on a team with the best 5 in basketball. You think he’s going to be doing the same things in getting to the rim? I agree with you in assessing the need for Simmons to be more aggressive. However, that really doesn’t flush with Embiid on the floor. The Sixers problem is that they hedge. They never get a fully dialed in down hill Simmons while also having too many sets that pull Embiid off the block and have him screen on the perimeter. Embiid can make outside shots but that’s not what makes him elite and a problem in opposing team’s game plan.

That's why your main ball handler and distributor is typically a perimeter player with at least a midrange jumper, if not 3 range. Passing forwards are a real bonus (like Dray), but having a non-shooter playing on the perimeter really hurts the team as a whole Simmons has been playing out of position since day 1 IMO, should be a point forward like Dray and stay inside the arc.

 

[Shanemansj13]

The problem with Ben Simmons is simply that he's a gigantic pussy

FIFY

 

[Shanemansj13]

 

[Shanemansj13]

 

[Shanemansj13]

 

[shopson67]

If he had other takers, Isaiah would likely be flying middle fingers to the Celtics after they dumped him unceremoniously.

 

[tlance]

That's why your main ball handler and distributor is typically a perimeter player with at least a midrange jumper, if not 3 range. Passing forwards are a real bonus (like Dray), but having a non-shooter playing on the perimeter really hurts the team as a whole Simmons has been playing out of position since day 1 IMO, should be a point forward like Dray and stay inside the arc.

In today’s game, any non-shooter hurts spacing no matter what position they play.

I would make the case that it is a lot easier to work a primary ballhandler non-shooter than it is a wing. That is the worst.