2021-2022 NBA Season

[tlance]

I'm making your case because Lebron has a home and does a ton of offseason work in LA so he chose LA......in a discussion about building WITHOUT Lebron? In addition, no one but Lebron has wanted to come there as a FA in a long time.

Been a while, but ya gotta love this forum.

Yeah.

How many superstars have second homes in Cleveland, Milwaukee or Sacramento?

You are making this about something it isn’t.

LeBron went to the Lakers because of LA. Not because of their core pieces, or their management that was in disarray at the time.

 

[tlance]

Yep.....and still a rebuild that Pelinka might have made even more difficult. Pre Pelinka how has the glitz/glam done in convincing guys not named Lebron to come to LA. OK, the Lakers, as PG and Kawhi did choose LA.

More than a city like Cleveland.

 

[trojanfan12]

Those are costs that are going to be born down the road and limit the Lakers down the road. These are issues that would not have existed way back when- the team could just outspend everyone- and that is no longer the case because A. other teams have a ton of money too now, and B. There is a salary cap, max contracts , etc.

Except that none of that has anything to do with the actual discussion which is that most max players are going to choose a destination city over a non-destination city the majority of the time.

None of it has anything to do with how the Lakers are anyone else chooses to use their cap space. A team in a destination city and at least competent management is going to have an easier time landing a max level player than a team in a non-destination city with cap space and competent management.

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah.

How many superstars have second homes in Cleveland, Milwaukee or Sacramento?

You are making this about something it isn’t.

LeBron went to the Lakers because of LA. Not because of their core pieces, or their management that was in disarray at the time.

Never said they'd go to Cleveland or other places, but excellent deflection. Try to stay focused/concentrate......I'm saying FAs not named Lebron have not exactly gone out of their way to join the Lakers in a long time. This is a discussion about Lebron being gone. Not like they will have a high pick soon after he leaves (and likely will still be short some picks).

Hello?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Except that none of that has anything to do with the actual discussion which is that most max players are going to choose a destination city over a non-destination city the majority of the time.

None of it has anything to do with how the Lakers are anyone else chooses to use their cap space. A team in a destination city and at least competent management is going to have an easier time landing a max level player than a team in a non-destination city with cap space and competent management.

maybe if they leave, but it sure seems lately that most of the guys stay. And even if they do leave that is no guarantee of anything.

Toronto and Milwaukee are hardly destination cities and they have won a title, while the Clippers and Knicks have won fuck-all.

San Antonio is definitely not a destination city, and Golden State is not a "tier 1" by any means.

LAL couldnt get anyone to take their money for years, finally got LeBron, and Kawhi still said no.

good management means more than market at this point in the NBA. And I gotta tell ya- Rob Pelinka aint Jerry West. Every time Russell Westbrook clanks a triple teamed layup is an obvious reminder of that.

Getting fleeced by the Wizards is not easy to do.

 

[dtgold88]

More than a city like Cleveland.

Cool...not about Cleveland. It's about how quickly LA can get back to being a contender and your faith in them. But since you keep bringing up Cleveland, last rebuild they made the playoffs and were a contender by year 5 (quicker than LA's last rebuild). This one with no Lebron looks like we can make playoffs in year 4. Title contender? we'll see.

 

[trojanfan12]

In terms of the Lakers, Sushi hit it on the money. AD and Lebron are fine but RW is the move that ruined everything. They had to pick up cheap pieces that didn’t fit. The piece(s) that did fit to an extent were traded or could not be resigned. RW just doesn’t fit but like he said, not all his fault with the pieces around him.

Main point, RW needs to go and if this is possible it would be for a downgrade which is perfectly fine bc it wouldn’t be a downgrade for the Lakers to this point.

The problem is that Westbrook is virtually untradeable. But I agree, if he can be moved, even for what would technically be a "lesser player" it could still be good for the Lakers and improve the team if that player fits better. I don't know who they can get and it'll likely cost them THT as well.

As I've said though, unless some team wants to blow it up, but still sell tickets, they're likely going to have to see if they can figure it out with Westbrook.

 

[dtgold88]

Except that none of that has anything to do with the actual discussion which is that most max players are going to choose a destination city over a non-destination city the majority of the time.

None of it has anything to do with how the Lakers are anyone else chooses to use their cap space. A team in a destination city and at least competent management is going to have an easier time landing a max level player than a team in a non-destination city with cap space and competent management.

agree with that first part.....but when was the last time a stud FA chose to go to LA who was not named Lebron (who they wont have in this discussion)?

do the Lakers have competent management?

 

[WiggyRuss]

The problem is that Westbrook is virtually untradeable. But I agree, if he can be moved, even for what would technically be a "lesser player" it could still be good for the Lakers and improve the team if that player fits better. I don't know who they can get and it'll likely cost them THT as well.

As I've said though, unless some team wants to blow it up, but still sell tickets, they're likely going to have to see if they can figure it out with Westbrook.

Pelinka wont do it.

A. because LeBron wont let him

and

B. he doesnt have the balls to trade Westbrook, less than a year after acquiring him, for less than he gave up to get him- which is inevitable.

 

[WiggyRuss]

agree with that first part.....but when was the last time a stud FA chose to go to LA who was not named Lebron (who they wont have in this discussion)?

do the Lakers have competent management?

I would not say Pelinka is totally incompetent, but I def. put him in the lower half of the league. Lower third might be pushing it since there are a lot of teams that are totally clueless.

he made an abundance of mistakes at last year's trade deadline and this offseason. I dont really see a move that has worked in the last year and a half.

 

[trojanfan12]

maybe if they leave, but it sure seems lately that most of the guys stay. And even if they do leave that is no guarantee of anything.

