2021-2022 NBA Season

[bksballer89]

Fixed it for you

Such a gentleman

 

[fightinfunbags]

Such a gentleman

I got you

 

[shopson67]

He needs to get a trainer to help him take better care of his body so he can play longer.

He needs the right voice in his ear for sure. For most big guys, they assume getting in better shape means hitting the weights. He doesn't need more bulk, especially in today's NBA. He'd be much better served to get leaner and develop his core, which would allow him to keep that agility and skill set that makes him unique.

 

[shopson67]

Give me those defensive stats again. Those are my favorites! In that analysis, Steph Curry is a better defender than Draymond Green because carry the one and divide by the pimple on his ass and then work it through the average of the celsius grade in the Colorado Rockies on December the 13th.

Comparing different positions like Curry and Green is much more difficult. Jokic to Embiid is much more direct, with similar size and playing the same position.

 

[Shanemansj13]

 

[bksballer89]

 

[shopson67]

Vegas disagrees

Vegas isn't putting on odds on who is the better player; they are putting odds on who will get more votes. Plus, an NBA player from the Sixers will always get more exposure and recognition for the same or even lesser play than an NBA player in Denver.

If the more deserving player always won, the Vegas argument might hold more water.

 

[Shanemansj13]

The '21 draft class, wait a couple years and it could be a great one.

Mobley, Green, Cunningham, Barnes, Giddey, Wagner, Duarte. A couple of late rounds too that could be really good players

 

[Shanemansj13]

I will say the Cavs should pick up Willie Cauley-Stein but they have Ed Davis. Plus Mobley will be playing a lot of the 5 which I think only helps his development, gonna have trouble with big centers but so was JA. Ed Davis is a TT type of player-works hard, great effort and very good rebounder. Ugly FT shot but ohh well.

 

[Wamu]

I will say the Cavs should pick up Willie Cauley-Stein but they have Ed Davis. Plus Mobley will be playing a lot of the 5 which I think only helps his development, gonna have trouble with big centers but so was JA. Ed Davis is a TT type of player-works hard, great effort and very good rebounder. Ugly FT shot but ohh well.

It sucks that Allen broke a finger last night and is out indefinitely.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I will say the Cavs should pick up Willie Cauley-Stein but they have Ed Davis. Plus Mobley will be playing a lot of the 5 which I think only helps his development, gonna have trouble with big centers but so was JA. Ed Davis is a TT type of player-works hard, great effort and very good rebounder. Ugly FT shot but ohh well.

Wish I could give you a WC-S scouting report but the Sixers gave him no run. It seems now that they were just carving out a roster spot to sign DeAndre Jordan.

 

[bksballer89]

 

[fightinfunbags]

He makes that offense go. The ball moves better when he plays.

 

[Shanemansj13]

It sucks that Allen broke a finger last night and is out indefinitely.

Yeah but the 6-8 week timeline seems a bit unrealistic. It's a non-thumb and non-shooting hand injury for a center. Don't know the severity so that is the issue but I'm thinking 2-4 weeks

 

[shopson67]

It isn't even the stat itself that matters. It's that it's unheard of for a Center to lead the league in scoring these days. Jokic won MVP because Embiid missed too many games last year. I'm fixated on a holistic approach to who the better player is. As I've said many times, both guys are elite offensive players who impact the game in different ways. One guy is an elite defensive player and the other guy is just a guy on the defensive end.

Lets look at some other stats then:

VORP (victories over replacement player): Embiid 4.9, Jokic 7.6 (leads league, 2nd year in a row)
WS (Win shares): Embiid 9.2, Jokic 11.7 (leads league, 2nd year in a row)
OWS (Offensive Win Shares): Embiid 6.2, Jokic 8.2 (leads league, 2nd year in a row)
DWS (Defensive Win Shares): Embiid 3.0, Jokic 3.6
WS/48 (Win shares per 48 min): Embiid .262, Jokic .299 (leads league, 2nd year in a row)
BPM (box plus/minus): Embiid 9.5, Jokic 13.9 (leads league, 2nd year in a row)
OBPM (offensive box plus/minus): Embiid 7.4, Jokic 9.2 (leads league, 2nd year in a row)
DBPM (defensive box plus/minus): Embiid 2.1, Jokic 4.7 (leads league)

All of this despite Embiid having a larger usage rate (36.8 to Jokic's 31.1).

Most similar player comps for win shares:
Embiid - Daugherty, Brook Lopez, Okur, Nater, Divac, Eakins, Paultz, Noah, Valunciunas, Adebayo
Jokic - Lanier, Shaq, Cowens, Dwight, Hakeem, Russell, Bellamy, Issel, KAT, McAdoo

 

[fightinfunbags]

Lets look at some other stats then:

VORP (victories over replacement player): Embiid 4.9, Jokic 7.6 (leads league, 2nd year in a row)
WS (Win shares): Embiid 9.2, Jokic 11.7 (leads league, 2nd year in a row)
OWS (Offensive Win Shares): Embiid 6.2, Jokic 8.2 (leads league, 2nd year in a row)
DWS (Defensive Win Shares): Embiid 3.0, Jokic 3.6
WS/48 (Win shares per 48 min): Embiid .262, Jokic .299 (leads league, 2nd year in a row)
BPM (box plus/minus): Embiid 9.5, Jokic 13.9 (leads league, 2nd year in a row)
OBPM (offensive box plus/minus): Embiid 7.4, Jokic 9.2 (leads league, 2nd year in a row)
DBPM (defensive box plus/minus): Embiid 2.1, Jokic 4.7 (leads league)

All of this despite Embiid having a larger usage rate (36.8 to Jokic's 31.1).

Most similar player comps for win shares:
Embiid - Daugherty, Brook Lopez, Okur, Nater, Divac, Eakins, Paultz, Noah, Valunciunas, Adebayo
Jokic - Lanier, Shaq, Cowens, Dwight, Hakeem, Russell, Bellamy, Issel, KAT, McAdoo

FTR, you can take any defensive statistic that says Jokic > Embiid on the defensive side of the floor and throw it in the trash. When you watch both players play do you think they’re even comparable defensively?

 

[shopson67]

It sucks that Allen broke a finger last night and is out indefinitely.

Cavs can't catch a break this year with injuries.

 

[shopson67]

FTR, you can take any defensive statistic that says Jokic > Embiid on the defensive side of the floor and throw it in the trash. When you watch both players play do you think they’re even comparable defensively?

When one player is LEADING THE LEAGUE in most of those stats, they hold some credence over your eye test.

 

[shopson67]

When one player is LEADING THE LEAGUE in most of those stats, they hold some credence over your eye test.

I'd love to point to head to head this year, but will have to wait until next Monday. Embiid missed the first matchup in November. Jokic went for 30/7/11, but that was against Drummond (4/1/6).

 

[fightinfunbags]

When one player is LEADING THE LEAGUE in most of those stats, they hold some credence over your eye test.

Not in my mind. It is a kick in the dick response to blind embrace of all analytics. Statistics naturally have holes in their construction and when you see players like Jokic Booker Curry etc…creeping into the top 20 in the league in a metric despite every basketball fan knowing these players aren’t elite defensive players the response should be to take those stats with a grain of salt.

It’s telling that you didn’t want to answer my question so I’ll ask again. When you watch these two players play defense who is the better player?