Toronto and Milwaukee are hardly destination cities and they have won a title, while the Clippers and Knicks have won fuck-all.

San Antonio is definitely not a destination city, and Golden State is not a "tier 1" by any means.

LAL couldnt get anyone to take their money for years, finally got LeBron, and Kawhi still said no.

good management means more than market at this point in the NBA. And I gotta tell ya- Rob Pelinka aint Jerry West. Every time Russell Westbrook clanks a triple teamed layup is an obvious reminder of that.

Getting fleeced by the Wizards is not easy to do.

Absolutely none of this disproves anything that has been said. If anything, it bolsters the points that have already been made against what you're trying to prove.

It has already been acknowledged that the advantages destination cities have isn't as big as it used to be. However, it still exists.

Every example you have presented has been used already and it still doesn't your point.

Toronto and Milwaukee got competent management and also required multiple injuries to other teams to get their titles. Golden State was horribly mismanaged for years, then did an excellent job acquiring young players and developing them.

The Lakers couldn't sign anyone because they were horribly mismanaged by Short Buss.

Everything you mentioned has already been brought up and none of it changes the fact that a destination city with competent management will always have an advantage over non-destination cities.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Best managed teams?

The Bucks did an excellent job getting Holliday and building around Giannis.

The Suns have done an excellent job

the Nuggets have been amazing- you cant fault them for Porter Jr. and Murray being hurt.

I think very quietly the Raptors are very well run.

The Warriors have done a great job outside of using the #2 pick on Wiseman- which is a major swing and miss.

You cant discount the Cavs putting together the core they have had with the picks they have had. They have drafted very well and Allen was a great get. Rubio an under the radar nice trade, etc.

Grizz have put a nice scrappy roster together.

Utah has gone a great job. Chicago's new GM had an amazing off season.

the worst?

Sacramento seems forever hopeless. Dallas has done very little around Luka if you ask me. Portland seems content with just letting Lillard's years run by. Knicks and Wiz are the epitome of bad. Pelicans seem bad- but Zion eating himself to death doesnt help. Orlando has not drafted impact guys with many opportunities- though many are still so young.

 

[dtgold88]

I would not say Pelinka is totally incompetent, but I def. put him in the lower half of the league. Lower third might be pushing it since there are a lot of teams that are totally clueless.

he made an abundance of mistakes at last year's trade deadline and this offseason. I dont really see a move that has worked in the last year and a half.

also wouldn't say completely incompetent nor that he couldn't be better than he is....but so far he hasn't shown much.

 

[trojanfan12]

agree with that first part.....but when was the last time a stud FA chose to go to LA who was not named Lebron (who they wont have in this discussion)?

As has been pointed out, when you re-sign your own max level FA's you are signing max level FA's. So...Shaq, Kobe, Pau Gasol, Lebron James and Anthony Davis have all chosen the Lakers.

 

[dtgold88]

Absolutely none of this disproves anything that has been said. If anything, it bolsters the points that have already been made against what you're trying to prove.

It has already been acknowledged that the advantages destination cities have isn't as big as it used to be. However, it still exists.

Every example you have presented has been used already and it still doesn't your point.

Toronto and Milwaukee got competent management and also required multiple injuries to other teams to get their titles. Golden State was horribly mismanaged for years, then did an excellent job acquiring young players and developing them.

The Lakers couldn't sign anyone because they were horribly mismanaged by Short Buss.

Everything you mentioned has already been brought up and none of it changes the fact that a destination city with competent management will always have an advantage over non-destination cities.

I still laugh whenever you rip Buss but make every excuse in the world for Pelinka it seems.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I love Presti in OKC, but who knows how that turns out. I wouldnt bet against him- and I think 2/3rds of the NBA would take him in an instant.

Morey in Philly hasnt been there long and his legacy there will be contingent on Simmons.

 

[dtgold88]

As has been pointed out, when you re-sign your own max level FA's you are signing max level FA's. So...Shaq, Kobe, Pau Gasol, Lebron James and Anthony Davis have all chosen the Lakers.

But they have had opportunities with max money available to bring in other max guys from outside the organization. Odd you wont answer. Let me try....was it shaq?

 

[trojanfan12]

Pelinka wont do it.

A. because LeBron wont let him

and

B. he doesnt have the balls to trade Westbrook, less than a year after acquiring him, for less than he gave up to get him- which is inevitable.

Yes and no. I don't think he trades Westbrook as long as Lebron believes he can make it work. It's hard to argue against Lebron's track record of making things work. I don't know if he's the greatest of all time, but he's the greatest of all time at making it work with ill fitting pieces. To be fair, pretty much any GM isn't going to move a player that Lebron wants.

As for B...maybe, maybe not. If he believed it would improve the team, I think he would. But, we're likely not going to get to find out because of A.

 

[WiggyRuss]

also wouldn't say completely incompetent nor that he couldn't be better than he is....but so far he hasn't shown much.

I'd put Pelinka right over the incompetent GM's. In his defense- he won a title- albiet in "the Freak Show"

To go against him- having LeBron used to be an automatic ticket to the Finals- and it looks like 3 out of the 4 years LeBron is there/will be there, they have (i) missed the playoffs, (ii) bounced first round, and (iii) this year does not look promising to say the least. Right now- if they dont get a 4 or 5 seed- id bet on them being bounced first round. If they get a 4 or 5 seed they will prob win 1 series.

Pelinka's last year and half has been BAD.

 

[WiggyRuss]

But they have had opportunities with max money available to bring in other max guys from outside the organization. Odd you wont answer. Let me try....was it shaq?

Aldridge said no.

it is certainly not an automatic anymore- that is for sure.